Tier List Speculation

[Deleted member]

Yoshis eggs in melee didn't work like that, I think they lost to firebird/firefox in some situations and they always beat them now iirc.

 

[Osennecho]

Any legit ideas on how Puff could be made to be better?

Make it so Ivy can't 0 to death her if she misses a rest... F synthesis->synthesis->dair. That **** almost makes me cry if done right.

 

[CORY]

lunchables, i'm curious about who you think is of top 5/bottom 5 and why (if you don't want to put out your thoughts on the full cast). i think you put up a tier list a while back, but what do you think currently?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think I've ever put out a tier list, if I ever have then I regret it.

Honestly I don't think I can decide a top 5. A bottom 5 would be (In no particular order) ICs, Ganon, Jiggs, Luigi, and Bowser.

top 5 is really hard, if I say anything I feel like I'm leaving other characters out. I still think fox is #1 and Falco is somewhere in top 5 but besides that its like... wh... what? There are so many good characters.

Edit: I said jiggs and then puff LOL I'm ********

 

[B.W.]

Jiggs is on there twice... A mistake?

I wonder...

 

[Deleted member]

LOL, Edited to fix that. Whoooooops

 

[trash?]

I don't rly think fox is best in the game. this is because mewtwo exists and mewtwo doesn't really care about stage control at all and that kind of just makes every matchup work for him

fox is still #2 tho. falco is definitely the worst of the spacies to me rn, on-stage edgeguards (which is all falco can really do without SDing) don't really cut it anymore and it shows, while fox can still shinespike and wolf has a meteor, a shine which is a bit more useful if you want them to move away from the ledge and good enough recovery to justify using those things well

 

[DMG]

>Mewtwo
>Assuming that God Forsaken *thing* is a real character

>>No

If characters were Breakfast choices at Denny's, Fox would be the Grand Slam and Mewtwo would also be the Grand Slam. However, Mewtwo would be all Bacon. No Hashbrowns, no Pancakes, no Sausage Links. Just your 2 Eggs and like 12 strips of Bacon.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Throw more bacon. Become the bacon.

 

[DrinkingFood]

What if GnW threw Mewtwos out of his pan
Would he ascend to high tier?

 

[Deleted member]

I got this from @ CORY but

Ganons neutral b should summon toonlinks. They're both bottom 5 so it would be balanced!

 

[DMG]

Wouldn't that disrupt the balance of the Triforce though

 

[Deleted member]

In this timeline, ganon defeated toonlink and teamed up with dr eggman to create tons and tons and tons of toonlink robot clones

its the year 20xx, but the spacies aren't the only ones with metal legs

 

[DrinkingFood]

The year is 20XX, ROB still doesn't have metal legs. 20##MidTierLife

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I don't think I've ever put out a tier list, if I ever have then I regret it.

Honestly I don't think I can decide a top 5. A bottom 5 would be (In no particular order) ICs, Ganon, Jiggs, Luigi, and Bowser.

top 5 is really hard, if I say anything I feel like I'm leaving other characters out. I still think fox is #1 and Falco is somewhere in top 5 but besides that its like... wh... what? There are so many good characters.

Edit: I said jiggs and then puff LOL I'm ********

ICs is so untrue, otherwise I would agree

 

[DMG]

IC are very slippery. That character and the strategies needed to succeed are hard to grasp. More than 1 player will be needed to venture forth and explore the tops of the character. Many perilous obstacles await those mains, on their adventurous ascent to the peak of glory.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I mean, they are just underexplored, like when I started testing a bit I immediately found new techniques and thats not possible with every character.
They are very good, hopefully some good smashers will apply their new abilities.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

IC are very slippery. That character and the strategies needed to succeed are hard to grasp. More than 1 player will be needed to venture forth and explore the tops of the character. Many perilous obstacles await those mains, on their adventurous ascent to the peak of glory.

I mean, they are just underexplored, like when I started testing a bit I immediately found new techniques and thats not possible with every character.
They are very good, hopefully some good smashers will apply their new abilities.

A challenge

 

[Chesstiger2612]

A challenge

Challenge accepted.

 

[Zx2963]

Why do people even consider Falco high tier, he's honestly mid to low tier at best. Terrible recovery and off stage game, which is about half of the game itself. O also disagree with anyone calling Toon Link bottom tier, his recovery is infinite. I agree though that Jiglypuff is the worst character in game

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Why do people even consider Falco high tier, he's honestly mid to low tier at best. Terrible recovery and off stage game, which is about half of the game itself. O also disagree with anyone calling Toon Link bottom tier, his recovery is infinite. I agree though that Jiglypuff is the worst character in game

Because he is far more developed than most characters, more potienal, very strong neutral game, very good projectile, and very strong combo game. He doesn't need off stage game when he camp the ledge with lasers and kill u for missing your sweet spot or just shine>dair you. I do agree however, falco is not as dominate as he has been in the past. He isn't a dam mid tier, but I would put him in high tier, right under m2 and fox.

 

[Life]

If I had to pick a top five right now, it would probably be (in no particular order) Fox, Mewtwo, Mario, Link, and Pit, with Fox and Mario falling as the meta for the rest of them develops (probably being replaced by MK and maybe Ivysaur).

I also think Charizard is underrated. Possible candidate for best edgeguarding in the game, has a solid grab game, has a lot of reach and a Marth-like tipper system, strong kill moves in case his edgeguarding fails. Has some issues in neutral, if he had a strong neutral game he'd be broke.

 

[Seagull Joe]

If I had to pick a top five right now, it would probably be (in no particular order) Fox, Mewtwo, Mario, Link, and Pit, with Fox and Mario falling as the meta for the rest of them develops (probably being replaced by MK and maybe Ivysaur).

I also think Charizard is underrated. Possible candidate for best edgeguarding in the game, has a solid grab game, has a lot of reach and a Marth-like tipper system, strong kill moves in case his edgeguarding fails. Has some issues in neutral, if he had a strong neutral game he'd be broke.

is NOT top 10. She might be like 20th best character.

Also, no fat characters are ever amazing cause they get body bagged for being fat and generally slow (, , , , ). is lucky to be a skinny tall dude.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Link is not top 5. Just because m2k said it, doesn't mean it's true. I think diddy could make top 5. Fox will never fall from the top, however.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Link is between 10 and 15, he just wrecks mid-level players and uses common weaknesses very efficient.

 

[Mr.Random]

Now that I think about it. What buffs would regular Mario (not Doc) from Melee need to be successful? The two major things listed was finishers and more range but that was all that I saw.

 

[Zx2963]

Now that I think about it. What buffs would regular Mario (not Doc) from Melee need to be successful? The two major things listed was finishers and more range but that was all that I saw.

Regular Mario has been super buffed to brokenness, he doesn't need any more buffs. Up B cancel would be interesting though​

 

[Deleted member]

ICs is so untrue, otherwise I would agree

ICs are trash, sorry. Brawl infinites and wobbling was removed and they didn't really get anything in return.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

ICs are trash, sorry. Brawl infinites and wobbling was removed and they didn't really get anything in return.

Handoffs still exist and they have the combined strength of Melee and Brawl desyncs. It doesn't make sense to speak about the Brawl infinites if you still have an infinite and the game is in a melee environment.
Their neutral game was buffed by the Brawl desyncs, they have more setups that lead into grabs, and more opportunities to play it out as if it was a 2v1.
If you disagree, please make use of arguments which hold true in reality.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright... maybe I don't know EXACTLY what the character does...

Tell me how many matchups ICs actually wins >______________>

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Wins means slightest advantage counts? There are flowing borders

 

[Deleted member]

slight advantage, yes.

Does ICs win enough mus to where he's not around bowser/luigi/ganon/puff?

 

[Mr.Random]

Regular Mario has been super buffed to brokenness, he doesn't need any more buffs. Up B cancel would be interesting though​

No I'm saying just if Mario was exactly like Melee Mario what would he need? Just curious because most of PM Mario's moveset takes docs attributes.

 

[Phan7om]

Damn, most of his moveset. I was very wrong then.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

slight advantage, yes.

Does ICs win enough mus to where he's not around bowser/luigi/ganon/puff?

Advantage against:
Bowser, Charizard, Donkey Kong, Ike, Dedede, Kirby (hard to counter camping but you needn't get in a disadvantage), Lucario, Luigi, Squirtle.
Many even MUs.
A bit more disadvantegous.

And that is estimated in regards to the current metagame if applied perfectly by both sides and ICs are currently evolving faster than most other characters. IMO they are mid tier...

 

[Deleted member]

I would think zard nair rips ice climbers a new anus, and kirby doesn't have to approach for ****

they have a few decent mus but then they also have some ****ING AWFUL MUS. TL Vs. ICs is almost un-winnable, not even joking.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Well Charizard has trouble approaching against Blizzard + Ice Block combinations. He has a good d-tilt (which is the reason for G&W, Marth and Roy to not be on that list) but his hurtbox is so big that he would get hit as he tries to space it. They always have the frame 3 dair mixup in their desync wall and that catches big hurtboxes surprisingly well.
Vs Toon Link is rough, thats true, same goes for Peach. But you can make more out of it than one would think, even if you won't win against a player at your skill level in that matchup. Having 2 climbers makes things very variable and you can at least try every sort of mixup or, if nothing helps, even gimmicks, and the huge number of the possibilities makes it rather unpredictable.

 

[mimgrim]

How can ICs be evolving faster then most other characters when they barely have any players playing them.

Does not compute.

 

[Deleted member]

I still think ICs are bottom 5. If someone can go out to a big tournament and place high with them then they'll blow my mind.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

How can ICs be evolving faster then most other characters when they barely have any players playing them.

Does not compute.

Because they currently are soooo underdeveloped that these players are enough. Metagame works with a model of diminishing returns and if a character is behind it is easier for him to evolve.

I still think ICs are bottom 5. If someone can go out to a big tournament and place high with them then they'll blow my mind.

Well, tournament placings have nothing to say. Probably it will take a while for the Ice Climbers players. But it might as well happen that they get overbuffed next patch, everyone plays them and then people will see they were actually solid before.
Right now, most IC players even use them as secondaries, so it is understandable they don't have the results right now.