Tier List Speculation

[Axrz]

Upsmash does not need to be any safer on shield than it already is. And this is still not the nerf/buff thread.

 

[trash?]

it's a thread about discussing tier spots, which in a game that gets patches once or twice a year, means people talk about theoretical changes to stuff in high tier spots, because tiers are all about balance to begin with

theoretical, natch', because why would anyone in the PMBR read this thread seriously, but it's otherwise in a good place. plus I'd rather not have a separate thread for changes because that means a constant discussion on fox changes and this thread, at the very least, has it only once every two or so days

 

[Axrz]

I was under the assumption that the tier list speculation thread was to determine relative goodness based on the current version of the game. Am I wrong?

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I was under the assumption that the tier list speculation thread was to determine relative goodness based on the current version of the game. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. This is where we pray to the PMBR for nerfs and/or buffs.

 

[trash?]

well right now it's based off of the philosophical meta of the tier list speculation thread, so

ER-HEM. I would like to get back on track, and make sure you have all properly knelt for the praising of the One True Top Tier, metaknight

 

[Jams.]

Just wondering, why is ROB some sort of poster boy for mid tier, or is this just a running joke in this thread like the Toon Link bottom 5 stuff?

 

[Frost | Odds]

Only after we're done fellating M2 and Ivy

Not that the Spiked Appendages of Forced Intrusion are gonna give us any choice in the matter

 

[trash?]

he has the tools where he could probably be a really great mid-high at worst, but the only players that matter by this point are JCz and drinkingfood, JCz plays once in a blue moon nowadays and there's so little footage in general from DF's area that you praise the lord by name when you find some

 

[Seagull Joe]

he has the tools where he could probably be a really great mid-high at worst, but the only players that matter by this point are JCz and drinkingfood, JCz plays once in a blue moon nowadays and there's so little footage in general from DF's area that you praise the lord by name when you find some

I think Bstuk is better then JCz now in my region for .

 

[mimgrim]

MK is def top 5. He's just one of those character that will be good no matter what unless you purposefully make it otherwise. Small, fast, multiple jumps, god-like priority, little lag in general, relatively good range, good kill power, good combos. It's hard not to make him good without going to extremes lol.

 

[B.W.]

How do people not recognize Kirkq as a ROB player that matters?

Like for real, that dude's ROB is so good.

 

[Deleted member]

btw I'd like to ask
What has drinkingfood done besides take one set off of sethlon (and then lose to him later in losers)? IK he lost to denti like 3 or 4 weeks ago but thats it.

 

[DMG]

I'm pretty sure he's beaten more of the Texas Homies than just Sethon "that one time".

 

[Deleted member]

All I know is the following:
Beat sethlon in winners at a tourney, lost in losers
lost to aerolink in winners of that tourney
lost to denti at a more recent tourney

thats why I'm asking what he has done.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Toonlink, if he were to be nerfed, would only get very minor changes.

HE'S ALREADY BOTTOM 5 YOU CAN'T NERF HIM ANY HARDER!!!111

Your bottom 5 seems to include more than 5 characters, sir :D

 

[DrinkingFood]

That would be a straight nerf. With the SDi on uair, fox can at least do his uair higher or drift with you to challenge your SDi. With the nerf you're implying, you get out for free and there is nothing fox can do about it.

Fox could also space it deeper, read potential SDI and adjust spacing accordingly, adjust spacing so that his short slide forward is the differentce between weak and strong hits missing and hitting respectively, there's also the fact that the weak hit would be too quick to react to so the SDI input would have to be heavily based on prediction.
It's also not a straight nerf because the nature of the strong hit being near the end of the move means it'd be safer on shield and more advantageous on hit meaning it'd combo fast fallers better at low damage.

Upsmash does not need to be any safer on shield than it already is. And this is still not the nerf/buff thread.

The hypothetical change is more about adjusting the effectiveness of the move as a kill option, it becomes safer on shield to help null the sour taste In the mouth of Melee fox mains when they see people SDIing out of what would have been a successful upsmash hit, and then getting punished for it.
NOW YOU KNOW HOW ROB FEELS.

All I know is the following:
Beat sethlon in winners at a tourney, lost in losers
lost to aerolink in winners of that tourney
lost to denti at a more recent tourney

thats why I'm asking what he has done.

I've beaten aerolink once, which my most recent set against him, 3-1 (he has beaten me four times prior in TX tourneys so I value this win highly lol). Yeah, I lost against Denti, but hopefully it says something that it was a close set, 3-2, last stock. Also Sethlon, Aerolink, and Denti are the only TX players to take sets off me. This is probably more because they are the only players from TX top ten I've played tho, since I've only been to two TX locals and WHOBO.
Not to talk myself up, just to provide an answer to an asker.

Just wondering, why is ROB some sort of poster boy for mid tier, or is this just a running joke in this thread like the Toon Link bottom 5 stuff?

I kinda spawned that, it's satire on the fact that ROB is consistently placed in the middle of personal tier lists by bad players, good players, and average players alike, and exasperated by JCz statements that he's satisfied with how ROB is atm.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

MK is def top 5. He's just one of those character that will be good no matter what unless you purposefully make it otherwise. Small, fast, multiple jumps, god-like priority, little lag in general, relatively good range, good kill power, good combos. It's hard not to make him good without going to extremes lol.

He doesn't have, "god like priority." It's transcendent priority. It's a double edge sword. If your hitbox is bigger and or faster than said person, it works well. If they have amazing projectiles it sucks balls. Because you can't stop them.

When he gets hit, he takes big DMG. His low weight and fall speed is a curse as much as it is a blessing. Snake and mario can cg you for half the stock etc etc. His recovery is amazing for sure. The combos are marvelous as well. All in he, is a well built character, but he's no top 5. I would say top 10.

 

[Master Raven]

MK's pretty solid but I agree he's not top 5. Somewhere around top 10-15.

 

[mimgrim]

Projectiles mean jack squat when you are are small, fast, mobile, and have multiple jumps.

Like really, if you are losing as MK because of projectiles then you are doing something wrong. He ain't ****ing Bowser or Ganondorf lol.

 

[Zx2963]

Does anyone think Roy is better then Marth?

 

[didds]

yes, those types of people do exist...

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Projectiles mean jack squat when you are are small, fast, mobile, and have multiple jumps.

Like really, if you are losing as MK because of projectiles then you are doing something wrong. He ain't ****ing Bowser or Ganondorf lol.

mario

 

[Spiffykins]

Just wondering, why is ROB some sort of poster boy for mid tier, or is this just a running joke in this thread like the Toon Link bottom 5 stuff?

It's not a joke, Tink is actually bottom tier :\ ask Jolteon he'll tell you

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's not a joke, Tink is actually bottom tier :\ ask Jolteon he'll tell you

He be sayin, TL is top tier lel

 

[mimgrim]

mario

If MK is losing to Mario solely because of his projectile then the MK is doing something wrong.

That doesn't change anything I said about projectiles not being a big deal for him.

You really love to make blanket statements without backing them up don't you?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If MK is losing to Mario solely because of his projectile then the MK is doing something wrong.

That doesn't change anything I said about projectiles not being a big deal for him.

You really love to make blanket statements without backing them up don't you?

Fireballs are among the best, in the projectile game. 8% DMG, safe, covers a good amount of room and spam-able. Have you seen that MU played before? Projectiles alone aren't what makes the MU hard for MK, but they are still a problem.

EDIT: samus

 

[Chesstiger2612]

MK doesn't outright lose to Mario, Mario just has an advantage over him

 

[didds]

it looks a lot like fireball and chain grab, I know that much.

Smart MK's just shine projectiles.

 

[DMG]

Does he? What top MK vs top Mario sets have we all watched and agreed with? That MU doesn't seem to be very frequent, and I'd venture it's mostly speculation over who wins or not.

 

[didds]

All the top MK's beat mario with shine, haven't you ever heard of metaknightking? The premier MK of our time?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Does anyone think Roy is better then Marth?

He's cooler than Marth if that counts for anything

 

[Spralwers]

Does anyone think Roy is better then Marth?

Depends on the MU. I prefer Marth against mid range attackers/zoners, Roy against close quarters fighters. For instance I would pick Roy against spacies, Sheik, and MK, but I'd opt for Marth against DK, Charizard, Link, and Ivy.

 

[shairn]

Does anyone think Roy is better then Marth?

I do. He doesn't suffer from killing problems like Marth does if he doesn't get a good edgeguard early, has a safer, albeit shorter recovery, just as good if not better juggles and more setups for them, same grab range, and outspaces Marth with ftilt. While I think Marth wins the Roy MU, across the board I'm pretty sure Roy is better than Marth.

 

[FalconOwnage]

is this in PM or Melee?

if this is Melee, obviously Marth is better

 

[shairn]

is this in PM or Melee?

if this is Melee, obviously Marth is better

Why would we be talking about Melee Roy on the PM boards?

 

[McD]

is this
in PM or Melee?

if this is Melee, obviously Marth is better

good way to tell we're talking about PM is to go to the top
You'll see an area where you can look at which sub forum the thread is in, it is located directly above this thread
Home>Forums>Project M>General Discussion
Hope that helps for the future as well

 

[DMG]

Roy has way harder (and probably more numerous) bad MU's than Marth. His possible advantages in other MU's tend to be outweighed by that safety issue. You must have some very big stones to main Roy in tourney.

 

[trash?]

I still prefer my comparison of marth being one of those clear-cut knifes you use for slicing through fruit and veggies with ease, whereas roy is a big old saw which has less general purpose but you can cut through tree trunks with your jagged teeth

 

[Zx2963]

I do. He doesn't suffer from killing problems like Marth does if he doesn't get a good edgeguard early, has a safer, albeit shorter recovery, just as good if not better juggles and more setups for them, same grab range, and outspaces Marth with ftilt. While I think Marth wins the Roy MU, across the board I'm pretty sure Roy is better than Marth.

Also tipper feels like rubber compared to melee (unless its the very tip)

 

[DMG]

His tipper "flub" hits were improved iirc from Melee on certain attacks.