Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Just having solar beam is a great mindgame. it frightens opponents and there are quite a few options to combo into it IIRC
Very true, I say we either nerf his recovery in the vein of Falco, or make his shine not as OP but still viable. Maybe something like making it's startup halfway between Falco's and Wolf's with a good bit of ending lag if it misses, or possibly only one of the two if that's too much.
Yeah, I know.
From what I saw I would say 6-4 Fox (Shine / Upsmash can shut down Spindash and a lot of Sonic's other offensive tools, while Sonic doesn't have any great defense against Fox's pressure or combos, at best UpB just lets him escape, Side B is the only thing the gives him a fighting chance), which just goes to show that just because you have a tool for gimping spacies doesn't mean you're 5-5 or better.
I would honestly accept a Falco buff in exchange for a Fox nerf, as long as it's a tiny buff, like the return of Brawl Fair or something.
What's so good about Brawl's fair?
Compared to what he's got now, it's much faster and a little more powerful. I don't think it would really change that much, though, which is why I consider it a tiny buff.
Yup.
In who's favor? Its not clear in your post.
Yeah his Brawl Fair was garbage.
Falco's Brawl Fair sucked
Mewtwo's.
I'd say 55:45. Emukiller is the number one abuser of Teleport Hover Nair, and he had a hard time with ESAM's Samus (granted, ESAM was reading him extremely hard). Even if we were to elimonate ESAM's reading game, ESAM 0-deathed Emu by just plain camping. Emu couldn't through the wall. Also, Teleport directions are generally obvious to read. The MU seems stage dependent however. Samus has her best shots on Pokemon Stadiums, FD and arguably Smashville. Mewtwo has his best on Dracula's Skyworld and to an extent Battlefield.
Never said it wasn't good but its not free in any way and I don't think saying just having the option is amazing you still gotta earn them and use them wisely just like rest.
Couldn't agree more.
It's hard to fathom a good Mewtwo ever getting camped out. He's got the easiest powershield in the game, plus an infinitely long reflecting move that goes like 5 feet in front of his face. Also I'm pretty sure N-air eats missiles. And teleport directions should never be obvious, that's just being predictable. Also Pokemon Stadium is probably not very good given the low ceiling. I'd much rather face Mewtwo on Battlefield, the sides are thinner, and the ceiling is a bit higher.
Charizard's pretty good for the most part. He can absolutely maul spacie players who don't know the matchup (he can 0-death spacies pretty consistently off a grab), but he struggles hard against projectile camping
I see. That's pretty much how it goes with me and my friends.
Melee Fair isn't any better, it has it's niche uses just like Brawl Fair had it's niche uses. I think Brawl Fair would gain more utility with L-cancel however.
Charizard is solid. Great ground mobility, great range, good throws, good combos, has a bit of a weird combo weight going on for the plus side. On the bad side of the coin he is a big target, not the best aerial mobility, and his attacks are kinda laggy. He's like Falcon to a degree, but better imo.
Emukiller is the best Mewtwo and he got camped out by a Samus. If you're getting outcamped, and you're Samus, then you need work on your camp game. MAJOR work on your camp game.
Placement of characters is wrong, and its missing many characters.
Zelda isn't top tier, her moves are pretty situational, and she can be zoned out fairly easily. Marth isn't top tier because of everyone's buff, Squirtle imo is nothing more then a gimmicky character. Lucario has shown no promise at the moment, he can't be placed as top tier if nobody has figured him out yet. Snake being top tier is debatable because of his weight (combo food). ZSS is my only other nitpick, she really isn't all that great from what I've seenPlacement of characters is wrong, and its missing many characters.
Top tier is pretty much correct. Just add Sonic, Snake and Lucario, Zelda is the lowest top tier, Fox is above Pit, Mewtwo above Lucas. Snake is above Lucas, MK above Snake, Lucario above Zelda. Sonic above Mewtwo
High tier is correct in placement, but you're missing Ivysaur, Squirtle and Diddy Kong. Diddy is above Samus and Squirtle above Mario. Ivysaur below Samus. Marth second lowest high tier. ZSS lowest.
List should look like
Top Tier-
High Tier-
That ain't Falco
Zelda is bottom top tier, but still top tier. If Zelda is getting zoned out, that Zelda is bad Zelda loses to extreme aggression (aka everyone above her and Falco) which is why she's bottom top tier. ZSS, Marth, Squirtle I didn't put as top tier. Squirtle may be gimmicky, but he's still very good. Snake? The top four PM players in the world are M2K, Wizzrobe, Armada, and Professor Pro. Snake has the results to say he's top tier. Then you have Rolex who is extremely consistent with his placings as Snake, including 4th at Apex, falling at the hands of M2K, twice. You know who else is combo food? Fox. He's still top tier. As for Lucario, I'm just waiting for someone to do really well with him in tournament. He's hasStreet Fighter esque combos. The character is broken to an extent.
Link and Zelda were overly buffed from Melee to PM. Both have tourney results as well. Diddy doesn't. And Mario is not top tier. Call me crazy, but his only thing that keeps him afloat is Fire Balls. Mario has JACK on the top tiers. He does have insane shield pressure (Mewtwo, Sonic Fox, Pit, Lucas, Wolf, Lucario), incredible speed (Fox, Wolf, Pit, Sonic, Lucas), an outstanding combo game (Snake, Sonic, Mewtwo, Pit, Lucas, Lucario, Wolf), or an unstoppable camp game (Link, Zelda, Fox to an extent). His attributes are just average. Even his recovery isn't omnipotent (Mewtwo, Pit and Zelda lololol). At least Diddy can match the tops in combo game, but he gets gimped somewhat easily, gets comboed very easily by top tiers, and his general best set ups can be used against him, which can be detrimental.
So somewhere between 1 frame and 1 frame. It might take a lot of coding but I think they could do that.
LOLOLOLOL I found this funnier than I should have found it.
Someone had to say it. Came here to post the exact thing...
