Tier List Speculation

[Choice Scarf]

Ayy yeah, if you comment often in any general or the bigger character threads, you're probably in. Doesn't mean I can't use help though, but I'm sure no one else will be willing to go through all of the data (unless you actually do, then message me).

If anything just comment if my interpretation of whatever your opinion is should be corrected. Like if I think you're implying an MU is -1 when you actually think it's even.

 

[howbadisbad]

Someone pls make a tier janklist for the top 5 jankest characters in PM

I need it because reasons

 

[jtm94]

your dog wears a diaper

I lost.....

Tier lists aren't that bad, people make them seem way worse then they actually are and post nothing constructive. That's the summary that would be on the back of this if it were a book. People would still read it..

 

[mimgrim]

Someone pls make a tier janklist for the top 5 jankest characters in PM

I need it because reasons

Honorable mention to

 

[DrinkingFood]

Sorry but ROB should def be in top 5 jankest
Also lucario ICs and Oli, everything about them works differently than other characters

 

[mimgrim]

I was torn on putting a lot of character as just jankiest as just a top 5 and a conservative honorable mentions doesn't really cut it. Should have really gone for the former.

Revised jank list;

 

[Binary Clone]

I was torn on putting a lot of character as just jankiest as just a top 5 and a conservative honorable mentions doesn't really cut it. Should have really gone for the former.

Revised jank list;

Are Bowser/Peach/Weegee really that jank?
Bowser 'cause armor, Peach 'cause float cancels/turnip random pulls, Luigi because Misfires?
Zelda because... sweetspots exist?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Most of those characters don't even compare to Oli or ICs; They are multiple ****ing characters
Being on the extreme end of a scale doesn't really seem jank, Like bowser's strength/size/slowness, Puffs size/weight/drifting, Luigi's traction/floatiness/low drifting
Jank to me seems more like they operate in ways totally foreign to the rest of the cast. Oli's attack properties change based on Pikmin, IC's desync and operate two characters at once, ROB airdashes around, Lucario's moves function differently on hit than on whiff, etc

Jank List Speculation Thread

 

[LittleFoxBot]

I think Zelda makes the Jank List because of her camera control lol

 

[jtm94]

I guess every character is jank by your standards, just listed half of the cast.
If we are really going by that jank is almost the majority, so all the not jank characters actually become jank by default.

This thread has been smoking tires for a while now.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

No, Chaos Camera Control is busted. Know your place, @ jtm94

 

[mimgrim]

Zelda because... sweetspots exist?

Have you ever played against a Zelda? The match ends up becoming nothing but jank.

And she ****s the camera up with her Side Special.

Most of those characters don't even compare to Oli or ICs; They are multiple ****ing characters

You are really stretching when you call the Pikmin other characters.

Being on the extreme end of a scale doesn't really seem jank, Like bowser's strength/size/slowness, Puffs size/weight/drifting, Luigi's traction/floatiness/low drifting

One has Armor galore, the other has an OHKO move, the other has randomness tied to him and has, overall, weird stuff to him as well. It's not (only) because of them being on extreme ends of the scale.

I guess every character is jank by your standards, just listed half of the cast.
If we are really going by that jank is almost the majority, so all the not jank characters actually become jank by default.

This thread has been smoking tires for a while now.

You should learn your math.

 

[Foo]

On the topic of Zelda's jankness. It's the teleport. The teleport is what makes her jank. That and her dtilt. And her lagless smashes. And her ftilt. And uptilt. You know what, just about everything.

But seriously, teleport is kinda silly. Unless you are really good at hard read and punishes (or just have good oos options) zelda can just kinda spam TP around the map and pressure you with it. If it hits, she connects into grab and lighting kick. Not really OP, but obnoxious.

Also, luigi is certainly jank.

My top 5.

1. Lucario
2. IC's
3. Luigi
4. Game and watch
5. Olimar

 

[Binary Clone]

One has Armor galore, the other has an OHKO move, the other has randomness tied to him and has, overall, weird stuff to him as well. It's not (only) because of them being on extreme ends of the scale.

Ike has burst movement offensive options including burst movement into grabs, aerials, wd mixups, usmash, etc, an OHKO move (technically) and armored attacks.

On the topic of Zelda's jankness. It's the teleport. The teleport is what makes her jank. That and her dtilt. And her lagless smashes. And her ftilt. And uptilt. You know what, just about everything.

But seriously, teleport is kinda silly. Unless you are really good at hard read and punishes (or just have good oos options) zelda can just kinda spam TP around the map and pressure you with it. If it hits, she connects into grab and lighting kick. Not really OP, but obnoxious.

Also, luigi is certainly jank.

My top 5.

1. Lucario
2. IC's
3. Luigi
4. Game and watch
5. Olimar

Zelda combos: usmash to usmash to usmash. Plus frame 3 dsmash. And... yeah, frame 3 and 5 fair and bair that are aerial killmoves. Oh yeah and teleport is funky too. Dsmash is frame 4, fair and bair are 8 and 5. So, eh.

Is Luigi mostly jank because of misfire stuff in your opinion?

 

[mimgrim]

Ike has burst movement offensive options including burst movement into grabs, aerials, wd mixups, usmash, etc, an OHKO move (technically) and armored attacks.

I don't want to deal with Ike mains ******** at me. :L

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

On the topic of Zelda's jankness. It's the teleport. The teleport is what makes her jank. That and her dtilt. And her lagless smashes. And her ftilt. And uptilt. You know what, just about everything.

But seriously, teleport is kinda silly. Unless you are really good at hard read and punishes (or just have good oos options) zelda can just kinda spam TP around the map and pressure you with it. If it hits, she connects into grab and lighting kick. Not really OP, but obnoxious.

Also, luigi is certainly jank.

My top 5.

1. Lucario
2. IC's
3. Luigi
4. Game and watch
5. Olimar

Zelda's teleport game is weakened with her changes in 3.5. The teleport is slower and isn't as abusable.
Is jank necessarily a bad thing?
Also is Lucario only jank because he only plays differently (as in a character with moves that connect into each other)?
Luigi: I don't understand why he's "jank". Because he has disjoints on some of his moves and has a long wavedash? I guess it depends on your definition of the word.

 

[mimgrim]

Jank is only bad when its Melee Shine. :L

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I don't want to deal with Ike mains *****ing at me. :L

Please I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge Ike as JankLord, wielder of Janknell

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wut.

 

[mimgrim]

Please I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge Ike as JankLord, wielder of Janknell

Every other time I see Ike brought up as jank I see nothing but Ike mains defending the opposite. lol

 

[jtm94]

Zelda combos: usmash to usmash to usmash. Plus frame 3 dsmash. And... yeah, frame 3 and 5 fair and bair that are aerial killmoves. Oh yeah and teleport is funky too.

Is Luigi mostly jank because of misfire stuff in your opinion?

You mean frame 4 dsmash, frame 5 bair and frame 8 fair?

Unless you're a fastfaller why are you getting hit by multiple upsmashes? What is DI?
Where were people when her teleport was actually amazing? Now you can move fairly easily from platform to ground and ground to ground, but to go from ground to platform is fairly difficult now it isn't an amazing form of burst movement near the caliber of Ike's SideB.

Why did Wario lose the SideB that he could jump and act out of fast, crouch to deal with shielding opponents, had slight armor, and even lost the dash grab that looked like it while Ike can JC grab to deal with shield, fly through Diddy peanuts? Choose not to attack at all, jump into any aerial immediately, or wall jump and recover out of. How has this been overlooked?

Playing against Umbreon has made me come full-circle on Ike where he wasn't that difficult to deal with, to being more difficult to deal with than Sheik because once he grabs you you die. And he barely plays the character.

 

[Binary Clone]

You mean frame 4 dsmash, frame 5 bair and frame 8 fair?

You're right, my bad. Thanks for the correction.

Unless you're a fastfaller why are you getting hit by multiple upsmashes? What is DI?

I am a fastfaller, so... Yeah.

Where were people when her teleport was actually amazing? Now you can move fairly easily from platform to ground and ground to ground, but to go from ground to platform is fairly difficult now it isn't an amazing form of burst movement near the caliber of Ike's SideB.

Why did Wario lose the SideB that he could jump and act out of fast, crouch to deal with shielding opponents, had slight armor, and even lost the dash grab that looked like it while Ike can JC grab to deal with shield, fly through Diddy peanuts? Choose not to attack at all, jump into any aerial immediately, or wall jump and recover out of. How has this been overlooked?

Playing against Umbreon has made me come full-circle on Ike where he wasn't that difficult to deal with, to being more difficult to deal with than Sheik because once he grabs you you die. And he barely plays the character.

I definitely agree with you on Ike, though. There's a reason that he's high/top tier in the Lunchables list that most people seemed to agree with. One of the things I thought was supposed to be toned down was really powerful burst-movement options, but Ike still has a ton of options out of QD. I don't think anyone can argue that QD isn't one of the most powerful, almost definitely the most powerful burst movement option in the game right now.

 

[Boiko]

Spoiler

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:

This is Lunchables' tier list. Keep is mind, characters are not organized within their tiers.

A few edits I would make, feel free to agree/disagree.
Falco moves down to high tier
Ike moves up to top tier
Mario moves up to high tier
Peach moves down to lower mid tier
Ness moves up to upper mid tier
Link moves up to lower mid tier
Donkey Kong moves up to lower mid tier.

For an edited list of:

Spoiler

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:

Once again, in no particular order within their tier.

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Roy

Everyone else

 

[howbadisbad]

Spoiler

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:

This is Lunchables' tier list. Keep is mind, characters are not organized within their tiers.

A few edits I would make, feel free to agree/disagree.
Falco moves down to high tier
Ike moves up to top tier
Mario moves up to high tier
Peach moves down to lower mid tier
Ness moves up to upper mid tier
Link moves up to lower mid tier
Donkey Kong moves up to lower mid tier.

For an edited list of:

Spoiler

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:

Once again, in no particular order within their tier.

Why is marth in the same tier with all the characters he bodies?

You also posted the same list twice

 

[Boiko]

Why is marth in the same tier with all the characters he bodies?

You also posted the same list twice

Because everyone above him gives him a relatively hard time, and character's aren't within a specific order within their tiers.
Also, no I didn't.

 

[Player -0]

Why is gliding so dumb now? You have to go down to get momentum to go up but you can't go up. Wtf?

 

[Deleted member]

Falco being put in high tier and ike being in top tier are pretty bad changes

I also think ness is pretty mediocre right now, low mid tier fits him. I can see mario being high tier.

 

[howbadisbad]

Because everyone above him gives him a relatively hard time, and character's aren't within a specific order within their tiers.
Also, no I didn't.

I would definitely say the characters in upper mid have a harder time with marth than marth has with the characters in high tier.

 

[Boiko]

Falco being put in high tier and ike being in top tier are pretty bad changes

I also think ness is pretty mediocre right now, low mid tier fits him. I can see mario being high tier.

I think it's hard to make an argument that Falco stacks up as well against the rest of the cast as the rest of top tier. I think if anything, he's at the top of high, but not in top. Ike not only has combos out of grabs, he has burst movement, tons of KO potential, disjoint, and a surprisingly good recovery.

As for Ness, call it personal bias, but I think the character is silly good and has one of the best MU spreads across the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Top tier
High tier:
Upper mid tier:
Lower mid tier:
Low tier:
KILLLLLLLLLLL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE:

Changes: Marth and Mario in high tier
Link and DK in lower mid
Added oli/ics back

I don't know if I'll ever truly settle on a tier list, its really hard for a game like this. I'd rather leave it vague like this though, since organizing them by number 1-41 is really, really hard.

Also for boiko, Ike has obvious problems with characters that can stuff QD. He also has a problem vs some characters that can low profile stuff. He's not a strong enough character for top tier, but definitely high tier

Falco, while being the worst of the spacies, is still a spacie. He definitely like... loses 3 or 4 matchups now but hes still a top tier.

 

[mimgrim]

I just noticed this now buuuut, why is MK and Triple D low mid?

 

[DrinkingFood]

I feel MK should still be on par with other high tiers. He can still play super leftrightleft bros with the best of them, even if his throw game did go from amazing to above average it still does what a throw game needs to do at low percent. And he's got a fair bit of disjoint.

Also why is his DACUS only a 1 frame window who is responsible for this
@Strong Bad

 

[941]

Seems solid, but even without a bugfix I would say ICs are at least low tier.

 

[Deleted member]

MK isn't even close to on par with the other high tiers, he has VERY obvious and crippling problems. His left right left bros is pretty good, but he doesn't really convert as much since his punish game isn't broken anymore. His left right left bros also doesn't solve his problem of projectiles and CCing. Without 3.02 dair, projectiles actually are a problem now lol

 

[Ripple]

got bored, here is DDD's MU chart imo

-3:
-2:
-1:?
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

 

[DrinkingFood]

Not all those other top/high tiers have projectiles that need special tools to deal with them anyway. Fox/Marth/Roy/Ike/Falcon all either have none or have ones with no stun, ROB/Falco/Sheik's projectiles can only be dealt with by universal tools anyways (Shielding, PSing, general movement/good position, grabbing in gyro's case) since they cam't be clanked. And Yoshi's projectile isn't much of a neutral tool. MK's even faster than most of those characters sans Fox/falcon. The only ones that feel like they'd give him an issue with their projectiles are Mario/Samus/Tink/Diddy where the projectiles can cover a lot of vertical and horizontal space; he can't clank them out nor powershield all of them, but that's how most characters need to deal with these from time to time because they can be so numerous and high damage/stun, making them dangerous to shield and difficult to avoid. I could see him having problems particularly bad against them

MK has the same problems with CC he always did, but now his grabs at low percents more often lead to staggered scenarios instead of direct set-ups. That doesn't mean he can't get guaranteed damage, it just means the way it's done is more complex. 0% dthrow can lead to ftilt combo on Sheik-like characters/eventually sets up for tech chases like it used to/even later %s sends offstage further than it did before, uthrow can get follow-ups on floaties at low percents to mid percents, bthrow sends at a low angle either for gimps or can set up tech chases at 0 since his other throws can't

@ Ripple how on earth could DDD be beating sheik

 

[Boiko]

got bored, here is DDD's MU chart imo
+3:

...wut.

 

[Deleted member]

MKs issue with CC was less relevant due to his amazing dash grab and better grab followups. He could also just avoid interacting by dair'ing. It's a significantly larger problem in 3.5 compared to 3.02

Overall, MKs neutral isn't nearly as threatening as the other fast characters either since he can't jump at you with a knee from across the entire stage, or constantly be a threat to your shield like fox can. His options he converts from his DD really aren't incredible enough to put him around high tier. His 3.02 dair + his dash grab/grab followups are kind of what made him a character, since he was a constant threat who could also just say "dip" and air camp with dair.

Oh and also, his recovery is actually... gimpable now. In 3.02, when metaknight players were recovering, they'd press B and hit their forehead on the analog stick and one of their special buttons would magically bring him back to the stage.

Edit: I would however be ok with MK being in upper mid. He's definitely not trash, hes still a fast character with a sword lol. High tier just sounds like a stretch.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Ness does not have one of the best MU spreads. FE × STARFAX does, however.