Tier List Speculation

[Frost | Odds]

Are you making fun of Pikachu?

If the prosthetics fit~

Shadow Ball isn't some godly projectile lol.

troll detected

 

[victinivcreate1]

If the prosthetics fit~


troll detected

LMFAO johns confirmed

If Shadow Ball is a godly projectile, I hate to see what you call Falco's Lasers and Mario's Fire Balls.

 

[Frost | Odds]

In a vacuum, those projectiles are certainly better.

On a platform that can teleport->aerial or grab out of the projectile, Shadow Ball is something else.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Shadow Ball is pretty versatile, especially in the context of Mewtwo's complete kit. Decent for camping, decent kill option, can be used to control space in various ways that are mildly annoying to deal with due to the odd movement pattern, etc.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Shadow Ball is pretty versatile, especially in the context of Mewtwo's complete kit. Decent for camping, decent kill option, can be used to control space in various ways that are mildly annoying to deal with due to the odd movement pattern, etc.

In the Falco MU, you are not SB camping

In the Link MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Samus MU, you are not SB camping

In the TL MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Mario MU you are not SB camping.

In the Diddy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Ivy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Fox MU you are not SB camping.

In the Sheik MU you are not SB camping.

In the Zelda MU you are not SB camping.

Need I say more?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I would say that it's good, but not dumb and abusable. I think his shadow ball is fine.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Need I say more?

I'd prefer you not say anything, but alas.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

I'm still confused as to why everyone thinks Pikachu is this low tier character. A lot of the complaints about his weaknesses are apparent with 50% of the cast, and most of these members don't even have his strengths.

I'm conflicted about this. On paper he has some great tools. In practice he feels limited and awkward. He has a high tech skill barrier with one of the worst ratios of required tech skill to payoff in the game. He isn't totally horrible if you're really good, but being as good with just about any other character will take you so much further. On the whole I do think this makes him a weak character, and the worst part is that he's weak at all levels of play - relative to the rest of the cast he reaches his best position at high levels (unlike, say, Zelda), but he still disappoints. The best buffs for Pika would reward highly skilled play more and bring him in line with high skill/high reward characters like the spacies.

 

[Vashimus]

In the Falco MU, you are not SB camping

In the Link MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Samus MU, you are not SB camping

In the TL MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Mario MU you are not SB camping.

In the Diddy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Ivy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Fox MU you are not SB camping.

In the Sheik MU you are not SB camping.

In the Zelda MU you are not SB camping.

Need I say more?

It thought this meant Strong Bad camping and was confused.

Get out of my head, Adam.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I'd prefer you not say anything, but alas.

Bruh. Mewtwo's tool kit makes camping effective. Without his TP>Hover, its a lot more manageable. Think about it. If Mario had a TP, his Fire Ball game would be nigh on impossible. Combine this with the fact that Mario' fireballs are better than Shadow Balls in every aspect and you have a game breaker. Mewtwo's Shadow Balls on paper aren't super amazing. Its just that he has the mobility options to enhance it and make it seem better than it is.

@ Circle_Breaker most PM players are very easily convinced that X character is broken. I don't see why we should buff Pika (where then all the scrubs will scream "Peeka brucken, my slop0ke char haz no toolz 2beet hem, he needz 2b nurfd insted of my char buffed), when he is already good.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

right, because lucario's projectile just sucks.

 

[victinivcreate1]

right, because lucario's projectile just sucks.

I think its good. 15% with decent KB, Spirit Bomb huge, does 25%, etc.

But it definitely beatable. Nowhere near broken, nowhere near trash.

Worst projectile IMO is Luigi's Fire Balls.

 

[Deleted member]

In the Falco MU, you are not SB camping

In the Link MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Samus MU, you are not SB camping

In the TL MU, you are not SB camping.

In the Mario MU you are not SB camping.

In the Diddy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Ivy MU you are not SB camping.

In the Fox MU you are not SB camping.

In the Sheik MU you are not SB camping.

In the Zelda MU you are not SB camping.

Need I say more?

You say that you *could* be SB camping, because Shadow Ball is pretty versatile, especially in the context of Mewtwo's complete kit.

 

[Paradoxium]

Bruh. Mewtwo's tool kit makes camping effective. Without his TP>Hover, its a lot more manageable. Think about it. If Mario had a TP, his Fire Ball game would be nigh on impossible. Combine this with the fact that Mario' fireballs are better than Shadow Balls in every aspect and you have a game breaker. Mewtwo's Shadow Balls on paper aren't super amazing. Its just that he has the mobility options to enhance it and make it seem better than it is.

@ Circle_Breaker most PM players are very easily convinced that X character is broken. I don't see why we should buff Pika (where then all the scrubs will scream "Peeka brucken, my slop0ke char haz no toolz 2beet hem, he needz 2b nurfd insted of my char buffed), when he is already good.

Yo i think pikachu is good, but I'm still expecting my buffs bro. You can argue that Pikachu is good, but don't go telling people he doesn't need buffs.

I would like to see

1- Bigger grab range
2- Uthrow to match melee
3- Dthrow to match melee (Or be as cheap as every other characters dthrows)
4- B throw sends opponents farther (I want bthrow to set up for edge guards)
5- Side B changed (This move sucks, even when recovering)

imo all pikachu needs is a fixed grab game

 

[victinivcreate1]

You say that you *could* be SB camping, because Shadow Ball is pretty versatile, especially in the context of Mewtwo's complete kit.

You can do anything type of playstyle you want in PM whether that'd be high aggression, defensive juggernaut, a stuffer, hit and run, fake out, camping, etc. Question is, is Shadow Ball camping Mewtwo's most effective option, considering his expansive amount of options. That'd be like Lucas camping with PK Freeze. Sure its a decent projectile, and he has a reflector to beat opposing camping as well. But Lucas' own combo game and mobility is off the charts. Camping is not the best option for Lucas. Same with Mewtwo. He can camp no problem. But rush down aggression, stuffing, and fake outs work much better with his tools.

 

[Ripple]

if there's one thing I've definitely noticed about people wanting their character buffed. it's that they want every one of their characters throws to be good at something.

every character having a very specific use throw is rather dumb imo.

 

[Paradoxium]

if there's one thing I've definitely noticed about people wanting their character buffed. it's that they want every one of their characters throws to be good at something.

every character having a very specific use throw is rather dumb imo.

Well the thing is Pikachu's up and Dthrows are supposed to match melee's, but for some reason the release points are off so the uthrow and dthrow sends them farther away

 

[Strong Badam]

You say that you *could* be SB camping, because Shadow Ball is pretty versatile, especially in the context of Mewtwo's complete kit.

Strong Bad Camping is a very powerful strategy.

 

[trash?]

is strong bad camping when you play DK and hope they walk into your jabs

 

[victinivcreate1]

Strong Bad Camping is a very powerful strategy.

I WANT A NERF TO STRONG BAD CAMPING. ITS OP AND THE SOUND EFFECT IS SUPER ANNOYING TOO.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

if there's one thing I've definitely noticed about people wanting their character buffed. it's that they want every one of their characters throws to be good at something.

every character having a very specific use throw is rather dumb imo.

Would you rather characters have throws that do nothing lol? That seems kind of dumb. Note I'm not saying every character needs godlike throws.

 

[Ripple]

I'd rather have other characters have some throws like falcon, ganon, and yoshi's f-throw or b-throw. terrible throws that don't really lead to much but you only use them because you're other throws will give you nothing also and its something your opponent rarely if ever sees.

 

[Paradoxium]

Yo i think pikachu is good, but I'm still expecting my buffs bro. You can argue that Pikachu is good, but don't go telling people he doesn't need buffs.

I would like to see

1- Bigger grab range
2- Uthrow to match melee
3- Dthrow to match melee (Or be as cheap as every other characters dthrows)
4- B throw sends opponents farther (I want bthrow to set up for edge guards)
5- Side B changed (This move sucks, even when recovering)

imo all pikachu needs is a fixed grab game

I want to change what i said about Pikachu's bthrow, since it doesn't throw them very far, edge guards are easier.

 

[Deleted member]

Strong Bad Camping is a very powerful strategy.

is that where you camp strong bad because he plays slow fat characters that lose to cheese?

 

[Circle_Breaker]

Look at Pika on the melee tier list. you think QAC and a new bair are enough for him in PROJECT M?

I don't even know what to say. Look at the buffs his peers mario and samus got. go down a tier and look at what all those B tier ****ers got (hint: more than a tier's worth of buffs). pika isn't bad for a melee character; he is totally underwhelming in P:M. Honestly I think his design is great but everyone else is so good that learning Pika isn't worth the effort for a competitive player - unless you're trying to pick a main that will fly under the nerf radar no matter what. I argue for Pika buffs because it seems more sensible and likely than blanket nerfs for .

 

[Deleted member]

you forgot pit and diddy at least

 

[Circle_Breaker]

Diddy secretly mid tier. Pit legitimately forgotten.

 

[Ripple]

"look at the unfair buffs those characters got! the only solution is to make my character unfair and overpowered also."

 

[GP&B]

Can we not give more characters stupid DThrows? I'm on the side of things that feels these shouldn't even be in the game to begin with.

 

[jtm94]

No one suggested Pika need buffs, the biggest thing I see is he needs his Melee stuff back perfectly. I merely brought up the contrast with the cast as a whole, it is up for you to interpret. Either he gets made better or gets put into a game he can win.

 

[Paradoxium]

I feel like smashboards is the only place where people literally think Pikachu is bad, and Fox is the best in the whole game.

Unbelievable, I'm shocked right now.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

"look at the unfair buffs those characters got! the only solution is to make my character unfair and overpowered also."

...

1. I main Sonic so I know about a char needing nerfs.
2. If you would read, I wrote out pretty nuanced thoughts about Pika's stupid skill to reward ratio - not just "pls make OP"
3. Are you stupid?
4. You're sour because D3 is basically inherently bad.
5. And you don't think the PM:BR should work on balance anymore?
6. You are stupid.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

What? No! Toon Link is the best in the game you dorks.

 

[shairn]

I feel like smashboards is the only place where people literally think Pikachu is bad, and Fox is the best in the whole game.

Unbelievable, I'm shocked right now.

People don't have the same opinion as you

How shocking

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

shairn with the sass

 

[GP&B]

Hah, a Pikachu main feeling shocked.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

People don't have the same opinion as you

How shocking

The dumbest part of all this is people's apparent inability to differentiate between statements of subtle balance relative to the rest of the cast and statements like "TJIS CHARACTER SUXX11!!" or "PLS MAKE MY CHARACTER EZMODE BROKEN". Like nobody has said Pika sucks, just that he is underwhelming. And nobody has asked for OP bull****, just thoughtful changes that make him not average performance-wise for a character needing nearly as much tech skill as FAWKS.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

why do even check on this thread

 

[Circle_Breaker]

why do even go on living

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

why do even go on living

ETA: Coincidentally, I have a ****ty John Egbert skin for Lucas. Lucas confirmed broken or something sorta on topic.

How bout we start up a daily Fox discussion for Canon's sake?