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After being meteor smashed, you have to wait 16 frames before you attempt to jump, or you lose the opportunity to do so and just fall straight down to your doom.
nah i think wario's mid-high even assuming the opponent knows the MU.
Im aware of how meteors work for the most but thanks.I just play with a lot of friend's who have a lot to learn.
What kind of sorcery is this
8 frames, not 16
iirc, unless it's been changed in 3.02, the meteor cancel window in PM is 16 frames, not 8. melee's MC window was 8 frames.
16. This is PM, not Melee.
He's my solo main, and I take on a fair share of good people at this game. Don't always win, but it's really not Olimar's fault I don't.
I've always hated this change. If you're good at meteor cancelling in Melee, "good" meaning fast enough to cancel between frames 9 and 15, you're punished for it in PM. That's why I and everyone else that plays Melee dies to Awestin's Ness dairs (and every other meteor, this was just the easiest example) 90% of the time. And the only solution is to slow your reaction speed down, which seems horribly counter-intuitive.
I think it was intended to make meteors actually feel impactful. I can't count how many times I've been being combod by a mewtwo, and then I DI a Fair wrong and he does for a dair off stage, so i just eat it and Jump>shine then ledge hog and take the free stock.
It sounds like they want the character to travel farther before being able to recover. A buff to meteors? Prevents free-gibs? I don't play melee so I don't know how it all maths out at high levels, but I doubt they changed it solely to piss melee vets off.
This change was implemented because in Melee, these is a fail-window in which if you input a jump or up+B within the 8 frames after getting meteor smashed, the input will not register and you will not meteor cancel. In PM, there is a fail window for jumping too early but not for up+B'ing too early, meaning that to meteor cancel, you can get away with mashing up+B repeatedly. In order to keep meteors potent in light of this, the window for meteor canceling was pushed back from 8 frames to 16 frames.
Watching a Ganon have to land like 3 dairs in a row to get the kill just seems silly to me. I think 16 frames is fine. It lets you meteor cancel a lot of stuff at low percents while allowing people to actually get kills off of meteor smashes at higher percents.
This is amusing because many people argue that recoveries are too good in PM. The meteor canceling window being different is one of the few situations where edgeguarding is objectively more powerful than Melee.
Post it, doesn't hurt to have an actual tier list every few pages in the thread.
My main problem with Samus is that she's kind of one-dimensional. She's got good keep away, but that's about it, she can't shift between keep away and offense nearly as well as someone like Link or Toon Link, largely owing to her extreme floatiness, limited combo game, and lack of kill power on everything except charge shot. She also has problems with short characters, who can duck under some of her best moves and get in on her more easily.
I think you're sleeping on a lot of people in your list, particularly Link, Zelda, Sheik, Kirby, and Mewtwo.
Kirby is just incredibly versatile and strong in almost every respect. He's got extremely solid pressure thanks to his Nair, Up B dash, and Dash Attack, he's the best character at performing the wall of pain, he has great edgeguarding ability while being nearly impossible to edgeguard himself, and he has surprisingly solid combos and kill power. Virtually every weakness he ever had in Melee is totally gone, and some things he has are even better than what he had in 64.
Yeah I'll definitely address why I didn't put those 5 higher. First off I don't think that putting a character in mid-tier makes them bad. Link, kirby, Mewtwo and sheik are definitely characters that I think are solid and good characters. That being said, I didn't put them higher because I think the characters above them either do their "jobs" better or just have better/less polarizing matchups.
