Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Maybe it was just Zen, or maybe I'm hallucinating. I dunno I actually thought there were like 4 votes on Nabe or something.

 

[ranmaru]

oh my god you suck
Vote: Nich


KK, I don't think there are votes on me aside from Nich's? And I think I'm the only vote on him as well. I'll be back tomorrow but I'm sure you'll dutifully check for me.

Wow nabe wtf

 

[ranmaru]

Everyone in the early parts of Day 1 (and by early I'm guessing in the vicinity of the first 1000) had Nabe as obvtown except for Nich and I just about.

But things have changed since you/July/us aren't realistic choices for lynches anymore. So now people seem to be flocking to a Nabe wagon. Which is weird.

yeah. I had Nabe town because of the early battle vs the SK.

But then I kinda went null. Then notice his willingness to go with many options.

Remember you asking him for reads? "July, this dude, another dude, and... you"

Right?

So I ask him, and he says "July, this dude, another dude, and... you"

BUT. He never mentioned me before. The time I asked, he didn't include you in there. That's what I don't like.

Oh and his nich vote. AND AGAIN.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Oh baby, time for me to take on burden of proof for your scum read on me.

I was talking about Zen.

 

[July]

July, would you be willing to consider DG town?
Do you think it's worth the risk of lynching him to clear up whether he's the indy or not?

KK, same question.

I talked about it with X1, and I just don't see why an indy hunter-type would bother to let his victim know he's after them, especially when he was under no pressure to claim. It would just make it harder for him to win.

I would be willing to lynch someone other than DeGrey toDay and see how his play is toMorrow. I won't just up and switch him from my biggest scum pick to town though.

I have had a scum read on DeGrey for the longest time, so I think it would be worth the risk, especially considering that going for a different lynch means putting someone else to L-1 and risking outing another town pr. T-Block is also a scum read for me so I'm not so concerned about his wagon, but if one of my town reads was being pushed I would deff rather risk a DG lynch.

I go out of my way? Not sure I have, since it's a hydra of two competent players who certainly haven't shown signs of needing any support.

I was hoping to rely on Swiss or Kuz/Laundry but it turns out one or both slots are scum, and neither are here. I've been taking that read in hand for a while now. He's town.

Out of your way for someone who said they were going to let someone else read the player slot, but then says in response to .jpg's suspicions of DeGrey for his reaction to the crumb that he is wrong which meant clearly you weren't concerned with .jpg's read on DeGrey. But if you say that you've taken that read into your hands for while now, your reaction and own criticism does make sense.

Which of Swiss and Kuz/Laundry do you think is most likely to be scum?

V/LA tomorrow, trip to the city to spend some time with a wonderful person.

Unvote
Vote: T-Block

 

[T-block]

**** off you guys. Why do I always have to deal with wagons while V/LA?

Ran is scum. I only skimmed, but I'm pretty sure his hop on my wagon is scummy as ****, yet no one's on him? Someone please prove me wrong.

He also says "I'll double vote if you're one short, only if you need me to" or something stupid like that. Why wouldn't he double vote? -_- What is his motivation for saying that?

I'm fine with KK/July for now, as the mason claim makes sense. I'm not going to completely clear them yet, but they don't need to die toDay.

@July: SK lynch was fine for me because he was null and had become a lurker. I'm pretty sure I gave that reasoning before - I'll try to find it if you don't believe me. Stop selectively looking at posts/twisting my posts into a scum case. I had solid reads on you, Ran, and KK, but when you claimed masons I didn't see a need to lynch you D1. I STAYED ON MY RAN READ THOUGH, and maintained that I wanted him dead. You keep telling me I'm sidelining, but you conveniently ignore where I actually do stuff.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Factoring hectopascals cannot take a break from posting in this game to INFINITY.

 

[T-block]

@Nabe: In a game that doesn't exit, Ryker pushed me hard for dropping pressure on my top scum read, jumping my vote around, and pressure an inactive when i had a scum case to push. Reyth was guilty of all of those. After DG's answer though, I re-read the other game and saw that the situations were different, so I was fine with his answer. Nothing to be gained really from my original question.

 

[T-block]

Zen, if I told you I wasn't vig, would you still not want to lynch me?

 

[Nicholas1024]

So Nabe, you can't answer my argument and instead try to dismiss it with a little mudslinging?

Also, thanks for summing up what little reasoning you do have for your vote in that one post.

@Ran
I don't see it as odd that more people are turning to Nabe. I've been hammering him as scum for a while now, and I think it's gradually been sinking in, one person at a time. (Plus, the fact that many more preferred lynches have been eliminated as a possibility makes him a more appealing option to people.)

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ebwop
That last bit was @ KK, not Ran.

 

[Xivii]

Zen, if I told you I wasn't vig, would you still not want to lynch me?

Yeah .
Unless you claimed something that didn't fit your crumb.

 

[Reyth]

Because I don't support a Nabe or a T-Block wagon, I am forced to be more aggressive.

I am willing to lynch PLSD if the wagon forms.

Unvote, Vote Nich

Still catching up here.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Nich

 

[Nicholas1024]

Zen, explain your vote. Previously you thought Nabe was scummy, what's changed?

 

[Overswarm]

Dear all that is good, it is page 59 on D1 and Zen has request a replacement. o_o

Going to try to convince someone to do so when I get back home, still in Cali

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Zen, if I told you I wasn't vig, would you still not want to lynch me?

matches up with your question in pre-game.

unvote

 

[Nicholas1024]

I feel sorry for that replacement.

Don't like the timing. A vote on me with no explanation, and immediately requesting replacement? Odd.

 

[videogames.jpg]

Zen...

Kinda want to lynch him just so nobody has to replace, but maybe not.

J, who should I lynch toDay? :3

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I would AoM(angel of mercy) lynch one of Zen/PLSD however I want TB.

VG, I say you should lynch TB with us.

Otherwise one of Zen/PLSD is going.

 

[Xivii]

I actually requested that last night. I can stay if you guys want me to, I'm just not going to be much help.

Nich nothing changed. I voted you because Reyth voted you.

 

[Xivii]

I really like my role though, I don't want it to be wasted on an inactive lynch :/

 

[Reyth]

"And when elected, I promise free taxes and ice cream for all!"

 

[Nicholas1024]

Nich nothing changed. I voted you because Reyth voted you.

I have to say, this left me speechless.

 

[Reyth]

"I however promise plenty of speeches!"

 

[Xivii]

Me = Not reading.
Me = Not best person to decide what to do.
Me = Strong town read on Reyth
Reyth = Involved & keeping up with game.

I'm sure the both of you can work your way from there.

 

[Reyth]

"In fact, Zen will make a perfect VP!"

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I was talking about Zen.

This makes 1000x more sense, okay.

Out of your way for someone who said they were going to let someone else read the player slot, but then says in response to .jpg's suspicions of DeGrey for his reaction to the crumb that he is wrong which meant clearly you weren't concerned with .jpg's read on DeGrey.

This is one event. You said "everytime something is posted against him" which implies multiple events. Which is it?

Which of Swiss and Kuz/Laundry do you think is most likely to be scum?

Swiss scumlean, PTSD null. Waiting for Kuz to post, Laundry always sets my cockles up. Also, Ryker will get a scumread on Laundry if he's scum. Happy to see them go if they don't work it out.

@Nabe: In a game that doesn't exit, Ryker pushed me hard for dropping pressure on my top scum read, jumping my vote around, and pressure an inactive when i had a scum case to push. Reyth was guilty of all of those. After DG's answer though, I re-read the other game and saw that the situations were different, so I was fine with his answer. Nothing to be gained really from my original question.

okay
Who's your second scum read?

So Nabe, you can't answer my argument and instead try to dismiss it with a little mudslinging?

My feelings at the time. Obviously I'm going to respond to you today.

Don't like the timing. A vote on me with no explanation, and immediately requesting replacement? Odd.

oh my god you suck
part 2 electric boogaloo

 

[Nicholas1024]

Me = Not reading.
Me = Not best person to decide what to do.
Me = Strong town read on Reyth
Reyth = Involved & keeping up with game.

I'm sure the both of you can work your way from there.

I suppose that makes some sense. I just despise sheeping in general, as it's almost always a bad idea to blindly follow someone else.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

MY READS IMPORTANT UPDATE (August 1st 2011, 15:50:07 E.S.T.)

Will be pushing: Nich
If Nich suddenly becomes a clear: VG, SK
Would vote at deadline / dirtbags: PTSD, T-block, Ran
Also: Swiss
Town: Other people
Zen: Zen

Note: formal write-up to follow under order of King Nich Nich (oops, wrong game)

 

[Nicholas1024]

And Nabe completely ignores the request for reasoning. For example, how on earth would you explain video's recent behavior as scum, pushing the guy who said he'd governor save video if video got lynched. Genuine town scum hunting, NO scum motivation.


Note that Nabe's well positioned to hop onto ANY likely wagon aside from himself. VG/SK were likely wagons before the day reset, I've got the most votes at the moment, and all 3 of PLSD, T-block, and Ran have been mentioned as options.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe's pulled a huge straw man on me here, and I can prove it. The following series of quotes recall how exactly this argument came up, and should make clear my intentions.

okay

Spoiler

This is what starts it off, where I mention that X1's list of reads + reasoning made me feel better about video's slot, and I mention that Nabe hasn't done anything like that all game (that is, give reads with REASONING and try to get them lynched.)

Re: the bolded, yes, I have. And we've discussed it again and again. You.

Nabe asks if full read lists are standard town play.

I ask you if you think they are, and if in your opinion every townie should post one, which many posts of yours suggest. These were yes or no questions.

I explain that it's not the read list but rather the reasoning being legitimate and showing a desire to scum hunt. (The implication is that the read lists themselves are more of a null tell.)

This isn't a yes or no answer though, sadly. It doesn't answer the question I posed to you and stands in contrast against your posts throughout the game ("Nabe hasn't posted a reads list which is scummy"). Here, you voice a refinement of that, one that sets forth fair ideas, but you've been hounding me on the original premise.

He claims it doesn't answer his question. (He's not interested in why I have a town read on video.)

It doesn't answer my question. I asked you this: "So in your opinion, posting full read lists is a strong standard town play?" And you responded by telling me VG's reads seemed legitimate, weren't called for, and showcased a desire to scumhunt. I'd disagree on those counts but that's beside the point, which is that your response isn't to my question but to one you made up in your head.

I give my position, that giving reads doesn't make someone town, but that withholding them is a red flag. Note the subtlety here. I'm not insisting on a FULL read list, I just want the player's strongest scum picks and important town picks, along with some reasoning. This is something I've been consistent with all through the blasted game.

"Listing reads is null, not doing so is scummy." Your response boils down to this. There's no subtlety whatsoever; you use the word 'list', which we both understand to mean a full reads list (since I posed my question with that phrase 'full reads list' in it and you don't say anything to the contrary). Throughout the game you've been consistent in the same empty demand (no full reads list) and just now you're telling me instead that you meant a list of some reads with reasoning. (Which is a very reasonable request, or would be if I hadn't already done just that throughout the game.)

He pretends I'm asking for a full read list, and calls the idea anti-town. Now, disliking full read lists isn't a scum tell on it's own. (That was the Dgames stance on the issue for a while.) However, he's completely straw manned my argument, I want his main reads + reasoning, he pretends I want a full read list and tells me to look through the thread for something he hasn't given.

What Nabe's doing here is he's trying to shift the burden of proof on me over one simple request.[/quote]
You were asking for a full reads list. Disliking them isn't a scum tell at all, much less on its own, and that you defend it as any semblance of a scum tell assures me that I'm not wrong, that you were looking for a full reads list and despite saying otherwise, feel a need presently to defend it as a scum tell and thus yourself.

Re: the bolded, what haven't I given? This is unclear.

You have the burden of proof because you're the one saying I'm scum. How is this anything but valid?

I want him to showcase his desire to hunt and lynch scum via quotes.

The ONLY instance he has of doing so is his push on me, and if you've read my case, you know he was lurking before that. If he hadn't come up with some sort of case, he'd have looked quite suspicious for inactivity. Even he's basically admitted this.

Nothing to say to this since I've already responded to this point in detail.

Also, Nabe knows me going back through and pointing out the reads he hasn't given via reasoning is pointless. I'm not after a list of reads for every single player in the game. I'm after a few scum reads with some reasoning behind them, and he can't give them.

It's not pointless to you: finding the reads that you think I've left without reasoning would further your aim of lynching me! It's not pointless to me: I want you to defend what I think is a baseless allegation with factual evidence if it exists! I'm challenging you to come up with a basis for your claims and you repeatedly refuse; what else can I think but that you're scum?

Meanwhile, I've said that you'll get a full reads list from me because my reads are already out in-thread, with reasoning, and such a post would only be a conglomeration of those reads.

His only strong scum read through 2000 posts is me.

nah

And I'd like to note that almost ALL the case on me is based on either my supposedly "bad" push on him (Classic oh-my-gosh you suck, my case has been called townie by just about everyone BUT him), or Reyth's old case, which focuses completely on my play from posts #155 and before.

No. Reyth's reasoning and his pointing out a scumslip led to me thinking you're scum, and I dropped my vote on you. It was not an OMGUS in the slightest, since you didn't think I was scum at all until after I had voted for you.

oops I guess not

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

And Nabe completely ignores the request for reasoning. For example, how on earth would you explain video's recent behavior as scum, pushing the guy who said he'd governor save video if video got lynched. Genuine town scum hunting, NO scum motivation.

How do you feel about what I've said about VG recently?

Note that Nabe's well positioned to hop onto ANY likely wagon aside from himself. VG/SK were likely wagons before the day reset, I've got the most votes at the moment, and all 3 of PLSD, T-block, and Ran have been mentioned as options.

Look at any read I've given all game. It's cool, I'll wait.

 

[Nicholas1024]

okay

Re: the bolded, yes, I have. And we've discussed it again and again. You.

Right, so you had exactly ONE strong scum read through 2000+ posts. And that one scum read happened to be an extremely safe wagon that a lot of people had pushed. I'm not buying it.

I ask you if you think they are, and if in your opinion every townie should post one, which many posts of yours suggest. These were yes or no questions.

Tell me then, what is the point of the question? I thought you were trying to figure out if video's read list was why I thought he was town. So WHAT'S THE POINT HERE?

This isn't a yes or no answer though, sadly. It doesn't answer the question I posed to you and stands in contrast against your posts throughout the game ("Nabe hasn't posted a reads list which is scummy"). Here, you voice a refinement of that, one that sets forth fair ideas, but you've been hounding me on the original premise.

Hmph. More strawmanning. Here's my position once and for all.

"Nabe has no desire to hunt scum. The only time he posts reads is when he's asked for them, and even then there's no reasoning or push to lynch his scum reads. The only exception to this was his push on me, which was made necessary by activity reasons, and was indeed a very safe push."

It doesn't answer my question. I asked you this: "So in your opinion, posting full read lists is a strong standard town play?" And you responded by telling me VG's reads seemed legitimate, weren't called for, and showcased a desire to scumhunt. I'd disagree on those counts but that's beside the point, which is that your response isn't to my question but to one you made up in your head.

Might be beside the point of me VS you, but I'd just love to hear your reasoning of why they supposedly aren't legitimate and scummy. I've asked that question before, but you've dodged it.

"Listing reads is null, not doing so is scummy." Your response boils down to this. There's no subtlety whatsoever; you use the word 'list', which we both understand to mean a full reads list (since I posed my question with that phrase 'full reads list' in it and you don't say anything to the contrary). Throughout the game you've been consistent in the same empty demand (no full reads list) and just now you're telling me instead that you meant a list of some reads with reasoning. (Which is a very reasonable request, or would be if I hadn't already done just that throughout the game.)

Someone needs to learn the English language. List =/= Full list.

Let me give you an example of a list of reads.

Nabe is scum.
PLSD is probably scum.
video is town.

That is a list of reads. Let me give you an example of a list of reads WITH REASONING.

Nabe is scum because of (see above and my previous walls on this guy)
PLSD is probably scum because he hasn't contributed much at all, and what he has contributed hasn't been much.
video is town because his latest post of reads seemed legitimate, and I see no scum motivation for the way he pushed Degrey.

You were asking for a full reads list.

This is a lie, I've proven it, and I can dig up the quotes if need be. Want to press your luck?

Disliking them isn't a scum tell at all, much less on its own, and that you defend it as any semblance of a scum tell assures me that I'm not wrong, that you were looking for a full reads list and despite saying otherwise, feel a need presently to defend it as a scum tell and thus yourself.

This is such reaching it's almost lol-worthy. Let me quote you something.

He pretends I'm asking for a full read list, and calls the idea anti-town. Now, disliking full read lists isn't a scum tell on it's own. (That was the Dgames stance on the issue for a while.) However, he's completely straw manned my argument, I want his main reads + reasoning, he pretends I want a full read list and tells me to look through the thread for something he hasn't given.

It's completely obvious that I'm calling you scummy for straw manning my argument, not disliking full reads lists.

Re: the bolded, what haven't I given? This is unclear.

You have the burden of proof because you're the one saying I'm scum. How is this anything but valid?

Ah, not in this issue. The issue is that you haven't been actually scum hunting (aka: Giving reads with reasoning and trying to get them lynched.) I've asked for any instances of you pushing a scum-read for a lynch aside from me. All you have to do is quote a few instances of yourself doing that. That's all. Instead you tell me to look through the thread. Well, I've ISO'd you, and no such thing exists. So YOU have the burden of proof here.

It's not pointless to you: finding the reads that you think I've left without reasoning would further your aim of lynching me! It's not pointless to me: I want you to defend what I think is a baseless allegation with factual evidence if it exists! I'm challenging you to come up with a basis for your claims and you repeatedly refuse; what else can I think but that you're scum?

The problem with all this is that the only way to prove you HAVEN'T given reasoning for something is to look through every single one of your posts for said reasoning. I can point out said reads (although I'm really not looking forward to digging through the thread AGAIN), but I couldn't prove it without doing a PBPA on you, which nobody would read. And since you steadfastly refuse to give quotes of yourself pushing your scum reads to a lynch (aside from me, which I've dealt with), it'd basically come down to my word against yours.

Meanwhile, I've said that you'll get a full reads list from me because my reads are already out in-thread, with reasoning, and such a post would only be a conglomeration of those reads.

And, that's not what I'm asking for. I want your scum reads, sure, but I want the REASONING behind said scum reads a lot more.

nah


No. Reyth's reasoning and his pointing out a scumslip led to me thinking you're scum, and I dropped my vote on you. It was not an OMGUS in the slightest, since you didn't think I was scum at all until after I had voted for you.

oops I guess not

Way to straw man there. Look, I'm not talking about that part of the case (that would fall under "Stuff based in post #155 and earlier"). I'm talking about how you're trying to toss suspicion on me for my vote on you. THAT is what I'm talking about here.

How do you feel about what I've said about VG recently?

I don't see how on earth what you said makes him scummy. (And you dodged the question when I asked it.)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

oh man you just keep on talking

I'm scum

ok cool

 

[Nicholas1024]

So, does this mean you have no meaningful response?

 

[videogames.jpg]

@SoupKat (Kat really)

I also don't like Swiss, but Asdioh seems to disagree a little. Kat what do you think about Swiss? What do you think about his entrance onto our wagon?? I feel very much that had any other player jumped on it in such a scummy way then major callouts would occur, don't you agree?

@Nabeywabey

Also Nabe I feel like you tried to buddy me or appeal to me (X1) on at least two occasions during this game. Have you ever buddied me when we were both town? I remember in DKR you remained suspicious to the end, but here that is not the case? This intrigues me.

 

[videogames.jpg]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT *****ES


T-block Degrey, Kawaii Kangaroo, Ranmaru, July
Degrey videogames.jpg
SoupaKatamari
videogames.jpg
Nabe Nicholas1024
July
PLSD
Kawaii Kangaroo
Zen
Ranmaru T-block
Reyth
Swiss
Nicholas1024 Nabe, Reyth, Zen

NOT VOTING *****ES: SoupaKatamari, PLSD, Swiss




T-block wagon smells funny, just like the SK wagon did. In fact, I like the fact that SK was #1 on that wagon, but just unvoted a bit earlier.

Ranmaru is scum. His vote smells the funniest.
Nick vs Nabe is annoying and we should lynch one of them just to put an end to it. Probably Nabe, since X1 seems positive that Nick's town.
Vig PLSD or DeGrey.
Cop Swiss or whoever.
Doc protect someone.

STUFF LET'S DO


UNVOTE
VOTE: RANMARU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV3RC2sDwQs&feature=related

 

[videogames.jpg]

Like, I don't remember seeing a single bit of reasoning for the TB wagon. I'll admit that I wouldn't mind lynching him toDay, but I'm damn sure not going to do it unless I see good reasons. Otherwise, there are better lynches out there.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Ran isn't scum, get off his wagon please.

Nich isn't scum: Reyth, Nabe, Zen pick someone else. We're not going down this road.

Your choices are:

T-Block
PSDL
Zen