Tilt Metagame

[Player-1]

So I've been using a lot more tilts than I usually do, and not because I don't use them enough, but because I think we can find more strategic things with them. For example, we all know Wolf's bair to Fsmash or Dsmash has like...no lag. What if we could double bair to dtilt like that? Well we can't do that exactly, Diddy;s bair doesn't have enough range, his dtilt isn't as fast or powerful, and it doesn't shield poke as well. What we can do is find things like this, that have little to no startup/cool dow lag inbetween the moves. So far, we've been finding new ATs for the bananas and the occasional edgeguard technique, but we have to expand past that and start finding more things with his underrated moves, mainly his tilts, but also his Usmash, nair, and popgun. Not even the top Diddy players such as NL or AZ or any other member of the DdKBR are putting these moves to their full potential. The best person at utilizing these moves is Advent Lee by far so if you want an idea of waht I'm talking about watch a few of his videos, but he has quit SSBB right now.

Did you know you can Dtilt/double Dtilt to a grab? Did you know you can Dtilt to a spike at higher %? Or that you can Utilt juggle to Usmash juggles up to 60ish% damage at times when you follow their DI with Usmashes? You can even 0 death some characters by Nairing > Utilt >bair> spike when people are off the stage.

I just think there is a lot to Diddy's tilts that aren't being recognized enough or that haven't been found that can really expand on more of Diddy's metagame. So next time your messing around in the training room, trying to find some 0 death infinite with bananas, try to find something with his tilts or any of his other underrated moves.

 

[Trela]

I use D-Tilt either after I throw a Banana (High Percent) for a quick attack or the 2 D-Tiltz to Dash Attack Combo or something.

F-Tilt: If the opponent is like at 130% or something like that, I'll throw a Banana then F-Tilt then near the Edge.

U-Tilt: I use it to start nearly every Combo I do! These are just some of my ideaz with da Tiltz.

=Trela=

 

[The Sauce Boss]

I use that tilt landing stuff a lot. For those unaware if you press down on the cstick as soon as you land after an autocanceled aerial it does a down tilt instantly instead of a dmash. Its the fastest way you can do it when landing. I do it alot after sh fairs/nairs because the timing works out, but you can do it with any air.

Lets say you miss a sh fair, your opponent runs in to punish but because dtilt comes out so fast and you buffered it to come out instantly when you land.....WHAM they get hit. Its useful stuff.

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Also a good poking tactic is single jab dtilt single jab dtilt.....Its actually decently fast and ranged enough so you wont get shield grabbed.

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[Pegachris]

OMG I've been doing Dtilts into grabs forever now. They RARELY get stopped. Its one of my personal techniques. I need to get some of my games uploaded.

Plus I use Upsmash also. It works wonders against spot dodges.

 

[Count]

One thing that I picked up from watching thien is that rolling under somebody followed by a dtilt is tough to stop even if predicted. Much more effective than roll-dsmash. So if you are gonna be like me and roll way too much (which I'm trying to cut down on) then a dtilt followed by a roll is extremely effective.

 

[Irsic]

On some of the heavier characters I try to warm up about 3 or so dtilts at a low %, then, if they DI towards me, I roll behind and dtilt two more times.

It sounds incredibly stupid but it works all the time.

 

[TreK]

utilit to shuair looks so pro when you stickjump

tilts are one of the the bases of my gameplay, with diddy especially. ftilt has more range than a marth fsmash, it's incredibly useful. Dtilt remains my favorite cus it is faster, but i'm not really good when i want to do them in my back yet. I'll need to train it.

 

[ADHD]

Shut up player 1, everyone knows this stuff XD ur face, i've been doing that utilt stuff forever son. jk, but anyway.... the dtilt to grab doesn't work against button smashers, they will always do something odd and escape it. i can only dtilt to grab people that don't budge in things like jab to grab. plus more than one dtilt can be shielded at lower percents and backfire, its not a trustworthy thing to do before 30. ftilt is underrated as well, you can use it if you've tripped someone and you want to refresh some other moves.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

ftilt is underrated
dtilt is overrated (but still good)

 

[Player-1]

I'm not asking if something is under or overated or how you use your tilts so please stop saying crap like that. I'm just saying that Diddy's tilts aren't being utilized like other characters because we've been focused on banana ATs too much.

 

[ADHD]

I'm not asking if something is under or overated or how you use your tilts so please start saying crap like that. I'm just saying that Diddy's tilts are being utilized like other characters because we've been focused on banana ATs too much.

i've been using tilts like crazeh lately

 

[The Sauce Boss]

I'm not asking if something is under or overated or how you use your tilts so please start saying crap like that. I'm just saying that Diddy's tilts are being utilized like other characters because we've been focused on banana ATs too much.

First of all your post isn't worded correctly. Secondly, then wtf is this thread for? Your first post was about how you use tilts, so I posted about that and now you complain? Wtf else do you want this thread to be about besides how to use tilts?

 

[Player-1]

First of all your post isn't worded correctly. Secondly, then wtf is this thread for? Your first post was about how you use tilts, so I posted about that and now you complain? Wtf else do you want this thread to be about besides how to use tilts?

fixed.

I'm just saying that Diddy's tilts are being utilized like other characters because we've been focused on banana ATs too much

.


This ^^^^

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Are being utilized or "aren't"? I assume other characters are using their tilts well so saying that would be saying we are using tilts well.

Anyways I see what your getting at; diddys need to utilize his tilts. BUT Part of utilizing them is knowing how to use them. And you won't have a full grasp on tilts if your head is stuck up glide tossing's butt

 

[ADHD]

fixed.



.


This ^^^^

well it r wrong, there aren't very many banana ATs... just tactics...

 

[Player-1]

Are being utilized or "aren't"? I assume other characters are using their tilts well so saying that would be saying we are using tilts well.

Anyways I see what your getting at; diddys need to utilize his tilts. BUT Part of utilizing them is knowing how to use them. And you won't have a full grasp on tilts if your head is stuck up glide tossing's butt

Aren't. I KNOW I just changed it so IDK what was going on with that.

That's what I'm saying about the tilts.


Chromepirate: Most tactics are considered ATs, for example the BCC is called an 'AT' but it's really a tactic.

 

[Foufy]

I think every comment on the boards gets bashed, flamed, and argued against.
Player-1 makes a good point. The majority of the DiddyK community is focusing on finding AT's with bananas. By doing this, we have overlooked many AT's possible with his other moves.
I don't believe this is to say that people don't individually use these other moves, tilts and others, it's just attempting to get the Diddy community to spend some time on improving other aspects of Diddy's game, as a community.
I personally got too sucked in towards all the little tricks with bananas, dribbling and banana-locking and such, and there's no reason player should be flamed for trying to get people to pay a little more attention towards finding other types of AT's. Player doesn't need to be flamed for saying that the Diddy community, as a whole, needs to look a little more into other types of AT's

That being said, comments like "shut up... we know this" should be avoided. Perhaps you do already pay attention to these, but it would be better if we had more threads related towards new combos found with these techniques and preferably expanding them. Simply posting ur most used techniques with tilts IS a good way to get this started. Hopefully we can find combos as useful as what we've found with bananas.

 

[ADHD]

^^^ flame at you. it's more of friendly teasing

 

[Foufy]

friendly teasing is fine =)
seemed like non-productive bitter arguing to me lol

if you guys are alright with all the random arguing then just ignore me.
I just don't wanna see Diddy's fighting with each other instead of helpin the community.

 

[Kayzee]

I use Diddy's tilts quite often. Up tilt is a nice juggler, it's the perfect attack to follow a dash attack, and can be used as a vertical KO move at higher percents if it's kept fresh. Ftilt has some startup time, but it's got good range and pretty good knockback. It can be used to space, and it's priority is good, as it clashes with MK's tornado. Down tilt comes out quickly, and it has pretty good range too. I sometimes edgeguard with it, and it pokes shields fairly well imo.

 

[ice_cream_man]

anyone else do jab-grab? it sucks cuz sometimes when i press z diddy starts doing his tail flick.

 

[TreK]

you must jab cancel first. just remember to release down or you'll jab-dtilt and that's punishable.

 

[istudying]

I was using tilt since the beginning, Tilts = win Bananas = Mindgames

 

[rvkevin]

Did you know you can Dtilt/double Dtilt to a grab? Did you know you can Dtilt to a spike at higher %? Or that you can Utilt juggle to Usmash juggles up to 60ish% damage at times when you follow their DI with Usmashes? You can even 0 death some characters by Nairing > Utilt >bair> spike when people are off the stage.

Are these true combos or just good suggestions for follow ups? I'd imagine any good player would air dodge any spike attempt if its not a true combo…and its harder than I imagined to combo with Dair in training mode.

So what Training Mode counts as true combos:
Disclaimer: Not comprehensive (Didn't look at bananas, opponent in air, etc.), combos vary on percentage, most have a small percent range for true combo or must be done extremely close to opponent such as Dtilt->Utilt (i.e. not that practical)

Dash Attack->All Tilts/All Aerials/Fsmash/Dsmash (the weak part)/UpB (probably can't be punished)
Utilt->All Tilts/All Aerials/Fsmash/Dsmash
Dtilt->All Tilts/Fsmash/Dsmash

Things that may be near inescapable (Things Training Mode doesn't count as combos but I think may be useful):
Utilt->Grab (Not that useful, only would work at near zero percent)

Dtilt->Dtilt->grab probably would work because Dtilt->Dtilt combos and if they will probably shield on landing. I was also fooling around with Dtilt->Running Usmash.

Dtilt/Utilt->SideB! Great because it works even if they shield on landing/would work at wide range of percents. At low percent for Utilt, medium percent for Dtilt. Can do side B kick if at high percentage but more of a follow up possibility because they can tech away from it…If there is anything I learned from this little exercise to incorporate into my game, this would be it.

Notes: thanks Player for bringing this up…I recommend for others to do the same, it is useful to know how far each of his moves hits an opponent at each percentage so you know when it is safe to follow up with an attack or to restrain yourself because they are out of range.

Btw, I know most of the Training Mode combos are impractical and probably won't work when the opponent DI's, so don't mention it. I mean, when does anyone follow up a dash attack with a Ftilt or Nair, they don't, so just because it is included doesn’t mean I recommend it.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

I think every comment on the boards gets bashed, flamed, and argued against.

welcome to smashboards.

If I come off harsh it is because I didn't know what player 1 was getting at and well I WANTED to know. Its nothing personal, this is the internet.

 

[Foufy]

Yeah, I was kind of commenting on smashboards as a whole. Not specifically this thread.
I think everyone has good intentions because the smash community is a pretty kind one, but sometimes things over the internet can be misinterpreted and people can seem to sound different than they're intentions.

Just trying to keep the attention away from arguing and towards Diddy Kong being the beast that he is.
Back to the topic...

I think a big emphasis from this thread is the abilities with d-tilt. I guess it could be used at all times. (Higher percents = dtilt->spike = awesome; low percents dtilt x 2->grab->off the edge->DO A "bawrl" roll)
I definitely have to incorporate this more into my game.

 

[mastermiind]

agrees. i think we should try to engineer some kind of new tactics into aour arenal just incase but can u imagine if we were able to have an entirely solid playing style one good enught to win games without nanerz entirely by itself instead of it just being used here and there just to thtow the opponent off but to be able to ajust to every charecter by simply usiong naners or not


i think we should all take a bit of time and learn this

i was playing a falco yesterday and all he did was reflector spam on BF inder a platform. no naner game in this situation so i just droped it i relyed on only my tilts and the reight be fore i evend the game up he dc'd and then wanted me to rest the last life and i could remember percentages so u know were that goes but thats the only reason he won im still upset about it lol but all that aside i was realy down by an entire stock and brought it back bc he didnt know how 2 fight diddy no naners so i think im gonna take some time and try to improve my tilt game

 

[Timcanpy]

the tilt are really usefull to rack up damage, juggling utilts, glidetoss to dtilt > grabs, without mention that a fresh utilt or ftilt can kill at high percentage.

particulary, the utilt is really useful when the opponent is on plattforms, im agree with the central idea of the thread, the tilts still have a lot to give for the diddy metagme.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

When you said "Imagine having to play without nanerz" I was going to post about playing falco and then you did it! If you ever want to know how good your diddy is without bananas... play a good falco. Then you can see where your tilt game is it.

 

[Foufy]

Unless ur Ninjalink.
They own Chillin's Falco anywayz.....

 

[DUB]

I never use the D-tilt or Up-tilt. I probably should work in more d-tilt because to me it seems the most useful. I use the f-tilt a lot however. Space it perfectly and its hardly punishable and it does have considerable KO power .

Against those who like to Shield Grab after the naner hits expecting you to run in for a dash attack, throw a f-tilt in if your in range. It should hit and make them reconsider doing it again.

 

[Foufy]

I never use the D-tilt or Up-tilt. I probably should work in more d-tilt because to me it seems the most useful. I use the f-tilt a lot however. Space it perfectly and its hardly punishable and it does have considerable KO power .

Against those who like to Shield Grab after the naner hits expecting you to run in for a dash attack, throw a f-tilt in if your in range. It should hit and make them reconsider doing it again.

Up-Tilt is a beast for juggling. Try it out.
D-tilt can also get really annoying if you use it right.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Something else lesser known about dtilts....

On stages with angled ground (edge of Yoshi Island, Top of Rainbow Cruise etc.) stand on the angled part and dtilt. It puts the hit box in a really akward position making you near impossible to approach, great for camping. Its high enough that they cant sh air you but low enough that they cant ground approach.

 

[Tianxiazhai]

Hasnt it been long known that tilts are generally more benefitial than smashs?

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Hasnt it been long known that tilts are generally more benefitial than smashs?

Where in this thread do you see anything having to do with that? And that generalization is not necessarily true.

 

[D1RE]

I brought my tilt game with me from playing sheik and sonic. I tend to find running usmash -> utilt good at low %.

EDIT: After a nana of course.

 

[ADHD]

I brought my tilt game with me from playing sheik and sonic. I tend to find running usmash -> utilt good at low %.

EDIT: After a nana of course.

aren't you a game and watch in new york, or same name

 

[xoxokev]

I never use the D-tilt or Up-tilt. I probably should work in more d-tilt because to me it seems the most useful. I use the f-tilt a lot however. Space it perfectly and its hardly punishable and it does have considerable KO power .

Against those who like to Shield Grab after the naner hits expecting you to run in for a dash attack, throw a f-tilt in if your in range. It should hit and make them reconsider doing it again.

I think dtilt has a similar range to ftilt, and imo it feels like it hits/ends faster than the ftilt

 

[rvkevin]

Dtilt: Probably his best tilt. It can combo into another Dtilt and follow up with a side B, which is very effective. Since Dtilt->Side B works, alternately Dtilt->Throw would also work. Alternating Dtilt's and SHFF Fairs is relatively good/safe (not much of a Brick Wall so don't repeat it much).

Utilt: is very useful out of dash attack at medium percents because its too easy for the opponent to DI out of the Usmash at medium/high percents and has decent KO power compared to Diddy's other moves. For this reason, I think running Usmash is relatively fail, there are better options. Also, its good against a Dairing MK.

Ftilt: is not nearly as good as his Dtilt and Utilt because its not nearly as safe. His Ftilt is too punishable if missed. Ftilt could probably be used an alternative KO move at very high percents, hit them at a low trajectory when near the ledge to edge guard, refresh other moves, follow up a single hit dash attack…Not really sure as I don't use it much personally. I really only use it to push people into bananas that are right behind them.

I think his use of tilts is pretty given based on situations…I think we should talk about how they are implemented out of his approach and into his follow up…For example, if you Dash Attack (hit and pick up banana)->Glide Toss up and forward to match their trajectory & DI->Utilt->Uair. On that note, please keep in mind that banana approaches are generally shielded and if you follow up with a dash attack, you will be punished on a competitive level so I would like more discussion on follow ups from his Grabs and Side B. Are there any or do you usually just revert back to a neutral position?

 

[TreK]

The tilt i use depends on the spacing. In terms of range, ftilt>>>dtilt>>>utilt. On a wolf in example, i barely dtilt.
I should mix it up though.