Tier List Speculation

[leelue]

I have had the "opportunity" to play David weekly for a few years, and that has only made me dislike Falcon more. Dash dance ad infinitum -> nair/grab -> 0-death combo -> get called manly -> lose -> complain about your character on the Falcon boards is the antithesis of "cool."

I don't know if you know this, but dashdancing on fast characters is stupid as hell

No, he had some very reasonable, semi versatile options, and they still saw fit to nerf it.

Maybe because they wanted him to have a worse recovery on purpose, so there'd be a bigger spread of recovery-goodness?

 

[Crazy Ivan 505]

How good is Luigi in this build of project m?

 

[ItalianStallion]

How good is Luigi in this build of project m?

Seems to be the same, but we won't know for sure until the change-log.

 

[Crazy Ivan 505]

Seems to be the same, but we won't know for sure until the change-log.

Does he still have a high learning curve? I'm new too project m.

 

[Giygacoal]

Does he still have a high learning curve? I'm new too project m.

I would say so. He has weird physics and stuff like shorthop fireball waveland.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Does he still have a high learning curve? I'm new too project m.

I've played a lot of Luigi throughout Melee and Project M (Used to be my main in Melee). I don't think he necessarily has a high learning curve (Except for his recovery). Wave dashing is a necessity with him as that is what gives him his speed. Get comfortable wave dashing and wave landing off of platforms and stages and what not and you will have conquered his most important tech. L-cancelling and everything else is important too, but wave dashing is supreme.

Head on over to the character specific forums and introduce yourself to some Luigi mains if you are interested in picking him up. In the character specific boards, you will find players who are more than willing to "take in new recruits", if you will, and teach you whatever you need to know.

EDIT:

I would say so. He has weird physics and stuff like shorthop fireball waveland.

I would say that his weird physics helps new players more than it hurts them. Luigi is hard to combo, is semi-forgiving technically, and has a slow fall which gives new players more time to think.

 

[Crazy Ivan 505]

I've played a lot of Luigi throughout Melee and Project M (Used to be my main in Melee). I don't think he necessarily has a high learning curve (Except for his recovery). Wave dashing is a necessity with him as that is what gives him his speed. Get comfortable wave dashing and wave landing off of platforms and stages and what not and you will have conquered his most important tech. L-cancelling and everything else is important too, but wave dashing is supreme.

Head on over to the character specific forums and introduce yourself to some Luigi mains if you are interested in picking him up. In the character specific boards, you will find players who are more than willing to "take in new recruits", if you will, and teach you whatever you need to know.

EDIT:
I would say that his weird physics helps new players more than it hurts them. Luigi is hard to combo, is semi-forgiving technically, and has a slow fall which gives new players more time to think.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Aenglaan]

EDIT:
I would say that his weird physics helps new players more than it hurts them. Luigi is hard to combo, is semi-forgiving technically, and has a slow fall which gives new players more time to think.

I'd say it's a double-edged sword. Luigi is difficult, or at least different, to combo. However, he also has a learning curve because the way he combos is very different from other characters.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Luigi feels, at least to me, like his attack and approach strategy involve a lot of misdirection and tricky fakes until he actually uses an attack. Once he's cherry picked his opportunity, he seems very dedicated to his course of action. This is from just using him and not with any chance to go against him, but he seems to have to choose his attacks very carefully. His defensive options feel fairly restricted to Wavedash back F-tilt, and he doesn't seem to have the kind of malleability to his attacks that less dedicated characters do.

 

[Nausicaa]

If you're talking about playing him optimally (as good as Luigi can get, not just 'really good' play, but the best play), then it's the steepest learning curve. To play him exceptionally well, it's pretty shallow, as you can get what is essentially a back-bone of 'specific fundamentals' and abuse his stuff to no end. Only when it's not abuse-able anymore (when the meta-game develops enough that there's no 'tricks' to fall back on), is it difficult. It's easy to distinguish between good and great Luigi play, it's the last bit that makes a difference between great and fully developed Luigi play, and it's the silly intricacies that give the character dynamics in play. As Kink kind of described, it's not 'normal' smash, due to lack of conventional... anything. When WD Forward > Pivot F-Tilt is essentially more Bread-and-Butter the more the meta-game with him develops, you know they're a ****ed up character. This also leads to why most players can jump around to many characters, but everyone immediately will adapt the same play-style when initially grabbing Luigi. So far, there are some 'great' Luigi players (Melee too), but very few/if any, people playing the character with even a tap into fully developing the character.
Otherwise, yeah, he's good in PM 2.6.

Dedede though...
He's the EXTREME of tiny differences. All Dedede's will look the same until you get to that fully developed level of the meta-game, where the dynamics of the character are so flushed out for the player, than they don't have any fall-backs, they're just a giant bag of presence for the opponent since since they have so many tricks to limit the opponent from abusing Dedede, but lack anything beyond them to make much happen. Stale-mates with instant-kills are inevitable with that character's meta-game. haha

 

[Kink-Link5]

I like that DeDeDe's back throw does like 18% or something.

 

[Nausicaa]

It was sexy like that in Brawl too.
D-Throw is for sissies though, and that's what Brawl was all about, so B-Throw missed out on sexy-time until PM.

 

[Giygacoal]

I would say that his weird physics helps new players more than it hurts them. Luigi is hard to combo, is semi-forgiving technically, and has a slow fall which gives new players more time to think.

Maybe, but it depends on if the new player is starting with PM in general with Luigi or taking up Luigi after taking up another character.

 

[Strong Badam]

according to texas after I 3-0'd sethlon, dk's broken, so he better be 1st on all of your lists

 

[~Frozen~]

DK-Marth confirmed 101:-1 DK Favor

Kappa.

 

[Kink-Link5]

DK is at least better than Charizard now that he does nearly everything the lizard does better. Why time a D-smash into fair to kill at 100% when you have access to a character that can do a larger, less strict Down B into fair and kill at 80%?

I give him a B+

 

[DMG]

DK jabs are cooler. Clearly better character for it.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

DK-Marth confirmed.

The only thing I could think of from initial reading of those first three words was giving DK the Falchion, which sounds awesome. Who's the king of the jungle now?

 

[ItalianStallion]

DK is at least better than Charizard now that he does nearly everything the lizard does better. Why time a D-smash into fair to kill at 100% when you have access to a character that can do a larger, less strict Down B into fair and kill at 80%?

I give him a B+

Zard's down smash has way less start up lag and therefore is useful in many more situations. Zard players can use it as a gut reaction type of thing while DK plays have to plan their down b's out.

 

[ELI-mination]

Marth is low tier tho

 

[Kink-Link5]

Zard's down smash has way less start up lag and therefore is useful in many more situations. Zard players can use it as a gut reaction type of thing while DK plays have to plan their down b's out.

Ahdunnuh, it seems like D-smash outright misses for many reasons beyond just not tech chasing in the right direction. DK can use his in just about any tech situation and get a free reward while Charizard's D-smash has very few active frames in a particularly small window. I end up Reading in the Dark in situations often enough in this build that it is more depressing than anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Let'sa Go!

1. Fox
2. Falco

3. Sheik
4. Peach
5. Wolf
6. Mario
7. Snake
8. ZSS
9. Meta Knight
10. Pit
11. Marth

12. Jigglypuff
13. Donkey Kong
14. Ike
15. Diddy Kong
16. Bowser
17. Link
18. Lucario
19. Wario
20. Toon Link
21. Lucas
22. Ivysaur
23. Zelda
24. Charizard
25. Captain Falcon
26. Sonic

27. Ganondorf
28. ROB
29. Squirtle
30. Pikachu
31. Luigi
32. G&W
33. Ness
34. DDD

 

[Paradoxium]

Why do you still believe G&W is low tier? I think we have all established that he is on the better end of the characters. And Lucas beats the **** out of everyone so he should really be like top tier.

 

[Ripple]

2.6 is so balanced right now it seems that people shouldn't even bother having a number for a character, they should just have tiers

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think the characters at the bottom, such as G&W, are bad. I just find the other characters to be better. Somebody has to be at the bottom. Does this really need to be stated every time somebody posts their opinion?

And I numbered them for my convenience. It made it easier for me to find a specific character when looking back at the list.

 

[Plum]

I do think G&W has improved quite a bit. The Chef change is great, and the added consistency to the hammers, along with the buffs to the numbers themselves last go around obviously, really solidifies them as a core to G&W's gameplay rather than a gimmick strategy (I think Judgement itself is a gimmick but utilizing them isn't a gimmick strategy if that makes sense).

 

[Paradoxium]

I don't think the characters at the bottom, such as G&W, are bad. I just find the other characters to be better. Somebody has to be at the bottom. Does this really need to be stated every time somebody posts their opinion?

And I numbered them for my convenience. It made it easier for me to find a specific character when looking back at the list.

When you post an opinion I have the right to post my opinion about it, and quite frankly I feel fox and falco are only the best right now because we have them figured out. And I feel Lucas has to be one of the best newcomers, there are some really good people playing as Lucas and his combos are ridiculous. As for G&W his bacon was buffed, even though it was already a great move. And his combos are fairly simple yet powerful. I feel the lists for now should only be in tiers and not by individual characters.

 

[SpiderMad]

2.6 is so balanced right now it seems that people shouldn't even bother having a number for a character, they should just have tiers

In my lists if I couldn't decide between a couple or more characters i'd just put dividers between'em.

 

[~Frozen~]

GnW/Ness place 5th at the biggest PM tournament since Melee-FC, still #unviable

 

[Deleted member]

I split my list up.

 

[Professor Pro]

Another tier list with Snake up high....ahhh yeahhhh!

I really need to get some new matches up and see if I can further change people's opinion on him since my youtube vids are like 6/7 months old and my understanding of the character and general gameplay has improved TONS since then.

 

[SpiderMad]

Another tier list with Snake up high....ahhh yeahhhh!

I really need to get some new matches up and see if I can further change people's opinion on him since my youtube vids are like 6/7 months old and I've improved TONS since then.

Do it already punk, I want a tutorial video too stop being selfish

 

[Professor Pro]

Do it already punk, I want a tutorial video too stop being selfish

My tutorial will just be a video of me saying 'Learn to DACUS consistently, your life as a Snake player will be easier'
and then it will end.

 

[SpiderMad]

My tutorial will just be a video of me saying 'Learn to DACUS consistently, your life as a Snake player will be easier'
and then it will end.

You convinced me during a twitch chat to switch to using R as Attack for DACUS characters, still think the input needs to be researched though to be made easier so we don't have to do these switches for decent consistency but yeah. But no you need to make an actual tutorial of random snake knowledge, or else; like I don't even know how his wimpy DACUS is good in the first place.

 

[Kink-Link5]

[collapse=Bunni's 2.6 Tier Listing ver. 0.5 (Post AnimeIowa)]Top
Falco
Fox
Sheik
Peach

High
Wolf
Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Snake
Diddy Kong
Metaknight
Mario
Jigglypuff

Mid
Wario
Donkey Kong
Ike
Link
Marth
Bowser
Lucario
R.O.B.
Charizard

Low
Game and Watch
Lucas
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur
Zelda
Ness

Bottom
Ganondorf
King DeDeDe
Toon Link
Pikachu
Luigi
Squirtle

??? Mystery Tier ???
Random Select[/Collapse]


Feel free to post complaints that I won't read.

 

[MVP]

DDD is better than everyone makes him out to be. especially in 2.6. he has so many gimping potential and his recovery is decent. i just think people need to take a second look at him and G&W

 

[Yung Mei]

gnw got so much good **** in 2.6 and people still put him at close to bottom

shoutouts to the other 3 gnw players in the US, lets **** **** up

 

[Kink-Link5]

The only reason there are a low and bottom tier in my list is because of conventional tier naming for five splits. In a more optimistic look, the tiers could be described as Top, Very High, High, Upper Middle, and Lower Middle.

 

[Minor Pandemic]

Whenever I read someone's tier list I look at their top dozen characters and then kinda glance around to see where the currently-being-discussed characters are (such as zard right now). I just don't care much how the lower 22 are organized anymore because it's such a pot luck of pretty viable characters being organized kinda however.

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently PM is so incredibly awesome that the tier list should defy logic by having only a top and a middle but no bottom.