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Tier List Speculation

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
It's probably rife with secrets of Satanic Rituals and prayers to the Anti-Christ, to fuel the power of how unfun she is
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
That doesn't sound like a denial!

I can't make every post serious about Zelda. You can find and read plenty of serious posts about Zelda from me. Don't be such a hardass!
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
DMG has shown the same maturity level since his beginning in this community. If can't handle it, you haven't been around long enough
 

Zerudahime

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
145
Location
Johnstown, PA
Sorry.
I try to avoid smashboards as much I can for that specific reason.

Like so many others that share the same opinion of this place as I do.
 

Rᴏb

still here, just to suffer
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,595
I really wanna see how this plays out. I think it's clear that inaction is the wrong approach.

and lol @ getting mad at humor
 

Ace55

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,642
Location
Amsterdam
Since we're still on the Zelda train. I do absolutely hate fighting her and she has pretty much been the bane of my PM career. Of the 6 sets I've lost in PM three of them were against two different Zelda's (others were Ivy, Fox and Armada's Pit). However, there are always chars who are gonna be no fun to play against (generally speaking, I'm sure there are people who's wet dream is Zelda dittos). I also dislike fighting Ivy, puff, Peach, kinda Pit, etc. As long as these chars aren't broken though I don't see the need to change their design. Zelda is an annoying ***** but as long as she's not destroying the tournament scene it's fine, she's allowed to be. I just need to step up my game against her so people don't even want to play her against me anymore.
 

Bleck

Smash Master
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
3,133
There is plenty of information in the Zelda boards that people just so happen to conveniently ignore.
emphasizes her strengths and weaknesses and is pretty much a guide to fighting her.

Im surprised its even there considering how much everyone apparently knows so much about this character.
Should probably delete it.
Perhaps you skimmed over the discussion too quickly to really get the gist of it in your excitement to post this high-quality, premium-grade sarcasm, but the idea being expressed isn't that people think Zelda is overpowered or that they don't know how to beat her. The problem is that the optimum strategy for dealing with Zelda is painfully slow and boring. It's not that nobody can fight Zelda, it's that nobody wants to.
 

jtm94

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
1,384
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Fighting against a campy Link, Jigglypuff, or a laser heavy Falco is painfully slow and boring. imo

I just wish I saw more reasons than, "She not that good, but she that good, but I don't wanna play to beat her, because that's no fun."

Zelda dittos are interesting, but they're derpy, as many dittos are.

It turns out that a lot of players actually enjoy playing defensive matchups, and some relish them enough to take games into time.

We already know Zelda is getting changed to some extent, it would be more beneficial to talk about this in the Zelda thread so improvements can be made, and this thread can continue to talk about how close all the tiers are, and that Squirtle and Ganon are, "bad."
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
1,189
I actually like slower match ups. In melee Peach is my favorite match up. I'd much rather fight Peach, Ivy, Pit than Fox.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
2492-4449-2771
...and this thread can continue to talk about how close all the tiers are, and that Squirtle and Ganon are, "bad."
The quotes seem unnecessary, like they're suggesting that the characters are more viable than they actually are.

As an aside, I think I main Squirtle now.
 

SmashBrosMax

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
4
Here's my list in case you're still taking input...

Top
1. Toon Link
2. Link
3. Falco
4. Wolf
5. Fox
6. Pit
High
7. Marth
8. Roy
9. Ike
10. Diddy
11. Squirtle
12. Falcon
13. Mewtwo
14. Sonic
Mid
15. Mario
16. Ganondorf
17. Peach
18. Pikachu
19. Shiek
20. Lucario
Low
21. DeDeDe
22. DonkeyKong
23. Charizard
24. Zero SuitSamus
25. Wario
26. Bowser
27. Lucas
Bottom
28. Jigglypuff
29. Zelda
30. Ivysaur
31. Ness
32. Luigi
33. R.O.B.
34. Snake
35. Game and Watch
 
Last edited:

Ali Baba 177

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
274
Location
Washington
Im trying to create a updated tier list since Apex and 3.0 being out for 2 month, I am putting in tourny results as before and trying to make a community tier list that reflects the most recent of opinions so if you guys could help and vote in the survey thatd be great!

The first one has you rank each character individually 1-41, I arranged it to what I think so it can be easier but itll still take a little time.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

If you dont care as much and/or dont wanna spend as much time then this one is just rankings based on tier.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

Please dont just destroy it with joke rankings. Thanks!
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Not entirely. The grounded SDI method is much less vulnerable and doesn't offer Ness a really good opening if done quickly
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
2492-4449-2771
DMG is correct. Ness generally has to go balls deep with PK Fire to make lasting pressure with it on an educated opponent.
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
I still dont get all the zelda hate. I guarantee you that a campy fox is much much worse than a campy zelda. Zelda cant actually get percent unless you mess up and step in a dins. She also cant convert as hard off a hit on most of the cast like fox or falco could. People don't really play campy spacies as much because they also happen to be the best characters at approaching. If were changing zelda at all we should give her buffs, allowing her to apply pressure better from an aggressor standpoint, but don't remove her current playstyle. Giving her more options that could give her incentive to play aggressive is fine, but be considerate of the people that play zelda now and respect the effort they've put in to develop her play.
 
Last edited:

Fish&Herbs19

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
245
Location
Shenzhen, China
Im trying to create a updated tier list since Apex and 3.0 being out for 2 month, I am putting in tourny results as before and trying to make a community tier list that reflects the most recent of opinions so if you guys could help and vote in the survey thatd be great!

The first one has you rank each character individually 1-41, I arranged it to what I think so it can be easier but itll still take a little time.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

If you dont care as much and/or dont wanna spend as much time then this one is just rankings based on tier.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

Please dont just destroy it with joke rankings. Thanks!
For the second one, can you relabel the rankings with S, A+, A-, B+, B, B- or something that shows that the tiers don't have a very large gap. When I think of an F tier character, I think of Kirby or Pichu from Melee, not Squirtle or Ness etc.
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
Orlando, FL
NNID
MetalDude
I still dont get all the zelda hate. I guarentee you that a campy fox is much much worse than a campy zelda. Zelda cant actually get percent unless you mess up and step in a dins. She also cant convert as hard off a hit on most of the cast like fox or falco could. People dont really play campy spacies as much because they also happen to be the best characters at approaching. If were changing zelda at all we should give her buffs, allowing her to apply pressure better from an agressor standpoint, but dont remove her current playstyle. Giving her more options that lcould give her incentive to play aggresive is fine, but be considerate of the people play play zelda now and respect the effort theyve put in to develop her play.
Honestly, giving her the capability to approach effectively does sound like a tremendous help and would also leave her other tools unaffected in the process.
 

Jacob29

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
530
Hmm haven't tried the SDI downwards. Only going up and out.

But still.. Is it instant? And doesn't it cause a roll?
 

Bleck

Smash Master
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
3,133
Yes, let's give a character with smothering defensive options and also give them a hard, fast approach. I mean, to hell with it, just make all moves come out on the first frame and give everyone Falco lasers.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
It wouldn't cause a roll unless you are trying to shield. If you just input SDI, there's no possible rolling involved. The video showed SDI + rolling as an option, but you can also skip the roll
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
I wouldn't even call zelda's defensive options smothering. You can' just jab/tilt/fast aerial through dins fires, and if your approaches are getting caught out by land canceled neutral b's, which is her only real anti-air other than OoS nair, then just bait it out and punish. She got more landing lag on neutral B in the transition from 2.6b>3.0, which is something that is overlooked. It was punishable before, and is very punishable now. If you're approaches are getting snuffed by zelda, the same things would be happening if you approached a marth in the same way. Also, an ability to actually apply offensive pressure isn't the same thing as a hard approach.
 

Ali Baba 177

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
274
Location
Washington
For the second one, can you relabel the rankings with S, A+, A-, B+, B, B- or something that shows that the tiers don't have a very large gap. When I think of an F tier character, I think of Kirby or Pichu from Melee, not Squirtle or Ness etc.
Alright I changed it, Thanks for the input.
 

Rᴏb

still here, just to suffer
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,595
Just giving Zelda a good approach would not solve the problem, there would have to be some sort of trade off between that and her defensive options. What if Zelda's bair was given the knockback and power of fair, but got to keep it's trajectory angle? Fair would then be able to be changed into the approaching move, or vice versa. I'm not even gonna suggest a way to nerf Zelda's defenses for the sake of concealing any more of my ignorance.

And frankly if you think changing Zelda would harm the game's diversity so intensely, what would you rather say: there is a problem with the game as a whole, or there is a problem with Zelda specifically?
 
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