Tier List Speculation

[The Milk Monster]

guys.....what if Ics could hit taunt and then immediately switch places with each other. Popo becomes nana and vice versa. Imagine how cool and good they now become. @DMG

I second this, because, really, that'd be pretty great.

 

[Bebop86]

There's about three things that absolutely murder my hype when I'm watching P:M sets.

a) Fox
b) Mewtwo
c) Ivy

Mario is at least still fun to watch ...

(Diddy goes without saying.)

Yup, Mario so fun to watch. Just like the M2K set on Norfair where he literally pill camped the entire match. So fun rite? Kappa

 

[didds]

So since I've been here last, here's what's changed:

-Yoshi exists, but is weird, oh and his recovery is "the worst", but he's solid, but no one plays him
-Fox is old news
-@_Odds is a **** who ******* about Ivy, but he's not actually and is reasonable or something? idk
-@DMG hasn't mentioned fireballs in awhile (quite concerning tbh)


things that haven't changed:
-@1FD is still probably the coolest guy here
-M2 is still supreme overlord
-I still don't know why I'm here

 

[Frost | Odds]

Eh, I mostly get mad when people conflate my tone with the substance of my argument. Being salty about ivy != thinking she's the strongest / most poorly designed char in the game.

So what's the deal with Sheik? She seems to have decent MUs on most of the cast, but doesn't seem to see a hell of a lot of play. M2K cries about her being 'worthless' and having 'no use for her', though I suspect that's because everyone else he plays (fox, mario, m2) is just on a different level of brokenness. Of course you're not going to have a lot of use for a Ford Taurus when you've got the garage of a Saudi prince.

That said, it kinda feels like karmic justice that she now loses to Link.

Yup, Mario so fun to watch. Just like the M2K set on Norfair where he literally pill camped the entire match. So fun rite? Kappa

 

[mimgrim]

Don't take what M2K says about the characters in P:M too seriously. He has a bit of a tendency to over exaggerate some of the characters in P:M. He probably says that about sheik since she plays rather differently then she does in Melee, all things consider, and D-throw isn't free anymore.

 

[Frost | Odds]

It took him forever to admit that m2 was even high tier. I still don't think he's acknowledged that he's by far the best in the game

 

[_Chrome]

It took him forever to admit that m2 was even high tier. I still don't think he's acknowledged that he's by far the best in the game

He has stated there are six "God Characters" (after a match against Neon's Lucas):
-Pit
-Mewtwo
-Lucas
-Diddy
-Sonic
-Link
(In no particular order)

Here's the link to the match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFhHxRGhYk

And the interview afterwards if you don't want to see all the hype...
About 40:00

 

[Frost | Odds]

Welp. Fox, Mario, and MK obviously all suck

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I accept m2ks thoughts for sheik. Other PM related stuff, not so much.

 

[Ningildo]

Guys, why are we quoting M2K's words almost as much as eventhubs tier list? He's one of the best players around, but his opinion is still just that and using those as a gospel is not really gonna help anything. An opinion will always have bias (I think this much is known), but the fact that, despite that, some users consider it completely faultless scares me (that said, I can agree with part of it, mainly M2, Diddy and Lucas (to an extent))

Pills are ******** no matter what anyone says, though.

 

[_Chrome]

This is just a matchup based game, so no matter what when people think about tier lists they revolve it around their own experiences and as such many people disagree about many placements. Except for Mewtwo, Lucas and Diddy. Pretty much everyone agrees that they are overpowered.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't think Diddy is OP. I think the majority of P:M players just suck at item play.

 

[steelguttey]

smash boards member tier list

S tier: red pikmin
**** tier: everyone else

**** join dates

 

[didds]

Let's get rid of ice climbers as a character, and then change DeDeDe so that he throws ice climbers instead of waddles.

gold

 

[TreK]

I cringe so hard when I see non-diddy players toss the bananas offstage in grand finals.

 

[Deleted member]

i cringe so hard when i see diddy in grand finals.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I mean, diddy is right up in the top 3 characters. What do you expect?

Yea, pm players need to work on the item game.

 

[Rᴏb]

Is asking players to have a good item game despite them playing characters that don't use items a fair request? Specifically, I'm talking about bananas.

I don't really know the answer to that, but I do know that it makes the Diddy matchup that much more complex. Complex in a way that isn't really comparable to any other matchup in PM. Now is that a good or a bad thing? Again, I don't have an answer to that, but I kinda want to see what Diddy would be like with his Smash 4 banana toss.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Because of how popular diddy is, along with the fact that he is a top tier character, I think all players should have at least, some level of item game.

 

[didds]

Let's get rid of diddy kong as a character, and then change DeDeDe so that he throws diddy kongs instead of waddles.

gold

 

[InfinityCollision]

Learning to deal with items is no different than learning any other matchup quirk. It's not even a Diddy specific thing, good item game is helpful in the Peach, Link, Tink, and ROB matchups too.

 

[kevinw0w]

I don't think Diddy is OP. I think the majority of P:M players just suck at item play.

people love to throw this sentiment out to defend Diddy and it's true that most people really don't have good item play, but IMO it's simply not enough to conclude that Diddy is "not OP"

1. he's still a very good character without bananas. great DD and movement in general, superb combo game, multiple kill options, great recovery, etc.
2. as aforementioned, don't you think it's expecting a bit much for players to be good at item play when their main doesn't have any? No one has a stronger item game than Diddy and asking players to use bananas competently for this one specific matchup is a little over-centralizing.
3. the majority of the cast is simply can not use bananas as well as Diddy can. poor running speed and/or short wavedashes limits opportunities to pick up bananas. some characters do not have grounded glide-tosses and others have atrocious throwing animations.

 

[Frost | Odds]

It's also worth noting that Diddy's item grab range is freakin enormous on top of his glide toss being amazing (and his DA not tripping/can pick up bananas) -- his item game pretty much outclasses anyone else's by default.

 

[Strong Badam]

afaik there aren't character-specific item pick up boxes.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Really? Does it just scale with size, or is there a one-size-fits-all box for that? Does it change with airdodge vs z-pickup?

Weird, anyway. I have a much easier time picking up bananas with Diddy than with most other characters, though that may be due to his movement properties or something else.

 

[Player -0]

The day of reckoning has arrived

 

[steelguttey]

this was something that needed to happen

 

[Jacob29]

I cringe so hard when I see non-diddy players toss the bananas offstage in grand finals.

why? some character have statistically worse item game.

why even keep them in play if you are at a factual disadvantage by doing so.

irregardless of whether your item play game is better, if you're character can't do well with it, then they can't do well with it.

 

[JOE!]

*****, that's my thing

 

[trash?]

remember that M2K went into this thread flat-out lying about frame data on link to prove he's secretly the best character in the game

also, thought ness was top tier because he forgot to meteor cancel awestin's dairs every time he landed one

 

[Ogopogo]

If you have trouble with Diddy's bananos, practice with pokeballs on high with someone. Refine your AGT and glide toss skills. Or, just pick up Luigi

 

[CyberZixx]

The day of reckoning has arrived

I hope something gets done to mewtwo's on top of this change. Even 5 woops would be too strong a tactic.

 

[KayB]

Bananas are kinda bull**** when they limit your movement to almost redonkulous levels

 

[mimgrim]

people love to throw this sentiment out to defend Diddy and it's true that most people really don't have good item play, but IMO it's simply not enough to conclude that Diddy is "not OP"

Possibly. But I don't believe it and won't believe it until people get good at item play.

he's still a very good character without bananas. great DD and movement in general, superb combo game, multiple kill options, great recovery, etc.

I'll give you movement and kill options. But his combo game, without Nanners, while good, isn't amazing. And his recovery is decent at best. That's the other thing people need to get good at in this game. ****ing edge guarding. Most of the recoveries people complain about aren't even a problem if people just learned how to edge guard properly in this game.

as aforementioned, don't you think it's expecting a bit much for players to be good at item play when their main doesn't have any? No one has a stronger item game than Diddy and asking players to use bananas competently for this one specific matchup is a little over-centralizing.

It's no different from learning any other match-up. Item play is also useful against more then just Diddy. But again people ****ing suck at item play in this game.

the majority of the cast is simply can not use bananas as well as Diddy can. poor running speed and/or short wavedashes limits opportunities to pick up bananas. some characters do not have grounded glide-tosses and others have atrocious throwing animations.

They don't have to use them as well as him, just consistently get them from him (which every character can do, albeit some better then others). As long as you can consistently steal them from him, you are effectively limiting him.

 

[Strong Badam]

Actually the main problem characters have dealing with bananas is slow item throw animations. Roy's are over twice as long as Diddy's are.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually the main problem characters have dealing with bananas is slow item throw animations. Roy's are over twice as long as Diddy's are.

can we make roy throw the bananas as fast as diddy and also on fire?

 

[PlateProp]

can we make roy throw the bananas as fast as diddy and also on fire?

Everything Roy does should be on fire.

Edit: Especially his Wavedashes.

They need a fire trail.

 

[_Chrome]

Everything Roy does should be on fire.

Edit: Especially his Wavedashes.

They need a fire trail.

His blast zone death needs to be the fires of hell

 

[jtm94]

Sheik beats Link as far as I know, or at least does decent against him.

Any character with a solid wavedash can deal with items. Falling faster and having aerial mobility helps a bit so you can make use of the items faster. Game and Watch has a cannon arm, but he takes a considerable amount of time to throw back items while grounded. Diddy also has really good options out of footstool with bananas like guaranteed fsmashes. He can also AGT down out of his SideB meteor and instantly fsmash to punish a trip from the banana, even if it gets teched he isn't punished and it hits through shield. All of this banana talk and his peanuts are almost as good as fireballs, they just don't bounce and make annoying sounds.

 

[didds]

Squirtle vs Diddy gets easier when he pulls bananas out.

Nerf Diddy, then you nerf Squirtle.

Why do you guys want to nerf Squirtle? ****in Whiners