Tier List Speculation

[Ripple]

if odds does worse IRL than I did online then I have the best bowser ever.

 

[Rizner]

I'll bet you real-life moneydollars that I 2-0 or 3-0 him the first time we meet.

So like, can anyone jump in on this offer?

 

[The Baron]

So like, can anyone jump in on this offer?

I'm unfortunately short on real life money dollars but if I weren't I totally would. Then again I'm really bad at gambling and betting (Don't have the best "odds") so he might lose just because I bet in his favor.

 

[Frost | Odds]

We all play together. If you call out any NY player, especially FS, you're gonna get some serious **** talk.

I just pointed out that I thought I'd win, and got called delusional and dumb. If this is normal NY behavior, I'm pretty glad to be west coast.

If that's how we're going to play it, though

If Darkblues's play is any indicator, FS is terrible anyway. Gallo, Eli, and Frozen are among my favorite players to watch, though.

wait

no

I might need a trash talk coach. Who's good at being hella rude that isn't from NY?

if odds does worse IRL than I did online then I have the best bowser ever.

Wasn't Zhime like the original Netplay hero? I'd have thought it more impressive that you beat him on his home territory. O.o

 

[steelguttey]

as a long island player who has had many ny players come to my local

stop that

 

[Frost | Odds]

Sorry @ steelguttey I can't commit fully to the trash talk thing. My inner Canadian just bubbles out in a trickle of softly sighing "sorry"s.

Would still love to moneymatch everyone though. Any of you guys going to make it to LTC3 or Paragon?

 

[steelguttey]

knowing how lazy new york is (calling out my own region holla) idk about all of fs going

**** would be cool tho

 

[Boiko]

It's also hella far. NY travels fairly frequently within tristate. But booking a flight halfway/all the way across the country and putting up a hotel room is pretty expensive. Especially when you consider the age range of players.

I may be going out to Paragon, @ Frost | Odds . If I do, we'll play for sure. But I think you're sleeping on just how good NY is.

 

[PlateProp]

I just pointed out that I thought I'd win, and got called delusional and dumb. If this is normal NY behavior, I'm pretty glad to be west coast.

If that's how we're going to play it, though

If Darkblues's play is any indicator, FS is terrible anyway. Gallo, Eli, and Frozen are among my favorite players to watch, though.

wait

no

I might need a trash talk coach. Who's good at being hella rude that isn't from NY?



Wasn't Zhime like the original Netplay hero? I'd have thought it more impressive that you beat him on his home territory. O.o

Pick me


Also how are other people just BARELY realizing that Olimar is still stupid good?

 

[steelguttey]

Also how are other people just BARELY realizing that Olimar is still stupid good?

cus olimar players do nothing but look at nerfs and not the character itself and whine alot

 

[PlateProp]

cus olimar players do nothing but look at nerfs and not the character itself and whine alot

So do zelda players, and they complain about buffs too

Olimar's probably the only 3.6 thing I know i'm gonna be irritated about, overbuffs for days

 

[steelguttey]

ok ive beenwanting to talk about this

after looking at the olimar changelist, yes. people are gonna complain about olimar

but he still has flaws that is going ot keep him out of top 10

he will always lose to swords, fast projectiles, spacies, will always have a bad combo weight, always have bad movement speed and no alternate movement option to make up for it.

 

[PlateProp]

ok ive beenwanting to talk about this

after looking at the olimar changelist, yes. people are gonna complain about olimar

but he still has flaws that is going ot keep him out of top 10

he will always lose to swords, fast projectiles, spacies, will always have a bad combo weight, always have bad movement speed and no alternate movement option to make up for it.

having an actual up b is overbuff

i want my olimar nerfs dammit #nerfollimar3.6

(Srsly tho, olimar doesnt have bad movement speed, 1.61 is average run speed man)

 

[steelguttey]

his run speed isnt enough to outweigh his bad movement options. most people who have average run speed have something else to make it at least less of a problem

 

[Ningildo]

Wait, people realizing Oli might be good? Pretty sure I've been saying that for a while now...

And eh, average mobility is fine. We have a good to decent neutral against non-spacies and a decent retreat option in SH Purple Toss > Waveland back. Pikmin dash/slide is fun, let's you throw pikmin on the opponent and DD to bait something. If he/she doesn't, free damage!

I'm not sure how we have bad movement options when we have a at least serviceable wavedash. Not having a super special awesome movement option doesn't automatically mean you're bad. I mean, I'd like a slightly better DD to help bait out stuff from Marth better, but that's it, really.

He just has issue with some characters that interact well with his kit, but secondaries can help with those.

 

[steelguttey]

im nearly positive that backwards pikmin throw waveland isnt possible. would be cool if it was tho

 

[DMG]

I might need a trash talk coach. Who's good at being hella rude that isn't from NY?

One man: Dphat

Dphat in his prime was legendary; if he's in your corner trash talking your opponent, it's hard to lose.

Sorry @ steelguttey I can't commit fully to the trash talk thing. My inner Canadian just bubbles out in a trickle of softly sighing "sorry"s.

Would still love to moneymatch everyone though. Any of you guys going to make it to LTC3 or Paragon?

LTC3 is my jam, it will be your jam too. Come beat people with big chars

 

[Ningildo]

@ steelguttey If you mean SH Turnaround Pikmin Toss out of a run, I'm pretty sure you can if you're quick enough. Really depends on what you mean...

I might be wrong, though. Going to check that when I get home.

 

[steelguttey]

im nearly positive its a 1 frame link at minimum

def harder than normal

 

[DMG]

Couldn't you B-reverse pikmin toss the other direction and still waveland, instead of turn around?

 

[steelguttey]

wont that turn my momentum around?

 

[ChiePet]

B-reverse, no, Wavebounce, yes; it's hard to time the difference between the two.

 

[Binary Clone]

B-reverse, no, Wavebounce, yes; it's hard to time the difference between the two.

B-reverse changes direction and momentum.
Wavebounce changes momentum but not direction.
B-turnaround changes direction but not momentum.

 

[Rizner]

So do zelda players, and they complain about buffs too

What

 

[Warzenschwein]

Has anyone made a tier list of obnoxiousness everybody can agree with yet? No? Pls. First step to achieving an actual tier list kappa.

 

[D e l t a]

I compare different game versions of Olimar because the character that was 3rd to 4th best on the Brawl tier list, went down to bottom 3-5 in PM. Having a super good character that had one of, if not the best camp games and great defensive tools, down to a relatively slow, momentum based character. PM Oli is massively nerfed compared to Brawl Oli and for good reason. So when I see these nerfs from 3.0 to 3.5, I laugh at how minuscule they actually are in comparison to its Brawl counterpart.

This is why I say that PM Oli is bad. Of course I'll be comparing my old main to the modded version. That's like comparing any character to the tr4sh counterpart. It's just a thing that we do.

 

[Ningildo]

But PM and Brawl are different beasts and yadiyadiyada...

Also you can't recover in Brawl. At all. Opponent edgehogging? You lose a stock guaranteed.

PM Oli is bad in comparison to Brawl Oli, but, for the most part, it's in terms of tier placement, which in this game, have a far smaller gap between tiers.

Just wait for 3.6, imo.

 

[PlateProp]

I compare different game versions of Olimar because the character that was 3rd to 4th best on the Brawl tier list, went down to bottom 3-5 in PM. Having a super good character that had one of, if not the best camp games and great defensive tools, down to a relatively slow, momentum based character. PM Oli is massively nerfed compared to Brawl Oli and for good reason. So when I see these nerfs from 3.0 to 3.5, I laugh at how minuscule they actually are in comparison to its Brawl counterpart.

This is why I say that PM Oli is bad. Of course I'll be comparing my old main to the modded version. That's like comparing any character to the tr4sh counterpart. It's just a thing that we do.

Except pm olimar isint bad

The only legit problem he has is a bugged recovery

 

[D e l t a]

I know the two games are 80% different; however, when you main the character in one game and find out he's not as good comparably, it's off-putting.

Directing focus back on PM Oli, I find his Fsmash to be way slower and not as good a disjoint / be able to combo from or into. Grab range & lack of grab armor on Oli are also minute, but large issues. Pikmin priority does not seem as great. I do like the repetitive hit boxes and how they do flower damage. When in shield, I find the latch damage a little silly and somewhat unnecessary. His upthrow obv doesn't kill anymore (not until late %'s), and forward/back throws are nowhere near as good at killing (even with blues).

As for the rest of his moves, dash attack, up/down throw, and dtilt are stupid good for combos, and Nair still connects into Upsmash (spinny thing to Upsmash for those who played Brawl lol). Ftilt is great to kill with and Fair can combo / kill way better. I like the single hit Uair and I don't think many people abuse this as much as they could. Dair feels a lot cleaner and the hitbox is very good still.

 

[steelguttey]

fsmash is good because its slow. its like shiek needles but better. its an edgeguard option and a neutral option if you do it off platforms. whats bad about his grab range other htan being insanely good? his priority is fine honestly. ive traded iwth some attacks i shouldnt have tbh

dude blue back throw is about as strong as peach's forward throw if the blue is flowered. **** is very good.

 

[Bazkip]

minute, but large issues.

"These small problems are big"
????

 

[Player -0]

Pretty sure Purple Up-Throw still kills? I know blue backthrow does.

Why was Oli's tilts nerfed though? Nolimar nerfs were too real, I have Marth syndrome so hard.

 

[steelguttey]

blue uthrow is stronger than purple uthrow and blue uthrow doesnt kill very early

idk why the ftilt nerfs are there honestly

 

[Ningildo]

I know the two games are 80% different; however, when you main the character in one game and find out he's not as good comparably, it's off-putting.

Directing focus back on PM Oli, I find his Fsmash to be way slower and not as good a disjoint / be able to combo from or into. Grab range & lack of grab armor on Oli are also minute, but large issues. Pikmin priority does not seem as great. I do like the repetitive hit boxes and how they do flower damage. When in shield, I find the latch damage a little silly and somewhat unnecessary. His upthrow obv doesn't kill anymore (not until late %'s), and forward/back throws are nowhere near as good at killing (even with blues).

As for the rest of his moves, dash attack, up/down throw, and dtilt are stupid good for combos, and Nair still connects into Upsmash (spinny thing to Upsmash for those who played Brawl lol). Ftilt is great to kill with and Fair can combo / kill way better. I like the single hit Uair and I don't think many people abuse this as much as they could. Dair feels a lot cleaner and the hitbox is very good still.

Not really meant at you, but what the hell does priority even mean? I just know about well placed moves (with disjoints) and the 9% rule. Wasn't priority debunked a while back?

Fsmash isn't really a combo anything move. It's an edgeguard move (a godly one at that) and used on platforms in neutral. Grab range was nerfed, but blue is pretty damn long regardless, especially with a pivot grab. Blue throws still kill, but later and were always able to be DI'd so they don't kill till like 140%+.

Ftilt and Fair aren't really kill moves (Ftilt's KBG got nerfed iirc and Fair just got toned down all around), besides maybe Purple Fair. Best aerials to kill with are probably Purple/Red Upair/Bair.

Finally, characters changing in viability happens between games quite frequently...I have real trouble believing this would be the only case of a character being worse in transition to another game.

 

[steelguttey]

blue fair, purple fair and red fair are all pretty good kill moves

 

[Arrow (Kyle)]

I just pointed out that I thought I'd win, and got called delusional and dumb. If this is normal NY behavior, I'm pretty glad to be west coast.

If that's how we're going to play it, though

If Darkblues's play is any indicator, FS is terrible anyway. Gallo, Eli, and Frozen are among my favorite players to watch, though.

wait

no

I might need a trash talk coach. Who's good at being hella rude that isn't from NY?



Wasn't Zhime like the original Netplay hero? I'd have thought it more impressive that you beat him on his home territory. O.o

If your fraud ass is willing to actually come over here and hand us all money, I'd love to make bank real quick. And just to be clear if you lose to me you're literally actually the absolute worst Bowser on the planet.

 

[InfinityCollision]

NY trying waaaaaaaay too hard right now. Put the measuring tape away and pull your pants up, we don't want to see that.

 

[Frost | Odds]

And just to be clear if you lose to me you're literally actually the absolute worst Bowser on the planet.

Just watched one of your videos. This seems accurate, assuming you're Searing Arrow, and not some other mediocre player surrounded by a circlejerk.

Also, this olimar talk has me a bit nervous. He already counters Bowser pretty hard despite his bugs.

EDIT: we should probably also keep the epeen waving out of this particular thread. my bad for contributing

 

[Soft Serve]

Just watched one of your videos. This seems accurate, assuming you're Searing Arrow, and not some other mediocre player surrounded by a circlejerk.

Also, this olimar talk has me a bit nervous. He already counters Bowser pretty hard despite his bugs.

Inb4 no Bowser changes and olimar gets a shine

 

[Ningildo]

No, that'd be jank, especially if it was frame 8 JCable and didn't spike 9.9

But yeah, I hope Odds doesn't face a Oli main in bracket, ever. That big of a hurtbox with Oli's grab range sounds like a disgusting mu for Bowser.