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Fox can cc shine dsmash to infinity if he's in the air. Ftilt would probably work a few times until the fox gets smart and starts sh nairing when you get close. And while Squirtle can threaten Fox with super rar, a well placed nair would hit squirtle out of everything but bubble, possibly bair and water gun (where the nair would just chump block it)
Why
Because it's true? PM crouch cancel is better than Melee CC. Maybe it's from what I've seen constantly or that stages being bigger + better recoveries = CC seemingly better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lasers don't do 50 damage halfway across the stage anymore, Uair is extremely easy to SDI, and up smash doesn't kill until about 105-110 or higher (I'll test that when I get my setup back). Stages are bigger which means she lives even longer in general, while she still has the same setups that kill Fox at relatively the same %'s in Melee. Recovery can be punished easier due to more end lag on Fox. She also has Ice mode to get Fair / Usmash kills and useful for zoning purposes. Her roll is useable compared to Melee and the morph ball / moving crouch adds an extra movement / gimmick to her toolset.
That may be because of changes to ASDI down? Not sure how Brawl's engine inherently differs from Melee's, but I could imagine 2-3% as plausible.
Pretty sure SDI is the same, and you don't always get a chance to SDI it, you undersell how floaty Samus is, unless you mean 105 after up-smash which is probably more average. Stages on average are bigger, but ceilings are not higher on average, the stagelist favors Fox. Ice mode is not worth it against Fox, we lose more set-ups than we gain. Recovery on Fox is barely different, he very rarely ever actually lands in the new up-b land lag. And crawling is not the same as crouch cancelling, if she is hit while moving all I get is the ASDI part of CC.
at least for the links (maybe lucas and ivy as well) this is actually an interesting tradeoff. a lot of upclose stuff that would lose to normal grabs beats their tethers, due to startup, but then the more midranged spacing options seem to lose to them, due to the speed/range combo they have.
Tether grabs in general could probably use some work, or just some normalization with each other for the sake of consistency. I'm pretty happy with where Samus' is at though. I believe she has the slowest grabs in the game now(in startup, travel time, and endlag). This weakness actually makes the character a lot more interesting, though. Instead of just chucking out grab to beat shield, I have to space strange pressure and work around the opponent's shield in ways that other characters don't really have to, it's something unique and we should strive to keep healthy unique things in the game.
Random invincibility and armor eh? Last I checked all the invinc he has he also has in Melee (only on Up-B, fully charged nB [frames 17-18, before arm becomes outstretched], rolls/spotdodge/etc), and the only armor he has is on Dash Attack.
He's... he's a grappler. Of course his whole bent is grabs. I don't get how you can say 'worst-designed'.
A lot of what you said just makes me feel stronger about what I was hinting at. In street fighter Zangief ' s throws are far more punishing than any other character's and he is justly rewarded for getting in through the gaunlet of projectiles. I attempted to say linear over and over for a reason. Dk is one of the worst combo weights for getting out of combos combined with what to get out of juggles, Yolo up b? Yes his grab game is strong, but there are characters that can get just as much off grabs, and setup for them far more easily. Good and bad is arbitrary based on the surrounding cast. While my argument was roundabout (4a.m message) My question is since all the other characters around him are multi optioned, and do virtually the same thing up close, what encourages the dk player at hi lvl play to stick with the character as anything more than a counter pick?
*had some of the best pressure. All Lucas gets now is maybe a magnet -> aerial or nair -> magnet -> aerial. Before you had to buffer a roll. Now you can just roll away or punish with a grab / aerial OoS. It's still better than most characters, but you overestimate how good it is. In 3.0 he had busted pressure and could catch rolls / anything OoS that was too slow. With the added hitlag, Lucas lost a lot of good pressure.@D e l t a Did you say you can shield safely against Lucas? He has some of the best shield pressure in the game...Lucas is an amazing character and is not just usable at a regional level, whatever that means.
What's with you Lucas mains thinking that characters can shield grab Lucas? You need a frame 4 OoS option to beat Lucas' pressure. No shield grab is 4 frames. His sweet spot fair can be spaced out of shine range, and against every other character, they need to beat his next option, which is typically magnet, which comes out on frame 5. So, like I said, a frame 4 OoS option that can be spaced away from his magnet/fair. There are very few characters that can challenge Lucas' shield pressure with their OoS options. You realize, the difference between 3.0 and 3.6 magnet is +6 on shield and +4 on shield? That's still a substantial shield advantage. If you drop shield against Lucas, he can get a combo going and score big damage. He's fast enough on the ground to follow rolls, especially when considering his frame advantage, and 3/4 of his best pressure moves beat spot dodges. His dair, one of his only aerials that CAN be shield grabbed, has enough aerial mobility to cross up shields and prevent the shield grab, and can cross up far enough to avoid shine OoS.
I'm not saying he's a garbage character, only that he's hindered by a number of weaknesses. You state many of the same problems for Ness, yet refute my statements I make against them such as recovery & priority.
Lucas has an objectively better recovery than Ness. He has a significantly better hitbox protecting himself from non-disjointed moves, a higher degree of aerial drift at the apex of PKT2, and a tether to mix up his options. Comparing them is arbitrary anyway.
Have you considered that you just have poor spacing? You can space around most character's shield grabs. Maybe you're just too slow? Aerial magnet is +4 on shield, which means you have 11 frames to match a standard shield grab, 10, if you consider grab armor. That's plenty of time. Mag is +4 on shield, fair is active frame 5. You know what beats that? Frame one OoS options, not shield grab.
Just because a character has a better move, it doesn't make yours bad. Also, how would you compare, Fox, Falco, Sheik, or Ike's nair to Lucas'? They're entirely different and used completely differently.
So? People in your region have experience playing against YOU AND YOUR STYLE. Just like you have experience playing against them and their styles. You play against Tetra's Ness, that doesn't mean you would have experience playing against MY Ness, which is extremely different.
Lucas' weakness is in his defenses and he's good enough that he very rarely needs to play in a defensive position.
in terms of grappler analogues: i always thought a grappler was mostly defined by "makes you afraid to block (shield), but also makes you afraid not to" so, good damage/combos/positional advantage on their throws and command grab(s) and also really good damage/positional advantage on normal combos, as well. usually balanced by low mobility and/or large hurtboxes, but have good hitbox coverage and ways to beat out zoning/projectiles on good reads.
