Tier List Speculation

[trash?]

Is that because you pathologically oversimplify and misrepresent every dissenting point of view you come across?

he doesn't need a strawman, doesn't take much to make this thread look incredibly ridiculous over very little

 

[mimgrim]

So, how's that Bowser fellow faring so far?

The 6 frame jumpsquat was a huge buff and was what he needed the most.

Still think smash 4 has the best iteration of Bowser though.

 

[Strong Badam]

sorry seagull bro

guess you'll have to live with the fact that I was ranked above you through the life of 3.02 with a ****ing low tier and without a local I could go to every week to inflate my ranking.

them's the breaks

Waddle Dees Fired

 

[Vashimus]

Still think smash 4 has the scrubbiest iteration of Bowser though.

Fixed

 

[PootisKonga]

Since when does Bowser drop kick people
I don't get it

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Prob learned it from mario

 

[Frost | Odds]

Waddle Dees Fired

So how bout that new Wario? Are Link/Mewtwo/Ivy nearly as hard as they were? Any new tough matchups?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike doesn't "auto lose" to Sheik for ****s sake. His +5 endlag on QDA did not shift the MU 10+ points. His walljump nerf did not shift the MU 10+ points. His throw game, which ****s Sheik did not get changed. His combo game which corner carries at will did not change. The fact that he can yolo QD offstage into hitting Sheik so she has to take longer to recover did not change and the fact that Ike has possibly the most favorable way to keep hitting Sheik back off stage did not change.

The MU was 5-5 in 3.02 and is 5-5 in 3.5.

Get better.

Ike has difficulty with characters with low crouches. QD attack and Nair (and even spaced fair, though it's hard to convert off that) get CC'd easily while Sheik can duck under Ike's grab, making it really hard to start the (admittedly easy) juggles Ike has on her. Needles stuff out DD camping pretty well making baiting her difficult. In turn, Sheik's Dtilt after CC on spaced Nairs or grabbing after CC on QD (OOH WE SEE A NERF COMING INTO PLAY) sets Ike up well for her great combo game on him, which just makes approaching or getting anything started pretty difficult. A Sheik charging needles under a platform is really hard to approach.

Also excuse me? The loss of a walljump isn't significant against a character with a reliable semi-spike, i.e. the ability to knock Ike into the exact zone he can't recover from? Aerial QD sending into special fall on hit now isn't significant agains't Sheik's ledgejump bairs? Or even her own fair interceptions? Sheik was a soft counter to Ike in 3.02 and in 3.5 the MU did indeed get a little harder. It'll be pretty significant especially since 3.5 will be a little more prevalent in terms of Sheiks, I'd wager. 6-4 Sheik.

If having a good combo and edge-guard game on a character was all it took to win the MU against it, spacies would suck. Even if you don't believe they're broken, spacies very clearly are very good.

Thanks for the ad hominem and exacerbated tone though. Really conducive to discussion. I should just get better, like you, instead of complaining about how Ike wasn't nerfed enough on the Pikachu boards.

Oh, wait a minute ...

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

sorry seagull bro

guess you'll have to live with the fact that I was ranked above you through the life of 3.02 with a ****ing low tier and without a local I could go to every week to inflate my ranking.

them's the breaks

 

[Strong Badam]

So how bout that new Wario? Are Link/Mewtwo/Ivy nearly as hard as they were? Any new tough matchups?

Dunno yet, haven't had the chance to play him in tourney since 3.5 dropped. His toughest MUs are probably Fox and Marth though. Most of his previous tough MUs have been mitigated somewhat by design changes.

 

[Spralwers]

Sheik's crouch is even more difficult to deal with than others because she can move with it :x

I can picture Ganon and Falcon struggling with Sheik more in PM than melee. Hopefully the crouch+crawl doesn't end up being too difficult to deal with in the right hands.

 

[Tagxy]

Yeah! A nicer way to say it would definitely be "You're bad, go away"
gets the point across well imo

That's not what I said, your hesitant ego only took it as such. Also you and several other people around here have actually been telling people this essentially whenever they bring up criticisms of 3.5, given your reaction to my perceived dismissal maybe you could try actually being mature about it? Awhile after 3.0 people such as yourself also said recoveries were fine, any character could get top 8 in a big event, and fox was the only character that was too good. How about actually listening instead of trolling and dismissing?

Honestly Im surprised you would try to troll after saying this:

Jeez, I get you're salty about your character nerfs and everything but get off my ****.

A bit contradictory. You're acting as one of the most immature people on this board and have been the only one trolling, including in threads like this which are supposed to have serious competitive discussion. Then Im sure you wonder why people don't take PM seriously.

It's also pretty cute how a lot of the socal guys want to run 3.02 tourneys/fests. Just check their FB page, its hilarious LOL

Until they hand out trophies for trolling your jabs account for nothing. SoCal would wreck your region in any build, any game, any mod; along with virtually every other region, and demands respect where it's due.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

That's not what I said, your hesitant ego only took it as such. Also you and several other people around here have actually been telling people this essentially whenever they bring up criticisms of 3.5, given your reaction to my perceived dismissal maybe those criticisms arent as unwarranted as you believe. Awhile after 3.0 people such as yourself also said recoveries were fine, any character could get top 8 in a big event, and fox was the only character that was too good.

Honestly Im surprised you would try to troll after saying this:

A bit contradictory. You're acting as one of the most immature people on this board and have been the only one trolling, including in threads like this which are supposed to have serious competitive discussion. Then Im sure you wonder why people don't take PM seriously.

Until they hand out trophies for trolling your jabs account for nothing. SoCal would wreck your region in any build, any game, any mod; along with virtually every other region, and demands respect where it's due.

Take it to PMs. Stop cluttering the thread up with your egos.

That's *my* job.

 

[Tagxy]

It was partly directed to the past few pages of people just making fun of anyone who had any issue with 3.5. Of course excluding serious responses with discussion, I understand explaining mistaken understandings.

Edit: Just gonna edit it into this post regarding below. Unfortunately I can't know everyones age online but the boards would also be unpleasant if everyone behaved that way.

 

[PlateProp]

That's not what I said, your hesitant ego only took it as such. Also you and several other people around here have actually been telling people this essentially whenever they bring up criticisms of 3.5, given your reaction to my perceived dismissal maybe you could try actually being mature about it? Awhile after 3.0 people such as yourself also said recoveries were fine, any character could get top 8 in a big event, and fox was the only character that was too good. How about actually listening instead of trolling and dismissing?

Honestly Im surprised you would try to troll after saying this:

A bit contradictory. You're acting as one of the most immature people on this board and have been the only one trolling, including in threads like this which are supposed to have serious competitive discussion. Then Im sure you wonder why people don't take PM seriously.

Until they hand out trophies for trolling your jabs account for nothing. SoCal would wreck your region in any build, any game, any mod; along with virtually every other region, and demands respect where it's due.

You have to remember that Lunchables is 15 (I love you lunchables dun hurt me)

AND LOL

SoCal would not wreck DWF. Just no man xD

ACTUAL CONTRIBUTION TO THREAD:

So...Fox is high tier or something.

 

[Plum]

Fox is like Brawl Hyrule tier now

 

[Deleted member]

Since when does Bowser drop kick people
I don't get it

 

[Deleted member]

words

Actually, the reason I posted what I said was intentionally contradictory. It worked so I'm good~

 

[MudkipUniverse]

So.... ON TOPIC

I somehow switched TO mewtwo this update. I even discovered a technique. WHO DO YOU GUYS THINK ARE HIGH TIER

And also, I think roy's Dair was buffed.

 

[PootisKonga]

Spacies are high tier, NQA

And yes, Roy's sweetspot Dair is now a spike

 

[Deleted member]

Melee vets are high/top tier. Roy is basically a top 8 melee vet as well
uhh... I think toonlink is pretty good, he just sucks vs falcon/marth/fox/falco probably
Basically if your character was nearly unchanged from 3.02 to 3.5, your character is probably really good.

 

[PootisKonga]

Peach's only specific changes were to her Parasol, even Fox had his Usmash (negligibly) nerfed

 

[GP&B]

Ike top tier, let's rooooooooolll (i need to get better first ;; )

 

[shairn]

Melee vets are high/top tier. Roy is basically a top 8 melee vet as well
uhh... I think toonlink is pretty good, he just sucks vs falcon/marth/fox/falco probably
Basically if your character was nearly unchanged from 3.02 to 3.5, your character is probably really good.

How does Tink suck vs Falcon? All the Falcons I know hate the matchup.

 

[Deleted member]

In 3.02, tink destroys falcon.

In 3.5? Tinks neutral game is significantly worse, his punish game is harder since upsmash doesn't obliterate fast fallers, and his recovery is worse so he will actually die if falcon hits him offstage.

What can falcon do? Actually dash dance camp tink since his bomb distance is significantly worse, and destroy toonlink with tech chases due to tinks bad tech roll and/or uthrow combos since tink is a good combo weight for falcon

 

[shairn]

I see, I didn't realize Tink had changed that much in 3.5.

 

[Deleted member]

How does Tink suck vs Falcon? All the Falcons I know hate the matchup.

><><><><><><><><><><>> grab > things > KO

dodge spam

seems bad for TL to me

 

[Deleted member]

Tink changed quite a bit in 3.5 actually

Worse bomb throw distance
grounded up b animation sped up and cannot move unless charged
upsmash is 1 slice and only combos at certain %s instead of every %
Recovery nerfs due to AGT and Tether
Fair has more startup, more l cancel landing lag, and a flub hitbox
Brawl nair
Throws are now a 50/50 between f and d throw when trying to get the kill
A few more things like U tilt IASA is later and firespike being fixed

Only buff was something that honestly shouldn't have been buffed... rang does 19% sweetspot now instead of 14%, which is absolutely ******** (It's Melee YL Rang)

 

[shairn]

><><><><><><><><><><>> grab > things > KO

dodge spam

seems bad for TL to me

wow very insight
much thanks

 

[GP&B]

(It's Melee YL Rang)

What. That's almost as ridiculous as Melee Mario's Dair range.

 

[Deleted member]

wow very insight
much thanks

i know it sounds sarcastic but a lot of MUs really are that stupid lol

can i interest you in an hour of falcon vs bowser?

(you're the bowser)

 

[Deleted member]

LMAO
Falcon vs. Bowser on FD... Umbreon hold me

 

[PootisKonga]

100-0's are clearly fun, right?

 

[shairn]

i know it sounds sarcastic but a lot of MUs really are that stupid lol

can i interest you in an hour of falcon vs bowser?

(you're the bowser)

Yes actually

 

[Deleted member]

LMAO
Falcon vs. Bowser on FD... Umbreon hold me

we could join NAMBLA i guess

 

[leekslap]

Is there any blatantly too good or too bad characters? I think characters that are good at gimping ( Meta Knight and Sheik ), fast characters that can keep you locked down with pressure/combos ( spacies duh ), and have godlike movement because of his glide, spin dash, and an extremely good dash dance PLUS great power and easy kill setups ( *cough*leaked character*cough* ) will be the cream of the crop in this version( or the next ). IDK about bad characters though ( which is why I'm here ).

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You're saying too many words, just use falco.

 

[leekslap]

You're saying too many words, just use falco.

Um... I do main Falco? IDK if this post is directed at me so...

 

[Frost | Odds]

i know it sounds sarcastic but a lot of MUs really are that stupid lol

can i interest you in an hour of falcon vs bowser?

(you're the bowser)

This is pretty much my life.

My fetal position tech is coming along nicely

 

[Player -0]

Tink changed quite a bit in 3.5 actually

Worse bomb throw distance
grounded up b animation sped up and cannot move unless charged
upsmash is 1 slice and only combos at certain %s instead of every %
Recovery nerfs due to AGT and Tether
Fair has more startup, more l cancel landing lag, and a flub hitbox
Brawl nair
Throws are now a 50/50 between f and d throw when trying to get the kill
A few more things like U tilt IASA is later and firespike being fixed

Only buff was something that honestly shouldn't have been buffed... rang does 19% sweetspot now instead of 14%, which is absolutely ******** (It's Melee YL Rang)

Why was firespike changed?