Tier List Speculation

[Mr.Random]

Yeah I don't wanna have to change mains because of large changes either, but that seems to be the name of the game.

Also Mewtwo is amazing, changing it so he can't hover out of teleport doesn't do anything. I mean that helps in conversions and continued follow ups, but that and no double jump after teleport are needed to hinder just his recovery to a more worldly level. He also needs moves tweaked slightly such as increasing end lag on uair so it doesn't combo into itself like Marth uair if it was 4 times faster, and maybe more end lag on utilt so it can be punished better. It is worth noting his projectile is amazing, but probably won't get touched. It is not fireball level, but he can put it out in similar quantity.

I also feel his weight needs to be reduced to 87. He lives too long considering his recovery. I feel this and a less safe teleport will balance him out.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo's tail is just so freaking big. Like, even more oversized than usual to the point of looking odd (if such a thing was possible on a purple mutant humanoid-cat thing.) It needs a good trimming.

Or we can make it like some type of ungodly combination of Robin's tomes in Smash4 and lizard autotomy where if Mewtwo uses his tail too much, it falls off.

 

[Bleck]

Fox is basically Lee Sin from League of Legends - it's generally acknowledged that his strength warps the balance of the game, but he's not going to be nerfed because people will cry about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Firebreath > Up-B.

You can thank me later.

we don't need another zelda man

 

[NickRiddle]

we don't need another zelda man

... So Bowser will get worse if we give him that?
You're right, I don't want my secondary to be bad.

 

[jtm94]

Bowser deserves to be good, he da king of da koopas.
Make UpB move like Luigi's DownB.

 

[EmptySky00]

Bowser deserves to be good, he da king of da koopas.
Make UpB move like Luigi's DownB.

I'll kill you if that happens. I know where you go to school mofo. <_<

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Ya know what? I got an idea.
Make successful footstools speed up bowser's aerial attack animations and his down B. At the very least, just speed up Bowser's Down B.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like Bowser's extreme vulnerability to grabs is what holds him back the most. I really don't think that's a problem that can be solved with some simple changes. I not even sure if it can be solved at all.

 

[Bleck]

Bowser's vulnerability to grabs is based primarily on his size, but also the slow nature of his attacks. It wouldn't be so devastating if his attacks had less recovery time or were less safe for opponents to shield (I'm a big supporter of the Smash 4 change to Bowser Bomb, where it destroys shields in one hit).

 

[B.W.]

Just make Bowser the same as he was before his nerf.

Like seriously he was perfect before they nerfed him.

 

[Bleck]

It's also probably worth pointing out that people would be less willing to be in grab range of him if he had Flying Slam instead of the Koopa Klaw.

 

[B.W.]

Nah. Koopa Klaw is way better.

Does Koopa Klaw have grab invincibility though? Because it should. And then less armor than it currently has. It'd give him a way to deal with grabs that's not totally overpowered.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

U can throw with Koopa Claw in 3 directions iirc so maybe just put Flying Slam as his uthrow.

 

[DrinkingFood]

How do you do the third throw
Up up down down left right left right a b start?

 

[Bleck]

Presumably when he said uthrow, he meant that you would have to push up.

 

[Deleted member]

Bowser should have a OHKO throw where he throws the opponent directly at the screen. And for the rest of the fight, it looks like your tv screen has been cracked.

 

[EmptySky00]

U can throw with Koopa Claw in 3 directions iirc so maybe just put Flying Slam as his uthrow.

That was discussed years ago. Trust me. It's not happening.

 

[Cpt.]

I lurk this thread out of interest and sometimes for laughs but I just thought I'd say... Kirby isn't top tier. Not even close.

Kirby was in a lot of Grand Finals for the most competitive of competitive players so that is why he is up there. Tier lists being based off of tournies and all. If you don't think he is B tier, what would you put him at?

 

[EmptySky00]

Should be based off of perceptions of character viability. That method literally amounts to a popularity contest.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Kirby was in a lot of Grand Finals for the most competitive of competitive players so that is why he is up there. Tier lists being based off of tournies and all. If you don't think he is B tier, what would you put him at?

Somewhere around the middle of the cast, most likely a few places below the half-way mark, but he could be in the upper half if only by a bit. Inhale may be godlike, Chudat may be godlike, but Kirby is just Kirby. I don't have the evidence to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that Chudat is the man behind the wheel for most if not all "Grand Finals for the most competitive of competitive players".

Looking at the confirmed usage statistics, Chudat got 2 out of 3 of the tournament wins with Kirby lol, and Kirby's still in the bottom half of the roster for Top 8 placements. Like I said, I don't have the evidence but hey, that's something.

 

[Cpt.]

Somewhere around the middle of the cast, most likely a few places below the half-way mark, but he could be in the upper half if only by a bit. Inhale may be godlike, Chudat may be godlike, but Kirby is just Kirby. I don't have the evidence to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that Chudat is the man behind the wheel for most if not all "Grand Finals for the most competitive of competitive players".

Looking at the confirmed usage statistics, Chudat got 2 out of 3 of the tournament wins with Kirby lol, and Kirby's still in the bottom half of the roster for Top 8 placements. Like I said, I don't have the evidence but hey, that's something.

I can see why you'd think that. It could just be Chu being better than his opponents, but hey it could also be Kirby. So I guess there isn't really a way to tell right now.

 

[Plum]

Chu is better and smarter than most players.

 

[Zx2963]

Chu is better and smarter than most players.

But he beat Armada, does that mean he's better than him or does it mean kirby is really good?

 

[victinivcreate1]

But he beat Armada, does that mean he's better than him or does it mean kirby is really good?

Armada doesn't practice PM and he's rusty.

 

[InfinityCollision]

It doesn't necessarily mean either. Maybe Kirby beats Pit. Maybe Chudat pulled out the 40% in a 60:40 (random numbers yay) matchup. Maybe he was feeling better than Armada going into the match. One set is 2-5 data points with a whole mess of extraneous factors thrown in.

 

[Plum]

But he beat Armada, does that mean he's better than him or does it mean kirby is really good?

and then proceeded to get bodied by Zero in the same matchup, so it's hard to say it's Kirby
it's easiest to say that Chu knows PM better than Armada, or at least had more of an understanding of that specific matchup

 

[EmptySky00]

Not to bring the Zelda **** up again, but I seriously want to have faith in PMBR to do the right thing with her. And by that I mean I really hope that if they came to the conclusion that her design is bad they don't overnerf her but retool her into a more well-designed role. Gutting a character because people ***** is the most unprofessional thing ever. It gives legitimacy to the practice like buying candy for a screaming child. It sends a message that "Hey, if you don't like something just come on forums and complain and if you do it enough we'll destroy it for you." You should fix the problems, not cut her limbs off. I'll be very upset if they take that route.

 

[jtm94]

I doubt Chu knows the MU and that's why he won. He won because Armada does not play the game, and Chu has a Brawl background so he made Armada play his game.

Zero is better because practice. Only at Pit. Zero will be better soon he's working his way up.

Hopefully they give Zelda roller skates like Ganon. The kick would be twice as painful.

 

[Phan7om]

I want Kirby to suck so no one will play him, making me the best Kirby by default.

 

[steelguttey]

I want Kirby to suck so no one will play him, making me the best Kirby by default.

so.. you awnt to main melee kirby?

well askith and you shall receive

 

[trash?]

chu's good at messing with you, if you're willing to be messed with. armada got caught by it, because armada only relies on melee fundamentals, whereas zero almost immediately caught on to everything chu tried. he's not actually all that good of a kirby player, so much as he is a good anti-scrub player

wait didn't I already say this like a week ago. well it's still correct so there. also don't trust MDVA with tier assumptions they all play monkeys

 

[Strong Badam]

chu is definitely a great kirby player lmao

 

[Phan7om]

chus definitely a very good player, though I feel someone out there could pass him up pretty easily

 

[mimgrim]

I also like what Armada was saying: "Don't balance by removing everyone's weaknesses, but by giving everyone a weakness". If all characters are basically "allrounders" they lose what makes them special. Also some depth of the game gets lost when no one has a weakness because the meta around exposing that weakness while covering the own weakness is much deeper than if characters can play many different ways in any MU.
When I hear about giving more characters projectiles / better recoveries, that is contrary to this principle

Bowser is fat and slow. There is no way to offset that weakness with a projectile no matter how good it would be. :L

U can throw with Koopa Claw in 3 directions iirc so maybe just put Flying Slam as his uthrow.

Only 2 actually, regular bite throw and a back throw.

Also his current Uthrow is perfect. Plz don't change it unless it is done on a totally redesigned Bowser. ;-;

 

[DrinkingFood]

I want Kirby to suck

Hasn't he done that in all the smash games and all the Kirby games

 

[steelguttey]

Hasn't he done that in all the smash games and all the Kirby games

?

 

[Ripple]

are you really missing the joke?

 

[EmptySky00]

Inhale = suck

It was a bad pun. I am the bad pun great deku tree. I'm goin' back to my roots. Branching out. Ok I'll leaf now.

 

[shairn]

Can we all agree at the very least that was a bottom tier pun