Tier List Speculation

[Phan7om]

I was literally about to say almost the same thing

 

[1FD]

I watched june vs njlink and it was the first PM i'd seen in probably 2 months.
And now I know why there's so much lulz about how people need learn to edgeguard diddy.
They were both playing diddy against each other, and doing well, but the edgegame was **** as **** *** by both players.

I'm gonna straight up disagree with Peach having a hard time with diversity in matchup spread in PM, I think whoever thinks peach struggles with range and stuff is sillypants.

@ Shokio Yeah Yoshi a beast
If peeps are getting combo-broken by Luigi Nairs and Zelda Deathkicks then it's just kind of poor play by the comboer in the matchup. At least, if it's just trying a combo and then getting hit out of it. Combos on them are really easy to bait out a Nair/DK if the Zelda/Luigi is the Nair/DK outofhitstun spammer, which is good for the person fighting them. lol

Wario is like sex with his mixups. Solid character.

Also Ike is cool and fun too, ain't as sexy though

 

[Plum]

Nerfing recoveries, 3.5 Sheik da bess

 

[Circle_Breaker]

yeah I've been working on switching from Sonic to Sheik since I realized I wanted a main that would teach me to play with solid fundamentals, not be cheesy and polarizing, and avoid future nerfs. this news is therefore making me wet.

needle to da face *****. my friend rages when i needle gimp his ness. can't wait to snipe cheesefests like mario better.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Mewtwo needs nerfs.
Pit needs nerfs
Diddy needs nerfs
Mario needs nerfs

These four characters people have been complaining about forever. None of them need big changes (the biggest change is for Mewtwo is a tail nerf and no more Hover out of Teleport) but they need subtle, smart changes.

Then PM will be pretty well balanced after that.

For the people who said Yoshi and Wario suck, we saw at Zentih strong performances from Raptor and Jreed.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

You forgot Sonic, ************ stepped it up too hard and now everyone else is too slow (for his downB and wild recovery options)

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

the amount of circlejerking that is about to happen is ridiculous

Showed my grandma your post, she asked what a circlejerk was so I tried to explain but pretty much failed.

We the decided to google search it and let me tell you this:

NEVER GOOGLE CIRCLEJERKING!!!

 

[PlateProp]

You forgot Sonic, mother****er stepped it up too hard and now everyone else is too slow (for his downB and wild recovery options)

Actually, Squirtle is faster than Sanik

Guess Sanic was all talk if he could be outsped by a turtle

 

[Ripple]

I don't think I've ever once seen someone say wario sucks

 

[PlateProp]

GG Sanik mains

 

[Shokio]

Mewtwo needs nerfs.
Pit needs nerfs
Diddy needs nerfs
Mario needs nerfs

These four characters people have been complaining about forever. None of them need big changes (the biggest change is for Mewtwo is a tail nerf and no more Hover out of Teleport) but they need subtle, smart changes.

Then PM will be pretty well balanced after that.

For the people who said Yoshi and Wario suck, we saw at Zentih strong performances from Raptor and Jreed.

I would personally add Link to that list. His knockback growth on some of his moves are ********. And he has guaranteed DThrow < Uair/Dair on almost the entire roster at really high percents. I've seen a DThrow into Dair on JIGGLYPUFF at 150%+. Crazy.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I would personally add Link to that list. His knockback growth on some of his moves are ********. And he has guaranteed DThrow < Uair/Dair on almost the entire roster at really high percents. I've seen a DThrow into Dair on JIGGLYPUFF at 150%+. Crazy.

Eh, Link is dumb, but he's not jank. His dthrow may be insane, but he can't chaingrab because his grab is slow.

 

[Shokio]

Eh, Link is dumb, but he's not jank. His dthrow may be insane, but he can't chaingrab because his grab is slow.

You don't have to be considered jank to be nerfed, at least not in my eyes. I've seen a Link juggle someone with 4 boomerang hits and then Fair'd them for the kill. It's not "jank" but still ******** nonetheless. (His strong semi-spike on the UpB is though)

 

[victinivcreate1]

If he got juggled by Boomerang, he was definitely DI'ing incorrectly. I've had this happened to me and as soon as I learned how to DI this it never happened again.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

Link's Boomerang comes out really quickly and confirms into almost anything. Only moves I haven't seen boomerang confirm were Grab and Ledge Attack, and the latter is only because no one's actually attempted it!

...It probably works.

 

[Plum]

GG Sanik mains

Sonic has access to his speed at all times with no need for a decently telegraphed setup.

 

[PlateProp]

Sonic has access to his speed at all times with no need for a decently telegraphed setup.

Have fun trying to hit Squirtle while he's moving faster than Sonic back and forth with an almost constant armored hitbox

Also Sonic's spins are extremely telegraphed wtf are you talking about
(that was a joke btw, ffs no real Squirtle main actually does this except to taunt cuz wynaut)

 

[Shokio]

If he got juggled by Boomerang, he was definitely DI'ing incorrectly. I've had this happened to me and as soon as I learned how to DI this it never happened again.

Well, the guy was off-stage so he couldn't really DI away in any direction, and the link was standing at a close of enough position where the boomerang would come back quickly, allowing him to read any kind of DI in time. It was reminiscent of how Pit juggles people off-stage with allows, just at a closer distance.

 

[steelguttey]

Have fun trying to hit Squirtle while he's moving faster than Sonic back and forth with an almost constant armored hitbox

Also Sonic's spins are extremely telegraphed wtf are you talking about
(that was a joke btw, ffs no real Squirtle main actually does this except to taunt cuz wynaut)

hes not moving faster tho. sonic still is moving faster when he runs

and even then he cant act out of that until the very end

and yes squirtle mains do this its one of his best punishes and its hella ez

 

[Bleck]

except it was considered across the board that the recovery:edgeguard ratio was a bit silly, even by most PM-centric players

yeah I forgot that the loudest voice is by far the most correct apparently

you're being a gigantic child about a change only you've been extremely against. if you want brawl so badly just play brawl fer christ sake

canon you're smarter than this

Aren't you always ranting about people whining over Smash 4 things when they haven't even played the game?
I get the criticism and all, but you don't exactly have a lot to go off of as to how drastic the nerfs will be, or who they'll affect.

You're right.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Bleck can you please go back to the smash4 forums
It's clear PM is only a temporary distraction to you while you wait for smash4, and your opinions are reflective of your awful taste
I've tried really hard to not dislike you but with every post you seem more and more deplorable

 

[Bleck]

Bleck can you please go

Nah.

 

[Deleted member]

link is fine and doesnt need changed tbh

 

[9bit]

In other news, what does everyone think about the Zenith top 8? Does it affect your tiers!? Reinforce them!!?

 

[Arrow (Kyle)]

Have fun trying to hit Squirtle while he's moving faster than Sonic back and forth with an almost constant armored hitbox

Also Sonic's spins are extremely telegraphed wtf are you talking about
(that was a joke btw, ffs no real Squirtle main actually does this except to taunt cuz wynaut)

I do it though... It's not even that telegraphed and serves as decent mixup tbh. You'll get it once per set or so when using it as a mixup so wynaut?

 

[PlateProp]

hes not moving faster tho. sonic still is moving faster when he runs

and even then he cant act out of that until the very end

and yes squirtle mains do this its one of his best punishes and its hella ez

Squirtle mains do no hydro f smash back and forth like that other than for taunting, because it would be stupid and easily punished.

People need to stop reading so much into this joke :u

 

[RaptorTEC]

Do people really think Yoshi is bad lol. I don't think anyone has even come close to using him at his full potential and even then I'd say he's at the top of mid tier currently. I wish aMSa would use him and adapt to the few buffs he got to show what he's capable of.

 

[Plum]

Also Sonic's spins are extremely telegraphed wtf are you talking about

I wasn't talking about spins tho
Sonic has this great tool, of which he happens to have the fastest in the game, called running

 

[didds]

Do people really think Yoshi is bad lol. I don't think anyone has even come close to using him at his full potential and even then I'd say he's at the top of mid tier currently. I wish aMSa would use him and adapt to the few buffs he got to show what he's capable of.

Who needs aMSa when they got us

Squirtle has burst movement, no one really thinks his raw speed is better than Sonic's.

 

[Cassio]

oh god im so scared

the top 3 in zenith right now is pit, diddy and mewtwo.

the amount of circlejerking that is about to happen is ridiculous

Its the fulfillment of the prophecy.

May the PMBR have mercy on their nerfs

Still Zenith top 8 results were pretty hilarious. Mewtwo, Diddy, a b-t-b victory for Pit, and a Mario thrown in for good measure.

Also Sonic and Link are gud but Im pretty sure no one would think theyre broken if M2K didnt constantly repeat it. Maybe they are but I havent really seen anything to indicate this except maybe wizzy being too good at smash. But if we're using wizzy results its time to make yoshi top tier in 64 .

 

[Circle_Breaker]

I still think if this game was played for years in its current form Diddy would end up lower than people are placing him. Not that he isn't great, just that growing matchup experience will slowly make him less and less potent. Especially because one of his best tools can be stolen pretty easily and used against him, especially well by more mobile characters like . I was being facetious when I said mid tier - more like the top of high tier. Outside of a top tier of like , Diddy would be next.

 

[Arrow (Kyle)]

You can't even say that ZeRo won as Pit because for the majority of Zenith he was going Fox.

You can't even say any of these characters need huge nerfs maybe a small tweak here to slightly balance something but nothing huge is needed. Just some endlag on Mewtwo's nair, fixing the angle on Diddy's Fair and Making wall jump harder to preform with mario like it was in Melee. There should be nothing to complain about after that is done imho.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Am I really the only one who thinks Snake is top tier?

 

[Phan7om]

Im just gonna say it, but with all the stuff the PMBR has added into this game; in order to make it half way as good as Melee a lot of stuff will have to be reworked entirely. Not that you guys havent heard this before, but ill just say the cast needs more than minor tweaks.

 

[Arrow (Kyle)]

Am I really the only one who thinks Snake is top tier?

Snake sucks.

No but really Snake is a good character but he isn't top tier simply because he has MU issues and his game relies heavily on sticky setups, which is harder than people make it seem.

 

[Paradoxium]

I'm pretty sure the community already went through the Diddy Kong circle jerk back in the Brawl days, just give it some time. When people learn how to edge guard his one dimensional recovery and learn how to handle his bananas he won't be as good as he may seem.

 

[Cassio]

Mewtwo its blatant why he's so good by now even though I wasnt too sure before emukiller.

Pit I still dont understand myself, but I have a hard time ignoring Zero's ability to find the most broken thing in any smash game and use it to his success.

Diddy I called long before he was seeing any success, and between the three still has the most untapped potential IMO. He has all the tools that made him successful in Brawl which transferred over more than well into PM. Anyone hoping that he'll fall are going to be waiting till the end of PM, because peeps said the same thing about Brawl diddy and bananas and it never happened (for many reasons not worth delving into, but its evident in his continued success).

Specutlation but I actually expect fox to be the one to get unneeded nerfs. It feels the PMBR have a bias against him, but I cant tell if thats most or just the ones that speak most publicly about it.

 

[Mr.Random]

I was thinking about Fox's Upsmash lately. It's not a broken move in the slightest. It's knockback is just insane and it has no sourspot at the beginning. I feel in order to balance it they would need to make it like Pikachu's where the sourspots don't do jack **** and the sweetspot needs to be spaced.
I was thinking make the middle part the sweetspot that does 18 damage and the inside and outside do 16 damage with slightly less growth. While the back part of it doesn't do jack ****.

 

[jtm94]

Fox is still capable of beating any of the top characters and dominating the rest. It's still a problem even if he has a bad MU or so, that doesn't balance anything out.

Diddy's recovery is easy to stop, but by the time he really falls he can initiate it again and just keep attempting repeatedly to make it back or overshoot the edge entirely. Barrels don't do that much, but sometimes both hit and it puts the defender in a bad spot. Once his recovery is normalized I think he can be beaten by a more developed meta.

Mewtwo has been too good the moment I saw the release trailer. Teleport is like MK nado in Brawl, it be over there, yeah it be over there, try to air dodge at the ground and shadow claw will be over there.

I also don't know what Pit's deal is. Even if he is good I feel like I'd rather face him than the other chars still, but he also has decent recovery. Maybe too much hitstun on fair? that's the BnB of everything, dair to fair to fair to fair arrow fair dead.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Its the fulfillment of the prophecy.

.

This picture
LMAOOOO