Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
They've changed dramatically, idk how you could think otherwise. Comparing to melee doesn't make much sense with consideration to the new stage list, new mechanics (DACUS, Float, etc.). Characters have different grab follow ups from melee. I know what the match ups were like in melee, but Ganon couldn't float in melee, and he didn't have a DACUS, and Puff could ban Yoshi's. Peach's up smash wasn't a useful kill move in melee, she didn't have a glide toss to help her against top platform campers either.
sheik was terrible vs puff in melee. not sure how it translates into pm
Alright, fine then, one spot down then. I guess I wasn't quite clear enough, but I wanted marth and falco a lot higher than they are. You said he was "decidedly not that good" which to me, implied that he was at least 3 or so spots below like on your tier list. I'm saying he's probably between 5th and 7th in terms of tier list., which would just be raw character strength in relation to others. He may be a few spots lower in terms of tournament viability though.
...The last nair was a sourspot nair. Sourspot nair didn't kill in 3.02 either lol. Ness wouldn't have even been hit off the stage in 3.02, he would have just been hit by the first soft nair and then link would have fastfell to try and juggle and/or cover his landing. If he had ended that combo with fair or sweetspot nair ness would have died.
Wait, then why is marth so low and lucario so high? If matchups against the most popular characters is 90% of what places them on the list, why is a character that gets dumpstered by spacies, isn't good against swordies and loses to sheik tied for second, while marth, the character who has no bad matchups except sheik, and a few random mid tiers tied for 15th? Since such a wide variety of PM characters are played in tourneys, I consider the matchups against the mid tiers, and only weigh the high and top tier matchups slightly higher.
For Zelda, I think she loses this but it's close (maybe 40-60?). Puff can pressure a grounded Zelda with bairs, and if spaced not get punished. In the air, puff has better mobility than Zelda to move around. Zelda can get more off grabs, and kills early, but has a hard time working with puffs movement. At earlyish percents, puff can edgeguard with fair/bair and hit during teleport startup. If Zelda messes up a land cancelled nayru it should be a free rest.
a tier list is simply a ranking of characters from better to worse based on their recent, relevant, top end performance. the idea is to show you who's winning on the list so you can prepare for characters that you are more likely to lose to if you entered a tournament tomorrow. we dont consider MUs, they are placed into the tier list anyway as certain characters perform better or worse than others. for example, in melee sheik is atypically low right now because she loses to fox/falco meta.
A GIRL BEAT YOU AT A VIDEO GAME?!?! OMFG THAT CHARACTER MUST BE SO OP!!!!!1!111!
idk man, you need more evidence to make a claim like that than "some girl came and beat us up with zard." I mean, his moveset is good, for sure, but he's a fatty with relatively bad options against pressure and relatively bad approach options. That means he's going to lose to at least half the cast, and all of the top tier characters right off the bat. He is viable for sure, just keep in mind that being low tier doesn't mean "bad" like it does in most games, it just means he is worse than most of the cast.
Marth can never take Fox to FD in a Bo3 in melee either so IDK why that's a big deal. The emphasis should be that Fox never fully loses a DL-type stage whereas Marth fully loses FD in a Bo5.
As a Marth main in Melee, what stage does Fox ban in Melee Bo3 if not FD? I think you mean Bo5?
big stages like norfair and PS2 are good for fox since marth lacks kill setups. GHZ is a little better but fox's much better kill power still nets that as an advantage since marth has a garbage combo weight and fox can cover the entire stage mid combo. ps2 is also fairly bigger than ps1 from melee and marth didnt win neutral vs fox on any stage to begin with. marth goes into the fox MU at a firm 40-60 MU disadvantage. we also use 2 bans in PM so marth pretty much never has to go to DL64 or norfair, but he still loses on the other stages that arent FD so its a moot point.
And Tetraflora will beat you with Kirby, but it doesn't mean Kirby is an amazing character.
Luigi is probably somewhere around the middle of mid tier.
Mid or lower mid imo
Matchup is actually pretty even imo
I've seen KirbyKaze talk about how the MU in Melee is actuallye even as long as the Sheik plays it right. It requires her to play in way she normally wouldn't, like more needle, more camping, less grab, more Nair. But I'm probably wrong anyway and you are more experienced then me so I'll take your word for it.
Maybe you guys are just bad.
That's intense
There, That's the evidence.
JOE!
>tfw no waifu cosplay chick to play pm with
At the risk of getting a Warning:
