Tier List Speculation

[steelguttey]

every time someone puts olimar and toonlink in bottom tier i lose a brain cell

 

[Deleted member]

Absolute bottom: Ice Climbers, Olimar, Luigi, Toon Link

Toon link... bad recovery, somewhat laggy projectile metagame and bad weightclass.

BTW Whenever I make toonlink sucks jokes, toonlinks bottom 5, blah blah... You're the type of person I'm making fun of.

 

[Phan7om]

So many characters called bad cuz of ill-informity. "I dont really know what this character can do, I never see anyone good play this character on VGBC, and everytime my friend uses that character he loses... he must be bad, buff plz"

***** please!

 

[Deleted member]

If I was on vgbc every weekend, people would think toonlink is ********

"up b oos is broken, his bombs are as auto combo as links boomerang, his recovery makes no sense ITS INFINITE"

 

[steelguttey]

BTW Whenever I make toonlink sucks jokes, toonlinks bottom 5, blah blah... You're the type of person I'm making fun of.

AAAND OLIMAR

olimar is ****ing good to guys

just because we dont have someone as good as lunchables to represent doesnt make us bad

 

[Deleted member]

I do also think olimar is better than people say. I don't think toonlink level but he's not ****ing bottom 5

 

[steelguttey]

btw there is SO MUCH worse with that tier list (captain falcon bottom tier what)but there is obviously no point in trying so whatever

 

[AstraEDM]

Out of curiousity, who IS bottom five do we think? Like IMO ganon's pretty bad (not as awful as people give him credit for), game and watch is nowhere near as bad as people think
it's honestly kinda hard to pick

 

[steelguttey]

i dont want to call it the bottom five. the sad thing is the bottom five of this game is going to be characters that are GOOD and we should NOT be calling them bottom five. the game is balanced to a point where bottom five makes the 5 worse characters in the game look bad but, they really arent. my bottom five is yoshi, bowser, ganon, ic, and jiggs. in that order. but are those characters unplayable? helll noooo. this isnt melee or brawl. bottom five doesnt mean bad anymore.

 

[trash?]

ganon, jigglypuff.

everything else is up for debate. hell, jigglypuff is kind of up for debate but she gets wrecked by top tiers rn so

 

[JOE!]

Jiggs gets wrecked by more than just tops, many more characters just kind of... out-rank her for lack of a better term. Like, how does jiggs expect to compete with the likes of Pit, MK, Charizard, etc who can out space her and work around her edegguarding?

 

[steelguttey]

lets get a petition to give jigglypuff a sword

oh wait thats metaknight

 

[Phan7om]

Any legit ideas on how Puff could be made to be better?

 

[didds]

Yea bottom 5, buff Yoshi

 

[steelguttey]

Yea bottom 5, buff Yoshi

yea ik i seem like an asshole saynig that its just ive never seen a good yoshi

 

[didds]

Those who devote their time to the Yoshi are few in numbers and spread throughout less known regions, but I assure you we are here, and play a character who is pretty damn solid. But tis a cruel life, not much room for error as Yoshi.

Definitely not bottom 5 tho

 

[ELI-mination]

The whole cast would be "broken" if I was on vgbootcamp every week lol

Especially when I start u-throw chain grabbing Fox with Ganon

 

[jtm94]

Yoshi can almost compete in Melee, but Yoshi is now better and stronger in every way + he can jump out of shield.

 

[Frost | Odds]

The whole cast would be "broken" if I was on vgbootcamp every week lol

Especially when I start u-throw chain grabbing Fox with Ganon

how high does the cg go?

 

[Zeta145]

My top 5 IMO is Mew2, Lucas, Wolf, Fox, Falco.... I know it sounds generic but eh lol

 

[trash?]

also yoshi gets out of tier-talk on the basis that one of his most important neutral tools doesn't exist in project m yet, so whatever spot he's in right now won't matter because he's guaranteed to rise a few spots

 

[Phan7om]

Yoshi is underrated. If we had an amsa level genius player who used Yoshi people would complain and beg for nerfs. Melee yoshi + jump oos, long egg lay (really good move that isnt really talked about), endless egg tosses, heavier, stronger dair, really good pivot grab (didnt exist in Melee). If amsa played Yoshi in Melee with those tools added onto him he wouldve gotten top 5 at evo ez. His parry isnt there but i guarantee it will.

 

[AstraEDM]

The whole cast would be "broken" if I was on vgbootcamp every week lol

Especially when I start u-throw chain grabbing Fox with Ganon

wait a god damn minute that's a thing?

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Let's talk about Ike as Ike mains got 3rd and 4th at the Evo side tournament. What do you think of him?

I still think he's mid tier despite strong performance.
Strengths: powerful punishes, large disjointed hit boxes, good movement options
Weaknesses: somewhat bad recovery, suffers against projectiles, large hurt boxes (combo food)

He's a good punishing character but his weaknesses keep him out of a high tier position.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Ike seems pretty balanced to me

(sorry Fox mains)

 

[Kati]

Any legit ideas on how Puff could be made to be better?

rest heals upon hitting >_>

 

[Master Raven]

Toon Link is massively underrated.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Tink = secret wolf counterpick

usmash combos into usmash all day

 

[Coney]

lame

 

[Deleted member]

Toonlink vs. Wolf is 60-40 in wolfs favor.

 

[DrinkingFood]

A little bit out of current discussion, but I have too much sparetime and I'm willing to throw out my own pekulation about possible tierlist. It is anything but correct, but it reflects my personal experiences I've learned from PM so far. There is plenty of characters in a roster those posses huge potential in right hands and my advantage when knowledge towards the game expands, but at the moment my personal feeling about tierlsit is somewhat like this: (I try to keep it in groups of four)

S: Fox, Pit, M2,
A: Falco, Zelda, Mario, MK
B: Snake, Sonic, Lucas, Ivysaur
C: Link, Lucario, Charizard, Diddy, Wolf
D: DK, Marth, Kirby, Ike,
E: DeDeDe, Rob, Pikachu, Roy
F: ZSS, Samus, Peach, Sheik, GW
G: Wario, Falcon, Yoshi, Ganondorf
H: Jiggs, Bowser, Ness, Squirtle
Absolute bottom: Ice Climbers, Olimar, Luigi, Toon Link

Quick comments:

S: Most playable characters; Fox is almost the same as he is in melee and his upword kill potential is as good as it was in melee / brawl. Pit is the gimp master and pretty much outclasses even falco when we talk about projectilegame. Great recovery, Out of stage control and neutral game control are both great. M2 got by far the best juggling abilities and his buffed range in attacks helps a lot. Being able to move and hit fast with teleport adds great pressure into his gamestyle. Also he got great combobreaker attack in neutral-aerial. These three are IMO three clearly best chars and none of A-tier characters were able to fill the fourth slot. The gap ain't huge, but it is big enough to separete two tiers.

A. Falco is IMO the most "melee-like" transformation in PM and therefore easy to handle. Pretty much nothing changed in his metagame. Zelda, Mario and MK are all very "all around" fighters. All them are hard to combo and they got lots of good options almost in every situation. Zelda is very hard to approach (thanks to Dins fire and far reaching multihit attacks like usmash, Utilt, jab and F-smash) and posses variety of different set up attacks and she got one of the best recoveries in the game.

B: Snake and Sonic posses very unfamiliar gameplay. That makes them very strong and adapting into their style ain't that easy. Snake's weakness is his slow aerial movement and somewhat straightforward. But his punishgame is amazing. Setting C4 usually means you are half dead because sheik can pretty easile combo you close to ceiling. Also his throws combo into early spike skills with front aerial. Lucas is the oddball, cos his movement is so improvment from his Brawl counterpart. Ivysaurs battles with range and his spacing is so safe most of the time. Being above ivysaur easily leads into a lot of damage and upB if great finisher.

C: Every character in this tier got great buffs in their gameplay. Diddy being the master of neutral game with bananas, Wolf got this spaceanimal-like combogame and charizard is suprisingly fast with great amount of powerful killers and combomoves. Link is overally very good (but I got very little experience about him) and Lucarios metagame is again one very unique. The closest thing smash has ever had with street fighter and other fighting games :D. These characters got the potential, and my move up an down in the tierlist

D: Dk is the character I got most experience and I'm very aware about his potential and weaknessis. I clame, that this character might reach the very top in right hands. Along with snake, his punishment-game is something to be afraid of. Great recovery, long reach, great recovery... his only disadvantage is his sige and lack of projectile so controlling the neutralgame is hard. Marth's match up have turned worse IMO when comparing melee/brawl to PM. Comboing into tipper is harder and there is characters those outrange him more easily and also the amount projectiles to hurt his movement. He is still solid character with good overall combo game. Kirby seems ok, but I don't know him well enough. Ike's quick draw overcomes his weakness in slow movement and gives him great tool to link his moves. His amazing KO power is not a joke. He suffers from being very easy to combo and his horizontal recovery is too easy to break.

E: Dedede is much like DK, but act worse almost on every situation. His movement, punisgame, edgeguarding, recovery... DK does that all better. His size acts as his disadvantage and he got no moves to cause combobreaks. Still, lots of attackpower and back aerial as edgeguard option are threats to be aware of. Rob got the movement, poking and good edgeguard. Placing him into this tier was very hard cos as I play him as my secondary amd therefore I feel like he could be a lot higher. But on the other hand, he is huge target (much like DeDeDe) and his recovery is good, but gimbable. Roy, at the moment in the shadows of marth but overally I think roy is better in the long run. Pikachu is okey, but match ups don't work for his favor in PM. It is very hard to gimp and combo with him when compared to Melee.

F: ZSS is much like sheik with good reach: Agile, fast moves and good combo game. She's biggest weakness is lack of potential killing moves and his edgeguard options are pretty much limited. I got not too much experience about Samus but I don't see her as potential higher tier character. I might be badly wrong though. Peach is more agile which is great but like with Marth: There is too much hard match ups for her. Sheik finds it hard to land his familiar combo game and feels like she got the biggest nerf when comparing melee and PM. GW... metagame chances have buffed him for sure, but he still lacks something I can't name specificly.

G: Wario... I just don't like the changes. Potential killing moves are hard to land, recovery is somewhat pathetic and his dash grab ain't good once your opponents get's to use it. His aerial movement is amazing though. Falcon could be higher, but I've found it hard for him to fit into these chances in mechanics. Yoshi is good, but once again, very little experience. Ganondorf's front B is great move, but he is still slow old man with bad recovery.

H: Jiggs fits into category "Great, but new physics of the game work againt her". Getting rest is much harder and got there is lot of hard hitters and characters with great range, it ain't easy to approach with jiggs. Bowser: Huge power and super armor are his way to adapt, but behind that he is still way too slow and big. On the other hand, Squirtle is fast but way too light and still in a very bad weightclass. Comboing him ain't that hard and he dies way too easily. Ness... I got no comments. Might be higher, might be lower.

Bottom: IC's got nerfed badly. The whole grabgame has suffered a lot of damage. This new "more humanlike" nana acts stupidly and usually gets herself in danger. Also the changes in physics is bad for this couple. Olimar feels like he is the brawl character in melee-like metagame. he just doesn't fit. Toon link... bad recovery, somewhat laggy projectile metagame and bad weightclass. Luigi... he should be okey, but so far I've got nothing out of him.


Well.... it wasn't so short post after all :D. But like I said, I got plenty of spare time to fit more precise analysis about my thoughts. This is anything but the real deal and bases totally my experiencis so far. Looking forward to first official tierlisting!

Why the fuck do you have so many tiers.
That is a statement not a question

Also lolol samus is amazing how could you put her anything short of top ten. She has an advantageous MU against fox, even at worst.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Godlike? Lol, no way. Mewtwo, Pit, Lucas, and the spacies are all blatantly better, and Mario/Snake/MK/Link probably are too.

Why are his placements not better considering the sheer volume of Diddy players out there? Brawl players tended to gravitate to Diddy and there's a lot of them (NinjaLink, Junebug, Seagull Joe, Boss, etc), but characters like Mewtwo, Pit, and even Snake consistently outperform them. The only Diddy in the top eight at SKTAR was Junebug, who got 8th in doubles, and not one made it in to top eight singles.

Learn to deal with bananas. Or play a character that can rush him down and prevent him from pulling them.

I was with Junebug in doubles. I don't know why the results put my character as . I went mainly lol. Double is actually terrible tho.

is also good outside of his ****ty recovery in my honest opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Toonlinks recovery is one of the best in the games. Anyone who says his recovery is ****ty is just really really inexperienced with the character.

 

[DMG]

Any character that has a z tether is automatically worthy of burning in hell. Why? Because airdodge in any direction + tether takes away any reputable fun anyone has ever had, ever. Now go smack the devil out of those character mains.

TL's recovery is fine once your bomb is pulled. If you get touched or smacked before you can pull one out, you might regret every life decision. Including picking TL.

Want a mere glimpse into his recovery? Once you got a bomb out, you can FF at varying points and cancel the ff command with AGT, the AGT itself can go any direction and throw the bomb in 4 directions, with good DI up you can get multiple bombs out, you can bomb jump for style points (although this bomb jump is poopy and people need to grow some balls on edgeguarding it), you can airdodge in a bajillion directions + tether to the edge + CANCEL that tether into an Upb, etc


The FoD video everyone points to is bad. You're not explaining the practical side of why it's annoying and good. Just copy paste what I wrote ^^^^^^^^ into every forum, including GameFAQ's and Shoryuken. Now everyone will understand

 

[Deleted member]

If toonlink doesn't have a jump or a bomb, often he can still pull out a bomb and start from the bottom of the blast zone and make his way back up. You just have to be good

one of the most common mistakes players make is say toonlinks recovery is bad. Whenever anyone says that, they def haven't played any good tinks or watched a good tink.

 

[steelguttey]

Let's talk about Ike as Ike mains got 3rd and 4th at the Evo side tournament. What do you think of him?

I still think he's mid tier despite strong performance.
Strengths: powerful punishes, large disjointed hit boxes, good movement options
Weaknesses: somewhat bad recovery, suffers against projectiles, large hurt boxes (combo food)

He's a good punishing character but his weaknesses keep him out of a high tier position.

where are the results of this tournament?

 

[DMG]

PM at Evo:

1st- Zero
2nd- Chu Dat
3rd- DJ Nintendo?
4th- Metroid?
5th- Chillin?

I didn't see much, just Chu in losers play a bunch of these people and then zero for GF's. I think these were accurate, dunno


I missed out on the juicy Diddy discussion. I'll make a post about my thoughts on the character,

 

[Deleted member]

The FoD video everyone points to is bad. You're not explaining the practical side of why it's annoying and good. Just copy paste what I wrote ^^^^^^^^ into every forum, including GameFAQ's and Shoryuken. Now everyone will understand

Yeah thats the biggest thing I hate, the FoD video made by Aero isn't a correct representation. It's just a ton of walljumping into the same wall, and some of that was changed/patched. The walljumping, breverse arrows, etc aren't what make his recovery good.

Most people who say toonlinks recovery is bad (Or say toonlink is bad in general) seriously haven't ever touched the character at even a MEDIUM LEVEL.

 

[Ogopogo]

Yoshi can almost compete in Melee, but Yoshi is now better and stronger in every way + he can jump out of shield.

I wouldn't base a character's goodness on how they were in Melee. Pretty much everyone from Melee has been buffed in some way but some are just better in Melee. For example Marth was amazing in Melee but even though he was buffed (PM Marth would def beat Melee Marth) he just doesn't control space and gimp as well as he does in Melee, thus a speculated overall lower tier list position.

However I do agree that Yoshi is a competent competitor in PM, and will be even better once parrying is in

 

[DrinkingFood]

Also I noticed you can't clank out Yoshi's eggs In PM
Either they miss or you lose
Seriously wtf, was that in Melee?
That character Is gonna be great once parrying is fixed.