Tier List Speculation

[MellowTV]

Pichu is no good?

 

[standardtoaster]

@ MellowTV this is the Project M board not Melee.

 

[DrinkingFood]

What if Ike could shield out of QD instead of being able to turn around during his QD jump (something that works with no other jumps...?)?
Then he could approach through projectiles either with shield or by maintaining momentum during a roll/spotdodge OoS
God this sounds so retardedly good, now I kinda want it and kinda don't
At least he loses some stupidly good follow-ups and throw shenanigans

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I want Luigi's hand to grow 3 sizes become Marth's sword when he fairs

I approve of this.

 

[TreK]

Man, Ivy's bair is sooo OP !

@EmLeingod thx for making me discover this pic bruh :V

 

[CyberZixx]

Ivy's bair also got a longer disjoint, hits twice and sends at a great angle. I don't think that is a perfect comparison. Ivy's bair and Marth's bair are totally different.

 

[Binary Clone]

I made this Gfy a while ago also that illustrates another important difference:

Air control and recovery is important too. The fact that Ivy can easily go out that far makes her bair more powerful, while Marth's bair can't be used nearly as far out off the stage.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Air control and recovery is important too. The fact that Ivy can easily go out that far makes her bair more powerful, while Marth's bair can't be used nearly as far out off the stage.

also Ivy's is a semispike. And she has way more air mobility in general.

 

[TreK]

Ivy's bair also got a longer disjoint, hits twice and sends at a great angle.

Longer disjoint : true. It helps against Snake and my region's top player is a Snake, suck it tiara boy !
Hits twice : not really an advantage. Leik, okay I have more margin or error I guess, but there are a number of trajectories during which bair 1 will not link properly into bair 2. There's also the fact that you can ASDI down bair 1, which stops me from being able to whiff punish with it in the neutral, and it's a pain in the ass.
Great angle : funnily enough, Ivy's bair became a semi spike because they thought it was WAYYY too OP when it has a higher angle that allowed it to link into itself and into killmoves (aka when it was marth's fair, basically).

Yeah, more disjoint and mobility I guess.
Let me whine about marth in peace dammit :C

 

[Frost | Odds]

Longer disjoint : true
Hits twice : not really an advantage. Leik, okay I have more margin or error I guess, but there are a number of trajectories during which bair 1 will not link properly into bair 2. There's also the fact that you can ASDI down bair 1, which stops me from being able to whiff punish with it in the neutral, and it's a pain in the ***.
Great angle : funnily enough, Ivy's bair became a semi spike because they thought it was WAYYY too OP when it has a higher angle that allowed it to link into itself and into killmoves (aka when it was marth's fair, basically).

Yeah, more disjoint and mobility I guess.
Let me whine about marth in peace dammit :C

The 2 hit setup also makes it better for edgeguarding and option coverage (because there's effectively added active frames) as well as slapping projectiles (such as Samus missiles) with the first hit, then getting in with the second.

I'm still with you on Marth. The only thing keeping me from playing him as secondary in this game is that I'm switching to him in Melee because Puff sucks - and playing him in both games would be a bad idea. :/

 

[PlateProp]

The 2 hit setup also makes it better for edgeguarding and option coverage (because there's effectively added active frames) as well as slapping projectiles (such as Samus missiles) with the first hit, then getting in with the second.

I'm still with you on Marth. The only thing keeping me from playing him as secondary in this game is that I'm switching to him in Melee because Puff sucks - and playing him in both games would be a bad idea. :/

Puff is great, you're just bad

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I'm switching to him in Melee because Puff sucks

Puff in melee sucks? what....

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, more disjoint and mobility I guess.
Let me whine about marth in peace dammit :C

marth cant do ledge drop bair second jump bair and autokill 75% of the cast. if you know how to play vs marth, he has no real way to kill most of the cast unless you suck at CPs.
marth is hilariously overrated in this game.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Speaking of which, Reddit made a tier list.

It's about as bad as you'd expect.

 

[TTTTTsd]

ROFL GANON IN A TIER OMG I'M DYING

I know he's currently untapped in the current meta (hover does SO MUCH) but like, not THAT untapped. LOL BOTTOM TIER YOSHI, ROBBBB LMFAO.

Dude I wanted to keep my sides in this orbit. DUDDEEEE.

Also Mario should be high end of B tier but whatevs it's Reddit. Also lol bottom tier D3. I also do not think Marth is THAT good....holy cow. You know what, thank you. I needed a good chuckle today.

How can this list have like, a handful of sensible placements but **** like Ganon in A tier? I don't understanddddd. Please tell me this is an online percentage based usage ratio tier list or something, PLEASE. They can't be serious, I'm like, the epitome of mid-low level player and I know some of this is outright messed up.

 

[Onomanic]

Reddit is pretty bad lmao. Ganon is definitely not that good, and I'm not too sure Sheik is that good either.

 

[Binary Clone]

Disclaimer: I know that this will not be a 100% accurate tier list. This is just a cool way to see how people feel about the characters in general here and to see how these impressions change over time.

Of course it's ****ty, it's a bunch of random people casting votes on a scale of 1-10 on a massive roster of characters. Nobody ever expected this to be accurate, and it doesn't claim to be in the slightest.

 

[mimgrim]

It's Reddit. What did you expect? :L

 

[jtm94]

Olimar is the only legitimate trash tier char in 3.5. Pmbr hasnt messed up this bad since 2.6 ivy

*Is still losing to 3.5 Olimar*

 

[Soft Serve]

Speaking of which, Reddit made a tier list.

It's about as bad as you'd expect.

@ PMS | Tink-er You're the only pm reddit mod I know, I blame you for this abomination

 

[Binary Clone]

@ PMS | Tink-er You're the only pm reddit mod I know, I blame you for this abomination

It's from /r/smashbros, not /r/ssbpm, so he's not/less responsible.

 

[egumption]

Probably the worst tier list I've ever seen. My poop could probably come up with a better tier list.

Like, Wario and Tink in D tier. On the reverse, Ganondorf in A tier. Wat

 

[Ningildo]

At least they got Oli right? :|

Community voted tier lists by people who have no clue tend to be bad. It really does look like a usage list instead, lol. Just ignore it and continue discussing whatever.

Things like what kind of buffs you guys think Oli needs and deserves. Please.

 

[didds]

Speaking of which, Reddit made a tier list.

It's about as bad as you'd expect.

THIS IS BAD?!?!?

it looks just like mine..

 

[steelguttey]

Things like what kind of buffs you guys think Oli needs and deserves. Please.

but whistle armor is a good idea

and rng rooles

i love pikman

 

[Venom_909]

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:
I don't consider these characters until they're fixed:

Swapped marth and ike
Swapped squirtle and pit
moved lucas to upper mid

Alright, HOPEFULLY final tier list for now? This actually seems complete.

Closest thing to an accurate list tbh. Luigi is high and wario is top imo. Sosa 3-0d Westballz falco and has been preaching warios top 5 for a while now.. Not sure marth is that low either but i havnt extensively tested MUs with marth.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think I can accept wario being top tier right now. His overall lack of positive MUs vs most of the melee vets and the fact that he doesn't actually have legs (aka loses to disjoints/projectiles) hurts a lot

HOWEVER I think he has a lot of potential and could be put in high tier instead of upper mid. I have heard a lot about how sosa is putting in mad work.

 

[Binary Clone]

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:
I don't consider these characters until they're fixed:

Swapped marth and ike
Swapped squirtle and pit
moved lucas to upper mid

Alright, HOPEFULLY final tier list for now? This actually seems complete.

Hm.
Does Falco deserve to be on the same level as Wolf/Fox? Should Marth really be only Upper Mid? I thought he's high. And I would personally have Roy more at High tier instead, but he's obviously really, really good right now, and I think you've prooobably got a more informed opinion there than me, haha.

Do you think Lucario is Top? I understand that he seems kind of untapped right now, but nobody has had such really stellar performance with him as of yet as far as I know, so I feel like we're lacking evidence.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

@ PMS | Tink-er You're the only pm reddit mod I know, I blame you for this abomination

XXXCheckmate asked if he could do one in our sub, and I said it was fine. Idk if he actually did it. I think tier lists are irrelevant atm.

 

[Deleted member]

Falco is still really good in pm. He is the worst of the 3 spacies, but he is a lot better than the other characters in high tier

I don't know where to put marth either. I want to say hes high tier but I also want to say hes upper mid.

Roy is godlike. Seriously. He's amazing. I could just gasm all over roy for hours jfkl;jdsklaj;dkj;alkd;kja;l

Lucario is also really good in 3.5, the argument that he has an awful neutral game isn't really good/relevant, its fine lol. His punish game/shield pressure is so insane, the street fighter character in a smash game mechanic makes him ridiculous.

 

[egumption]

I think you just throw Marth into High Tier, but keep him in the bottom half of High Tier. Marth is Marth, so he has his struggles, but he's Marth, thus sound Marth play is just the kind of thing where you're never completely out of the matchup and you can always somehow pull out a way to win. He's not as good as Roy (or Ike in my opinion) but it's not like Marth is bad in any sense (i.e. extremely glaring weaknesses that would put him out of high tier), he's just harder to use and requires more effort to steamroll in comparison to the other swordies.

I would do the same with Wario, but put him as the last entry in High Tier. It just makes sense that a character with weaknesses as glaring as Wario, but on the same token with as many strengths as Wario, bridges the gap between High Tier and High-Mid Tier.

 

[Deleted member]

My tier list isn't in order, its just in groups. Theres no bottom of a tier, they're just in said tier.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

MU charts are way more useful than tier lists. I wonder what ever happened to accaferra's MU spreadsheet project.

 

[SuruStorm]

Is there anyone following this thread with the knowledge to accurately pull this off or the time to sit here making adjustments?

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

^ Spending time on a cast wide MU chart would prove more accurate

 

[InfinityCollision]

XXXCheckmate asked if he could do one in our sub, and I said it was fine. Idk if he actually did it. I think tier lists are irrelevant atm.

He did and immediately got shot down because he tried to do it via upvotes/downvotes.

 

[Jolteon]

MU charts are awful in my experience, way too inaccurate and most people seem to arbitrarily assign numbers to MUs. Melee's is pretty bleh and that game has a much smaller roster.

 

[Deleted member]

*Is still losing to 3.5 Olimar*

your dog wears a diaper

 

[Choice Scarf]

MU charts are way more useful than tier lists. I wonder what ever happened to accaferra's MU spreadsheet project.

That's me, new version is here for 3.5. Anything with numbers in cells is because I'm filling this in tandem with my survey results stuff, but I'm also trying to track all comments on Smashboards and whoever commented them so that I can weigh the averages later.

Now if only grad school wasn't eating my time. At this rate 4.0 will come out before I finish

 

[Binary Clone]

That's me, new version is here for 3.5. Anything with numbers in cells is because I'm filling this in tandem with my survey results stuff, but I'm also trying to track all comments on Smashboards and whoever commented them so that I can weigh the averages later.

Now if only grad school wasn't eating my time. At this rate 4.0 will come out before I finish

I looked at that like, "Oh, maybe I can help with that" and then realized that the chart already references me. o.o

That's a pretty impressive undertaking.