Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
He's still slow, fat, easy to combo, easy to camp, easy to grab, tends to lose neutral, etc. He's better than he was, but a neat little tool like KK dthrow isn't going to pop him up that much. He's useable, at least, but still not a very good character.
You, me and the other d3 players disagree on this. I know several of the D3 players feel 3.5 D3 was mid tier or better, due to his gameplan being pretty consistent across the broad cast. Yes, he has a set of bad matchups, but he has versatility against a ton of the cast, whether they are heavies, fat, floaty, fast faller, etc. He has the tools to kill anyone in the game if he gets them off stage, and the reason he fell so hard from 3.5->3.6 was because of the dair change that was a fundamental tool for him in neutral. Now that he can win neutral again, I and D3 players like Apollo think fairly in line that he's back to his mid tier or better status.
^ This
What characters do you think DDD is worth counter picking for? If he has good match ups vs high tier characters doesn't that make him high tier by definition?
In a game like Melee it would where the low tiers are rare af and still bad.
Are you putting Ness in the same tier as DK and Jiggs or am I misunderstanding? lmao
what
diddy in a+ tier is interesting, everything else there seems fine
General consensus among who?
Could u please explain sonic, Marth, shiek, puff, and ivysaur's placements?
Pit is like a smash character made by a committee:
Jiggs in the same tier as Weegee and Squirtman is the only thing I really disagree with here. And I don't really mean it the Jiggs-too-hi way but the Slip'n-sliders-too-low way. I consider both still relatively locked potentialwise. Tho it may just be exposure.
And Ness is just kinda... underwhelming. The only thing he really has going for him is a good punish game. Which is fine for low levels of play. But the lack of an effective neutral game really hurts.
Let me pre-face that I'm probably just biased about Marth because of the region I live in. x_x
EDIT - Oh and Sonic. Ehhhh. I actually wanted to put him into A-. I think he is still one of the most underrated characters out. People can talk about negative disjoints all they want but you can't simply be one of the most mobile characters in the game and not be good.
If you're not prepared to defend a list that you make, that happens to vary from most other lists, and instead say something like, " i thought everyone here would have the decency to accept my opinions without interrogating me" why are you even posting in the first place?
Idk about sheik, im pretty new to her and she doesn't feel that good so far, u might be right tho. About ivy I think she has decent potential in the right hands, she can feel weird to play at first but once you get the feel for her i don't think she's bad..
Top players tend to know what they are talking about, so there is nothing to "flame", as you put it. But when somebody comes in, drops a list, but refuses to say anything other then "thats how I feel" and wants other people to talk about it, I'm sorry but that is a terrible way to try and start discussion. He made a bunch of questionable placing and expected others to talk about why they disagree. Thats not how discussion/arguments work. Then, when he realized this wasn't going to happen, he clammed up with a victim attitude, saying that he didn't post to be interrogated. All the while double posting an unholy amount.
But "it's just how I feel" doesn't show us where you're coming from or why you think xyz or give a point for discussion. You need a basis for your opinion/conclusions, preferably backed by some facts/proof. It's also surprising how many times "that's how I feel" translates to "I posted my opinion for the sake of posting it and based it off stray thoughts". Criticism and demanding reasoning behind (in this case) tier placings aren't personal attacks, it's what happens during discussion. If you can't be bothered to defend you opinion in a discussion, you're welcome to leave at any time.
You can get a feel for a character without looking at paper facts. People can form opinions here based on their experience, because what you see on paper isn't always what you get in reality. As for reasons for posting, that's the poster's business, if it makes them feel good to post a tier list then why would you feel the need to rudely shut them down? Anything on this thread posted by a less known player that goes against the general consensus gets flamed and hated on. But when a known player does it he/she gets praised for it and if someone tries to disagree with their opinion they get flamed out as well.
Im not saying it's not ok to think these things, but you can at least do it respectfully.
This thread is about discussion. Hopefully productive discussion.
Yea, well, maybe you could discuss things nicely, it's not a crime you know. Instead of ganging up and ostracizing him/her you could respond respectfully. I guess it's just easier for everyone here to bully when the person they're bullying isn't right in front of them. He/she did absolutely nothing wrong yet everyone felt the need to hate on him/her.
Jab jab dtilt isn't really a thing, dtilt is too slow. Neither is jab jab grab, again too slow and it if you just buffer a spot dodge it's not active enough to catch it. It'll certainly work if you're not expecting it, but it isn't real and there are ways to deal with it. Dsmash is certainly a thing, and so is upb, but if he uses it just once and hits with it he loses his bomb jump, so it comes with a huge cost. The only thing that hits hard and is reasonable to hit with are fsmash and fair. Funny thing about fair is that tlink has more or less the same fair, with more base kb and about 5 less on it's kb, which is another example on how there is usually at least one character that outclasess that good attribute he has. He's fairly decent at building % but most characters have good combo potential or ways to build damage.
Ivy just keeps getting its defensive tools nerfed and doesn't really have the toolkit to go aggro on the oppenent. Ivy has a really good gimping game but lacks the means (read, good neutral) to get the opponent off the stage consistently and while Ivy's recovery is fine for when it is edgeguarding the opponent it falls apart when it gets throw off stage because tethers are bad. Ivy has someways to cover this with Razor Leaf and Dair but they aren't all that good either.
Yea she is lacking, but I don't think she's lacking enough to put her down with DK and 2 tiers below puff.. Mach seems to make her work in top level so I don't think she can be lowest tier.. I'd go with low mid tier.
I would say how a neutral stacks up against other characters' neutral, along with how well their neutral leads into their punish is most important for determining matchups. Then how good of a mu spread is where they should be placed on a tier list. How punish games stack up in a mu (and thus affecting placement in a tier list) is important, but is a secondary concern compared to how easy it is to get those openings.
Flow definitely came into a thread geared for discussion, shared his/her questionable opinion and refused to elaborate, defend, argue for, really anything. I would call that doing something wrong. Again, why post in a discussion thread and refuse to discuss, all the while making people angry by hiding behind "opinion walls" and getting unnecessarily defensive. Flow just had strange misconception with how this thread operates and refused to change that in the way he/she decided to act.
I don't think he has that much problem killing: fsmash, flare blade, and bair are all very solid and Roy has good setups into those attacks I believe. Care to elaborate? Also I don't understand Falco's placement. I think he's one of the best in the game despite his recovery, for many of the same reasons I think he's the best in Melee (insanely good combo game, 1 frame cheat move i.e. shine, great DD, quick moves, outstanding neutral, bigger hitboxes than Fox).(Each list is in no particular order)
S:
These characters I feel can take nationals with little to no help from a secondary character
A:
Close to S tier, but have to put in more work for same results at nationals. Also Pika is super good but needs more representation imo. Also I don't think Falco is that great. Opponents SDIing his combos affect him more than others due to slow horizontal speed, and his recovery is like Fox's, but much worse and much easier to edgeguard.
B:
Solid mid-tiers. Yeah, I put Roy this low because he honestly has so much trouble killing. Plus with the removal of the float and the worse ledgedash, his recovery is soooo much worse.
C:
Counterpick characters.
D:
Slightly less useful counterpick characters.
I wish I could have more experience so I could make a better list, but everyone at my local scene is either terrible at Project M or is a Melee/Smash 4 player that ****s on the game every time it's mentioned.
He actually did - he broke forum rules repeatedly by disregarding forum etiquette. But it's a moot point. Plenty of people were perfectly respectful in their questions or criticisms, and his responses were no different. Nobody is really brigading, here. There's just been like two or three people coming around with uninformed opinions and then playing the victim when other people have other opinions.
I get your reasoning for Roy, but I still have to really disagree. He doesn't have much trouble killing. Watch some top-level Roy play if you haven't already; there's plenty of it. Roy has fsmash, and combos into it on some characters (especially meta-important fastfaller characters). His bair just got a substantial buff in this patch, making it easier to connect in a couple different ways, and giving it a better killing angle. He also has many ways to combo into this quick aerial killmove. I think at first glance it's easy to think that Roy has trouble killing, but putting Marth at S tier and Roy at B because Roy has trouble killing is odd, since Roy is much more consistent at killing than Marth (see: Marth Syndrome).(Each list is in no particular order)
S:
These characters I feel can take nationals with little to no help from a secondary character
A:
Close to S tier, but have to put in more work for same results at nationals. Also Pika is super good but needs more representation imo. Also I don't think Falco is that great. Opponents SDIing his combos affect him more than others due to slow horizontal speed, and his recovery is like Fox's, but much worse and much easier to edgeguard.
B:
Solid mid-tiers. Yeah, I put Roy this low because he honestly has so much trouble killing. Plus with the removal of the float and the worse ledgedash, his recovery is soooo much worse.
C:
Counterpick characters.
D:
Slightly less useful counterpick characters.
I wish I could have more experience so I could make a better list, but everyone at my local scene is either terrible at Project M or is a Melee/Smash 4 player that ****s on the game every time it's mentioned.
