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I feel like Wario is definitely top 12.
Okay fine, maybe I will do a little write up. Is there anything you want me to cover, or just a general spiel about what I feel about her relative goodness to the cast?
General stuff is fine. Going through what the problems are and why they're problems and comparisons to the rest of the cast are good. Like I said, I just picked her up so I don't know her intricacies to know what question to ask about her beyond her general stuff.
pls cover her maximum punishments
If you have the time of course. No need to make a very long text, a general idea of her matchups, her shortcomings and her punish game would be appreciated.
Range is definitely his biggest weakness, yeah, and unlike Jiggs he lacks an aerial with significant disjoint. Getting in on swords and projectile spam is probably Wario's biggest challenge. Thankfully he's more than capable of playing a strong defense and biding his time for a good opening. His recovery is also one of his weaker areas, although his weight and air mobility let him live for quite a while, his recovery from below the stage is limited and he's pretty vulnerable to being gimped. Overall though he's definitely a very strong character. Most importantly, I feel like he does pretty well against the top tiers, maybe even has the advantage over Shiek.
I recently decided to try making ZSS my new main because I feel like a **** for playing a bunch of Melee top-tiers and no one else on that high of a level. I'd definitely be interested in what a top ZSS player thinks about the character.
y samus have whip?
Fix'd.
You don't have to cancel it with a jump, you can cancel it with any air move.
I'm sorry, I was referring to a Smashboards member who posts incoherent crap about Lucario being completely broken. I like your comparison, however.
I think you got that backwards. At least, it was my Tier List that had those as categories, and the reference to Ike in relation to C Tier (which was described as being due to this factor) and the comments that followed.
I remember seeing a video of Vidjo or something playing ZSS (I can't remember, but I'll check in a bit and edit if it's different, they were vs SW in a set) and as far as I'm concerned, it was the closest thing to the direction of play I've suggested people start taking the character, and it was the only example I've seen of others doing it.
I'd like to know how things are going too, it's been a while since I checked anything outside my own play (since the last event I commented on happened/watching that vid)
Range isn't a big deal when he has a Grab and D-Tilt to match the best, and speed to maneuver around them in a way that allows a constant presence to initiate anything from aerial pressure to simply Bites and chasing opponents if they ever get poked, whether the poke connects or is avoided in a process of losing some positioning. The character is solid, and swords won't hurt him more than it does most others. Even the hard-hit-boxes that he can CC or catch people through with anything from Dash Attacks to fading F-Airs for any mild rewards or safety.
You can just QA > F-Air to shield poke with almost complete certainty, which leads to anything from Grabs to U-Smash. There's a buffer, so it's actually really difficult to mess it up, and you can WL out into Grabs/Tilts if there's distance, or any other aerial can lead to U-Smash or Grabs at most % anyway, or just more aerials. You don't have to jump before the QA either, so really, just DD and QA if any action is performed by an opponent within a SHFFL N-Air range from you. Eventually the matches just turn into stalemates though, since you're better off not doing actions if you're facing Pika, and don't really have to do anything if you're Pika. :/
This is the ZSS vid I was referring to. It's more in-line with what I see as the developing meta-game for her, though this is more what I described Day 1 of her release, things are a little different now. Same general direction though...
Im not sure what hitstun of QA is like in PM, but here is how you would do this if it did work.
Most good opponents wont allow you to just QA right next to them.
I think the main advantage of QaC is that it is highly unpredictable. You can QaC right next to a good person, in fact, you could quick attack into them. When you first activate the move your opponent does not know which direction you will go in, you could also mix it up with QaC 1 and 2. Over Dolphin Netplay, sometimes i just start going crazy with QaC and my opponents start throwing out desperation tilts and air moves
Just wait until there's a good Pika vs Mewtwo set on the web. Sometimes it feels like precision for offense just falls to the side of impossible, and I simply resort to empty Hovers with my back to him, hoping my U-Air and B-Air can scare him enough into thinking some impossible-to-set-up bait and counter maneuver is ready, while I attempt sneaking in a random Shadow Ball to force a maneuver I can get a TP > HC N-Air > Grab off of. I haven't played it from the Pika side yet, (there aren't exactly many good players playing Mewtwo, let alone good Mewtwo 3.0's becoming good players [yet]) but I could assume it's just an unpredictable stale-mate of lameness again. The punish Mewtwo has on Pika in small doses is great, given he's built for covering long-distance faster recoveries that aren't well covered on-route, rather than short recoveries that are covered but linear. So that flexibility makes it scary to try anything against Mewtwo, but so juicy given he can kill Mewtwo if one of the impossible-predictions of maneuvers works out favorably.
Over Netplay there are mainly 2 characters you fight. Roy and Mewtwo. Roy is easy, it is usually ****, pika is too damn fast for him to deal with. Mewtwo is easy for the same reasons, unless he uses his 2 Pika-killer moves, U-tilt and D-tilt. Those moves combo into themselves, and a **** ton of other things. But luckily they can both be punished. The only 2 characters ive ran into that seem impossible are Meta-night and DDD, but i think i lose to DDD from match-up in experience.
It's counterintuitive because you forgot you were playing Smash. In other fighting games you end your combos early with powerful moves because damage scaling makes that the most efficient option. In Smash, powerful moves eject, only killing the opponent if they're damaged enough. Not only that, but combo damage scaling is absent and Lucario's edgeguarding capabilities could be better (especially since this is Project M, with its very powerful recoveries). The end result is that you're only going those combo finishers when you know they're going to net you a kill - until then, your best damaging option is to continue the combo with more weak hits or reset with a mixup. It's not counterintuitive, it's just that Lucario is not actually from Street Fighter.
Oh boy here we go
That's drifting, not DI
I don't like the negative connotation on "jank" because it is the one word I would describe GnW with... Which probably could be replaced with a better word, but whatever. His is jank is so fun, and frankly gets slept on so much. I usually see him in the bottom 5 in people's tier lists and I find this so confusing. He's probably either 19-21, and there isn't really that much holding him back from being miles better.
All very good points. I do agree that GnW is very "jank" (no negative connotations attached). He's an awkward looking character that is just outright STRANGE. That being said, especially against an unsuspecting player, he can come out of nowhere and start conducting the Pain Train. As far as him being 19-21...well, there I have to disagree. You see, if this were 64, Melee, or Brawl, I would concur that he is ~mid tier. HOWEVER, this is P:M, and in P:M, everyone is good. To be mid tier, you have to be quite powerful. Even the low tiers can rank top 8 in tourneys. P:M is going to be a lot more about player skill and matchup knowledge than the other games.
Sorry, I meant I don't like playing against that. I know it's beneficial for him, but with a side b that you can't roll away from and is hard (unsure if possible with everyone) to spot dodge, where your best option is to shield and make the animation the same as grab makes playing against him weird. Having said that, I don't know if I'd change it. It's weird and I'm not a fan of being unable to see a move start and nit know what it is (I think sonic was the only one before this with really similar attack animations?). Unsure why this was a decided trait for wario, though, and why it is the grab that has an animation match.
you could just attack him
