Tier List Speculation

[PlateProp]

what should the starter be in place of DP? dreamland 64 is a dumb starter imo
agree on skyworld being dumb, disagree on excluding yoshi's story... there's already WW, FoD and GHZ for tiny stages
norfair is hardly a real stage, i personally like it but its so easy to circle camp on

There's 3 bans on this list

Meaning someone can ban EVERY small stage

Forgot to include dis ^

Norfair sounds like a gud starter lmao

 

[Ripple]

also, news flash. if your character gets circle camped. don't ****ing go there with that character.

you have the option to ban it first of all, AND THEN you get to even choose a character to play on it if you DIDN'T even ban it in the first place

 

[bec]

There's 3 bans on this list

Meaning someone can ban EVERY small stage

Forgot to include dis ^

Norfair sounds like a gud starter lmao

so you would swap YS for one of the others? otherwise there's four small stages

norfair is a bad starter imo sorry

its ok as a CP but not much better than some other stages we could use



im trash i love metal cavern

 

[Deleted member]

right so when degenerate play happens we blame the player and then make no attempt to solve the problem in advance via the stage list

 

[bec]

umbreon makes words better than i do

 

[PlateProp]

so you would swap YS for one of the others? otherwise there's four small stages

norfair is a bad starter imo sorry

its ok as a CP but not much better than some other stages we could use



im trash i love metal cavern

Swapping one out wouldnt do **** to solve the problem that you could still ban every single small stage

Are you trying to be obtuse right now?

 

[bec]

no, i dont understand whats going on

 

[PlateProp]

no, i dont understand whats going on

The stagelist is unfair for characters that do good on small stages because someone can ban all of the small stages in the list since they're given 3 bans

 

[Ripple]

slow characters can't play on big stages ever. Ganon and zelda can't do **** to anyone that has decent mobility on a stage bigger than PS2.
and I know you know that umbreon.

do you suggest we ban all stages bigger than it? skyworld, norfair, Dreamland, distant planet.

 

[bec]

The stagelist is unfair for characters that do good on small stages because someone can ban all of the small stages in the list since they're given 3 bans

even as someone who does well on small stages i dont like the fact that that with four small stages theres literally nothing someone can do but pick their poison when banning
its happened to me playing against sethlon, and happened to my opponents playing against me

 

[Boiko]

even as someone who does well on small stages i dont like the fact that that with four small stages theres literally nothing someone can do but pick their poison when banning
its happened to me playing against sethlon, and happened to my opponents playing against me

So what's the point of counter picking if no matter what you're stuck with an unfavorable stage?

 

[bec]

So what's the point of counter picking if no matter what you're stuck with an unfavorable stage?

if you are totally crippled by three stage bans, then you need to get better at the game

edit: thats also what having secondaries is for

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

Can we stop saying that Norfair and Distant Planet are "big" stages?

DP vs. PS2:

Norfair vs. PS2:

DP and PS2 are very similar. Norfair only feels big because the platforms are far away sometimes, but it's strictly smaller than PS2 or FD. Both stages have top blastzones that are smaller than average. The only "big" stages in the list as far as blast zones are concerned are Dreamland and Skyworld.

I personally get frustrated when people don't have Skyworld in their stage pool and point to Norfair or DP as "other big stages with less jank" because they aren't even that big. It really makes characters who need the space struggle when you force them to ban small blastzones (WW, YI, FOD, GHZ), still get CPed anyways, then get Dreamland banned against them and they're screwed cause the opponent still has two more bans.

 

[Boiko]

if you are totally crippled by three stage bans, then you need to get better at the game

edit: thats also what having secondaries is for

Totally crippled, no. Having to work from a disadvantageous position versus an advantageous one on YOUR CP is a different story though.

 

[Rizner]

if you are totally crippled by three stage bans, then you need to get better at the game

edit: thats also what having secondaries is for

The same argument could be made - if you can't play on small stages then get better or a secondary. This argument doesn't work either way.

 

[Ripple]

I was strictly talking about stage length, not blast zones

 

[bec]

i just dont agree with being forced to pick your poison when banning stages, really
words are hard and im bad at them :/

 

[PlateProp]

i just dont agree with being forced to pick your poison when banning stages, really
words are hard and im bad at them :/

There's a reason it's called counterpicking

 

[bec]

There's a reason it's called counterpicking

i know, and i am speaking as someone who benefits from forcing someone to have to play on a small stage
it just doesnt sit right with me

 

[PlateProp]

i know, and i am speaking as someone who benefits from forcing someone to have to play on a small stage
it just doesnt sit right with me

I dont benefit from playing on small stages and it makes jo sense

Why are they even bothering to try to cp if they cant take me to a stage that's favorable for them

 

[JOE!]

slow characters can't play on big stages ever. Ganon and zelda can't do **** to anyone that has decent mobility on a stage bigger than PS2.
.

>Bigger than PS2

PS2 is the BIGGEST stage lol.

 

[Ripple]

fine. whatever stage has the least amount of horizontal stage bigger than BF.

PS2 also has near 0 vertical game

 

[jtm94]

In either scenario Norfair and DP aren't any larger than stages that people would like to refer to as neutral and the blast zones show the same trend.

I agree they should not fill the role of large blastzones on stage lists.

 

[Rizner]

i know, and i am speaking as someone who benefits from forcing someone to have to play on a small stage
it just doesnt sit right with me

If that's the case, there should be less large and medium stages. That way, anyone could ban what they don't want.

 

[Deleted member]

http://smashboards.com/threads/proposed-standardized-ruleset.393717/

take it here guys

back to ******** about fox in here

 

[ChiePet]

Can I just ask one thing; of the handful of Stage Rules I've found, which one is the most often used or more likely to be used in a tournament out of them all? I'd guess either WindyCitySmash's ruleset or VGBC/Xanadu's Ruleset, but this is why I'm asking!~

 

[JOE!]

I'm just happy people are learning from my efforts

 

[Rizner]

Can I just ask one thing; of the handful of Stage Rules I've found, which one is the most often used or more likely to be used in a tournament out of them all? I'd guess either WindyCitySmash's ruleset or VGBC/Xanadu's Ruleset, but this is why I'm asking!~

Entirely depends on your region and TOs

 

[didds]

http://smashboards.com/threads/proposed-standardized-ruleset.393717/

take it here guys

back to *****ing about fox in here

might as well quote for because and stuff

 

[ChiePet]

Entirely depends on your region and TOs

Hmm, well to not sound 90% stupid, I'm in the DMV area (DC Maryland Virginia) so I guess Xan/VGBC would be the right way to go. just skeptical because although I know handfuls of PMDT/PMBR members are from there, they diiiiid stop streaming PM so Idk.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Link, T.Link, Samus and old ZSS can grab you out of the air within the first few frames of their grab, but it's only on the hand and it's kind of difficult to pull off cause the first came the grab comes out is slowish

Otherwise, Link, T. Link, and Samus ( and maybe some other character with a tether grab that I don't know about) can't grab people out of the air.

Just tested it in debug mode, and it seems besides olimar, if you count him as tether grabber, samus has the only tether that can grab airborne opponents at any point in her tether. Idk about zs @DrinkingFood so I'll just take your word for it.

2.0/2.1 Links had fully airborne grabs, they had standing dthrow CGs as a result.

Either way, it's a pretty important distinction between being unable to grab airborne opponents and being able to so with your hand imo. Makes combo'ing into grab on aerial opponents a thing, and enabled dthrow CGs on a lot of the cast prior to 3.5

I agree, but food for thought, that grab box you're mentioning, comes out on frame 11, lasts 3 frames, and is probably the smallest grab box I've seen yet. Not to mention that for the big link, his arm pulls back from the recoil in his grabbing animation, making this small grab box even harder to connect with. For anyone who looks at this, don't be confused with the bigger grab box overlapping it, it doesn't grab out of the air. So overall, the links just have a worse option than pretty much every other character when it comes to grabbing.

 

[jtm94]

Samus chain grabs are real.

Also Yoshi can grab out of air.

I've also never had problems grabbing out of air with Ivy either.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

http://smashboards.com/threads/proposed-standardized-ruleset.393717/

take it here guys

back to *****ing about fox in here

Isn't it funny that characters that can win neutral almost as well as Fox tend not to have his absurd kill-confirms?

I know I'm repeating DF but it *really bears repeating*.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't it funny that characters that can win neutral almost as well as Fox tend not to have his absurd kill-confirms?

I know I'm repeating DF but it *really bears repeating*.

pretty sure everyone but the melee players all know the deal on fox

 

[Jolteon]

Just tested it in debug mode, and it seems besides olimar, if you count him as tether grabber, samus has the only tether that can grab airborne opponents at any point in her tether. Idk about zs @DrinkingFood so I'll just take your word for it.



I agree, but food for thought, that grab box you're mentioning, comes out on frame 11, lasts 3 frames, and is probably the smallest grab box I've seen yet. Not to mention that for the big link, his arm pulls back from the recoil in his grabbing animation, making this small grab box even harder to connect with. For anyone who looks at this, don't be confused with the bigger grab box overlapping it, it doesn't grab out of the air. So overall, the links just have a worse option than pretty much every other character when it comes to grabbing.

Yeah, that's true! It is overall underwhelming.

 

[hype machine]

I heard Ness has some potential to be broken, is this true?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I heard Ness has some potential to be broken, is this true?

no

 

[Boiko]

no

Ow, my heart.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Samus chain grabs are real.

Also Yoshi can grab out of air.

I've also never had problems grabbing out of air with Ivy either.

**** I forgot yoshi lol, yeah he grabs airborne opponents, but I tested Ivy, and just now retested her, and she's the same as the links, a part of her grab can interact with airborne opponents, the rest of her tether does not.

@ Jolteon true dat, but your character, I'm guessing it's still tink, has the mobility to cover for it. I mean it sucks that you don't have that option, but big link doesn't have that option, his movement is worse, and has a worse projectile game than tink, arguably. So you're sailing pretty smoothly imo.

 

[Jolteon]

**** I forgot yoshi lol, yeah he grabs airborne opponents, but I tested Ivy, and just now retested her, and she's the same as the links, a part of her grab can interact with airborne opponents, the rest of her tether does not.

@ Jolteon true dat, but your character, I'm guessing it's still tink, has the mobility to cover for it. I mean it sucks that you don't have that option, but big link doesn't have that option, his movement is worse, and has a worse projectile game than tink, arguably. So you're sailing pretty smoothly imo.

It's a way better situation for TL because bomb -> fair -> grab is a true combo on most characters until fair starts forcing kd vs ASDI down, so you can treat bomb as a pseudo-grab. Doesn't really help against spacies for example, but it's a large boon against most of the cast because his punish game from grab is incredible and having a reliable low% grab set-up to harness that is amazing.