Tier List Speculation

[DMG]

It's probably rife with secrets of Satanic Rituals and prayers to the Anti-Christ, to fuel the power of how unfun she is

 

[Zerudahime]

nice to see that you show your maturity level to the public dmg.
+5

 

[DMG]

That doesn't sound like a denial!

I can't make every post serious about Zelda. You can find and read plenty of serious posts about Zelda from me. Don't be such a hardass!

 

[Ripple]

DMG has shown the same maturity level since his beginning in this community. If can't handle it, you haven't been around long enough

 

[Zerudahime]

Sorry.
I try to avoid smashboards as much I can for that specific reason.

Like so many others that share the same opinion of this place as I do.

 

[Infil]

uhhhh seemed like an obvious joke to me

 

[Rᴏb]

I really wanna see how this plays out. I think it's clear that inaction is the wrong approach.

and lol @ getting mad at humor

 

[Ace55]

Since we're still on the Zelda train. I do absolutely hate fighting her and she has pretty much been the bane of my PM career. Of the 6 sets I've lost in PM three of them were against two different Zelda's (others were Ivy, Fox and Armada's Pit). However, there are always chars who are gonna be no fun to play against (generally speaking, I'm sure there are people who's wet dream is Zelda dittos). I also dislike fighting Ivy, puff, Peach, kinda Pit, etc. As long as these chars aren't broken though I don't see the need to change their design. Zelda is an annoying ***** but as long as she's not destroying the tournament scene it's fine, she's allowed to be. I just need to step up my game against her so people don't even want to play her against me anymore.

 

[Bleck]

There is plenty of information in the Zelda boards that people just so happen to conveniently ignore.
emphasizes her strengths and weaknesses and is pretty much a guide to fighting her.

Im surprised its even there considering how much everyone apparently knows so much about this character.
Should probably delete it.

Perhaps you skimmed over the discussion too quickly to really get the gist of it in your excitement to post this high-quality, premium-grade sarcasm, but the idea being expressed isn't that people think Zelda is overpowered or that they don't know how to beat her. The problem is that the optimum strategy for dealing with Zelda is painfully slow and boring. It's not that nobody can fight Zelda, it's that nobody wants to.

 

[jtm94]

Fighting against a campy Link, Jigglypuff, or a laser heavy Falco is painfully slow and boring. imo

I just wish I saw more reasons than, "She not that good, but she that good, but I don't wanna play to beat her, because that's no fun."

Zelda dittos are interesting, but they're derpy, as many dittos are.

It turns out that a lot of players actually enjoy playing defensive matchups, and some relish them enough to take games into time.

We already know Zelda is getting changed to some extent, it would be more beneficial to talk about this in the Zelda thread so improvements can be made, and this thread can continue to talk about how close all the tiers are, and that Squirtle and Ganon are, "bad."

 

[CyberZixx]

I actually like slower match ups. In melee Peach is my favorite match up. I'd much rather fight Peach, Ivy, Pit than Fox.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

...and this thread can continue to talk about how close all the tiers are, and that Squirtle and Ganon are, "bad."

The quotes seem unnecessary, like they're suggesting that the characters are more viable than they actually are.

As an aside, I think I main Squirtle now.

 

[Oro?!]

Have you finally seen the light, my son? Join us on the Squirtle conquest.

 

[Ripple]

You think wrong reflex

 

[SmashBrosMax]

Here's my list in case you're still taking input...

Top
1. Toon Link
2. Link
3. Falco
4. Wolf
5. Fox
6. Pit
High
7. Marth
8. Roy
9. Ike
10. Diddy
11. Squirtle
12. Falcon
13. Mewtwo
14. Sonic
Mid
15. Mario
16. Ganondorf
17. Peach
18. Pikachu
19. Shiek
20. Lucario
Low
21. DeDeDe
22. DonkeyKong
23. Charizard
24. Zero SuitSamus
25. Wario
26. Bowser
27. Lucas
Bottom
28. Jigglypuff
29. Zelda
30. Ivysaur
31. Ness
32. Luigi
33. R.O.B.
34. Snake
35. Game and Watch

 

[ELI-mination]

Metaknight is too damn good for tier lists

 

[Kink-Link5]

That list is missing like 6 characters.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

That list is pretty inaccurate and confusing.

Yet somehow I am fine with it

I wonder why

 

[Kink-Link5]

Because it doesn't contain Olimar and seeing Olimar's name fills you with a seething rage?

 

[Mr.Random]

Because it doesn't contain Olimar and seeing Olimar's name fills you with a seething rage?

I hate Olimar. He's still a campy ***** who only relies on his minions AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! Rant over. I'm sorry, please don't hit me .

 

[NightShadow6]

Olimar is the truth man.

 

[deadjames]

@ SmashBrosMax there are so many things wrong with that last I don't even know where to start.

 

[ELI-mination]

DK can roll out and gimp his opponents

 

[Ali Baba 177]

If you want you guys can help make a community tier list here! First one, rank based on tiers S--F, the latter you rank more specifically 1-41, take either or both!

<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Im trying to create a updated tier list since Apex and 3.0 being out for 2 month, I am putting in tourny results as before and trying to make a community tier list that reflects the most recent of opinions so if you guys could help and vote in the survey thatd be great!

The first one has you rank each character individually 1-41, I arranged it to what I think so it can be easier but itll still take a little time.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

If you dont care as much and/or dont wanna spend as much time then this one is just rankings based on tier.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

Please dont just destroy it with joke rankings. Thanks!

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Dont just mess it up though!

 

[Deleted member]

lmao the salt in here is godlike

 

[Jacob29]

Smash di pls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzGFooXC-1U

While this is possible, this implies that the Ness isn't doing anything. The time it takes to SDI they can simply react and act accordingly.

 

[DMG]

Not entirely. The grounded SDI method is much less vulnerable and doesn't offer Ness a really good opening if done quickly

 

[TheReflexWonder]

DMG is correct. Ness generally has to go balls deep with PK Fire to make lasting pressure with it on an educated opponent.

 

[Soft Serve]

I still dont get all the zelda hate. I guarantee you that a campy fox is much much worse than a campy zelda. Zelda cant actually get percent unless you mess up and step in a dins. She also cant convert as hard off a hit on most of the cast like fox or falco could. People don't really play campy spacies as much because they also happen to be the best characters at approaching. If were changing zelda at all we should give her buffs, allowing her to apply pressure better from an aggressor standpoint, but don't remove her current playstyle. Giving her more options that could give her incentive to play aggressive is fine, but be considerate of the people that play zelda now and respect the effort they've put in to develop her play.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Im trying to create a updated tier list since Apex and 3.0 being out for 2 month, I am putting in tourny results as before and trying to make a community tier list that reflects the most recent of opinions so if you guys could help and vote in the survey thatd be great!

The first one has you rank each character individually 1-41, I arranged it to what I think so it can be easier but itll still take a little time.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

If you dont care as much and/or dont wanna spend as much time then this one is just rankings based on tier.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

Please dont just destroy it with joke rankings. Thanks!

For the second one, can you relabel the rankings with S, A+, A-, B+, B, B- or something that shows that the tiers don't have a very large gap. When I think of an F tier character, I think of Kirby or Pichu from Melee, not Squirtle or Ness etc.

 

[GP&B]

I still dont get all the zelda hate. I guarentee you that a campy fox is much much worse than a campy zelda. Zelda cant actually get percent unless you mess up and step in a dins. She also cant convert as hard off a hit on most of the cast like fox or falco could. People dont really play campy spacies as much because they also happen to be the best characters at approaching. If were changing zelda at all we should give her buffs, allowing her to apply pressure better from an agressor standpoint, but dont remove her current playstyle. Giving her more options that lcould give her incentive to play aggresive is fine, but be considerate of the people play play zelda now and respect the effort theyve put in to develop her play.

Honestly, giving her the capability to approach effectively does sound like a tremendous help and would also leave her other tools unaffected in the process.

 

[Jacob29]

Hmm haven't tried the SDI downwards. Only going up and out.

But still.. Is it instant? And doesn't it cause a roll?

 

[Bleck]

Yes, let's give a character with smothering defensive options and also give them a hard, fast approach. I mean, to hell with it, just make all moves come out on the first frame and give everyone Falco lasers.

 

[DMG]

It wouldn't cause a roll unless you are trying to shield. If you just input SDI, there's no possible rolling involved. The video showed SDI + rolling as an option, but you can also skip the roll

 

[Soft Serve]

I wouldn't even call zelda's defensive options smothering. You can' just jab/tilt/fast aerial through dins fires, and if your approaches are getting caught out by land canceled neutral b's, which is her only real anti-air other than OoS nair, then just bait it out and punish. She got more landing lag on neutral B in the transition from 2.6b>3.0, which is something that is overlooked. It was punishable before, and is very punishable now. If you're approaches are getting snuffed by zelda, the same things would be happening if you approached a marth in the same way. Also, an ability to actually apply offensive pressure isn't the same thing as a hard approach.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

For the second one, can you relabel the rankings with S, A+, A-, B+, B, B- or something that shows that the tiers don't have a very large gap. When I think of an F tier character, I think of Kirby or Pichu from Melee, not Squirtle or Ness etc.

Alright I changed it, Thanks for the input.

 

[ELI-mination]

Yea let's turn the game into something only a certain type of player wants to play
To hell with diversity

 

[Rᴏb]

Just giving Zelda a good approach would not solve the problem, there would have to be some sort of trade off between that and her defensive options. What if Zelda's bair was given the knockback and power of fair, but got to keep it's trajectory angle? Fair would then be able to be changed into the approaching move, or vice versa. I'm not even gonna suggest a way to nerf Zelda's defenses for the sake of concealing any more of my ignorance.

And frankly if you think changing Zelda would harm the game's diversity so intensely, what would you rather say: there is a problem with the game as a whole, or there is a problem with Zelda specifically?