Tier List Speculation

[GMaster171]

If you up-b face first into the wrong hitbox yes.

But that's why you can control the angle you go at, and stall... and generally avoid it >.>

 

[Vashimus]

Samus up-tilt.

 

[Ripple]

DDD bair/fair/f-tilt

 

[Bryonato]

you guys are the kind of people that get hit by pkt2

 

[Burnsy]

Squirtle bubbles or nair

Edit: are we listing moves that put below the stage, or moves that successfully edgeguard a sweet spotting ness?
in that case bubble>Nair, set kb reverse hit on dsmash, bair stage spike, fsmash down angled, etc....

 

[The_NZA]

You edge guard ness NOT by jumping into pkt1. That is a very rare opportunity that you can take somtimes if your feeling brazen. But really, if you choose to "go for it" then you cant stall or decide. You just have to act.

Typically, you edgeguard ness by forcing him to recover low. EVERYONE almost i would argue has the chance to do this, seeing as Ness both telegraphs where he's recovering, and that the last half of his PKT2 hitbox doesn't have the greatest priority. My recommendation is either
1. use edge invincibility frames to hit a ness
Or
2. Use an attack from the ground to punish where you think he's going to "slide across" or end up above. Smash attacks are always good, or retreating bairs.
OR
3. Bair/fair him with one of your characters, with the largest hitbox you got. Typically, you want to aim to hit him in the second half of pkt 2, so usually you actually want to stay on the ground, but mobile enough to get to wherever you think he's going to go

Once he's off the stage and below, he will try and recover low and will likely be unable to sweetspot the edge. At that point, you get a lot more options.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Ness used up-b near the ledge.
Ganon Sparta kicked pkt2.
Ganon won.

 

[trash?]

what in the hell is "brazen" about jumping at an opponent to get a pretty free kill

if anything, that's a pretty safe choice, for an off-stage edgeguard

 

[Vashimus]

Plus if you play a heavy character, you can afford to be a bit reckless trying to beat recoveries out, since trades are more often than not in your favor.

 

[Bryonato]

what in the hell is "brazen" about jumping at an opponent to get a pretty free kill

if anything, that's a pretty safe choice, for an off-stage edgeguard

Canon i love you man but you sound like you've never played a Ness. In all my matches I've had pkt eaten by an intentional attempt maybe 5-10 times.

 

[The_NZA]

what in the hell is "brazen" about jumping at an opponent to get a pretty free kill

if anything, that's a pretty safe choice, for an off-stage edgeguard

What happens if the initial hitbox that I emit when I pkt1 hits you away?
a. you lost the edge guard opportunity
b. you are in a dangerously bad position to get tailwhipped->pkt2->death

What do you do if I loop my PKt1 in a large circle that is unexpected?
a. you could adjust and try and jump into it (guessing game)
b. You could get clipped by my pkt1 tail and pkt2 killed

What do you do if I use a fair/dair/magnet to push you away to create breathing room?
What do you do if I just go for the air dodge with my pretty good double jump?

The fact is, Ness's pkt1 is quick, it has a long tail, and his body has a hitbox when he first uses it to stop this kind of a thing. It is incredibly risky to go for it unless you KNOW you can do it. It's really not as easy as you think, and by comparison, it IS easy to unexpectedly touch a pkt1 tail and then eat a pkt2 shortly afterwards.

 

[JOE!]

.... doesnt PK1 get destroyed when you get hit by it? What is this talk of it hitting somebody and then Ness still able to recover?

 

[Kink-Link5]

what in the hell is "brazen" about jumping at an opponent to get a pretty free kill

if anything, that's a pretty safe choice, for an off-stage edgeguard

PKT1 startup has a pretty massive hitbox around Ness's body that sends opponents away before the projectile even comes out. How much do you really know about Ness?

Now Peach, Sheik, Mario, Link, et al. are a different story since they can just throw out a projectile to swipe the bolt away from him.

 

[Ginge]

PKT1 gets destroyed if you hit the head of it. If you hit the tail of it, it still keeps going. The_NZA's also talking about Ness himself has a hitbox at the initial use of the attack if the enemy is too close, but not close enough (above) to eat the PKT1.

 

[Solharath]

Samus up-tilt.

1, 2, 3, 4 – I got Ice Fair.

 

[trash?]

this still doesn't sound very difficult to edgeguard, the few drawbacks you're all giving here are entirely rendered useless by competent timing

 

[The_NZA]

this still doesn't sound very difficult to edgeguard, the few drawbacks you're all giving here are entirely rendered useless by competent timing

Your missing a very key point: the Ness player has a lot more control on the outcome now and he can change the timing by adding more variables. There isn't as bad an hourglass on pkt now. Its not like "well, I have this window where I can jump in and ness has no answers because he's got to loop that thing around quickly or else he dies".

Ness players at a high level can stall out tha pkt1 for a while. If I saw you jumping at me, I'd probably try to fair and fast fall, forcing you to either commit to going really low to hit me, or retreat back to the stage. If you come for me, i'm pretty happy because its going to be easier for me to loop my pkt1 in funny ways, in big or small circles, and eventually make it back onto the stage because of the sheer distance pkt2 has.

 

[Bryonato]

this still doesn't sound very difficult to edgeguard, the few drawbacks you're all giving here are entirely rendered useless by competent timing

personal experience > how easy something "sounds"

mm me at apex

 

[Giygacoal]

Does anyone else think the three tiers in Project M should be:

Upper-Safest to play round 1 and test the opponent with
Mid-Slightly smaller niche; know your opponent well and get a good stage
Lower-Even smaller niche; most reliant on counterpicking aspects

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'll just make a tier list so people can argue about it and >imply things about ganon

 

[Ogopogo]

I've even grown sick of ironic greentext.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

>implying there's any other kind of greentext

 

[Ogopogo]

Generally all greentext outside of 4chan is/should be used ironically.

Greentext is good for telling humorous stories, I think. Not much more than that.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm already using it triple ironically. I got sick of it awhile ago, then picked it up for ****s and giggles not long after
repeat twice
>goml

 

[Ogopogo]

>the plot thickens

 

[Deleted member]

personal experience > how easy something "sounds"

mm me at apex

i no longer play for money, but i'd like to play you if only to see how resilient you can make the character look. i'm fairly convinced that ness sucks at this point but i'm open to being proven wrong.

 

[Vashimus]

You are required to read Umbreon's post in the most elegant sexiest gentleman voice that you possibly can make.

 

[Nguz95]

Ness happens to have one of the most devoted fanbases in PM. All the Ness mains pool thier knowlege and share tech witheach other. As a result, Ness is probably one of the most developed characters in the ame right now. Lucas's metagame, for example, probably isn't even half as developed as Ness's is. Be warned Umbreon, you'll see a lot of stuff you aren't prepared for.

 

[DMG]

Ness is a pretty simple character though. He doesn't have 17 precise janky input cancel bigmac "in your face" auto burger things to worry about. You have Fair, Dair, PK Fire, and grab as the character. Yes he has a lot of players sharing anything they know and working hard to develop him, but I don't think that's entirely a fair comparison with someone as complicatedly janky and weird as Lucas.

 

[Deleted member]

i'm terrified.

 

[Bryonato]

Ness is a pretty simple character though. He doesn't have 17 precise janky input cancel bigmac "in your face" auto burger things to worry about. You have Fair, Dair, PK Fire, and grab as the character. Yes he has a lot of players sharing anything they know and working hard to develop him, but I don't think that's entirely a fair comparison with someone as complicatedly janky and weird as Lucas.

i'm probably interpreting this poorly but there is definitely much more depth to the character than that. With djc and magnet alone ness is a very "janky" character. the way Awestin plays him (which i'm sure is the way you're most familiar with) is an outlier compared to my experience with the ness community.

though maybe you're just listing his strongest moves.

i no longer play for money, but i'd like to play you if only to see how resilient you can make the character look. i'm fairly convinced that ness sucks at this point but i'm open to being proven wrong.

I was actually calling out Canon, but i certainly wouldn't mind playing a few sets with you, though a better example of the character's potential would be someone like NZA or Calabrel.

 

[GP&B]

If Lucas is more underdeveloped than Ness and has shown more promise across the board despite that, then I'm way more worried for what he'll bring to tournaments than Ness.

 

[DMG]

Everyone is, or would have been until ya hold down at janky spots to outjank the Lucas

i'm probably interpreting this poorly but there is definitely much more depth to the character than that. With djc and magnet alone ness is a very "janky" character. the way Awestin plays him (which i'm sure is the way you're most familiar with) is an outlier compared to my experience with the ness community.

though maybe you're just listing his strongest moves.

I didn't mean that was his entire depth, just that the Ness v Lucas comparison isn't really that valid because of how much more complicated Lucas is. It would be like if I said DK had his meta developed further than Lucas. It's like OK, what else was there to figure out? How to CC and grab better? Etc. It seems like an obvious statement, regardless of how well either character is represented, due to the gap of how "straight forward" they are.

 

[Vashimus]

The year is 20XX....

...The Ness and Lucas players have finally achieved perfection.

No one is safe.

...

I think I hear someondjidjsndnsmdjdoekdnbhhhpslsmzoshfnemanabaudte

 

[DMG]

The year is 20xx...

Zelda is removed from all Smash games


Where's my Nobel Smash Medal?

 

[Deleted member]

i kinda just want to make a zelda hate thread to better gauge the community's actual impression of her. i know i hate pm zelda and i know a lot of other people do, but atm i feel a topic like that would go downhill really fast.

real talk though **** zelda. idk how my favorite smash character got on my hate list but she did.

 

[DMG]

Make me admin, co-creator, platinum member and overlord of that group. I will lead this group to success. Playing as, or against Zelda, is basically akin to third world genocide of garden gnomes

 

[GP&B]

I don't like her either, but I kinda want to hear more articulated thoughts on why people hate her too. I see "one-dimensional interaction" a lot and I don't fully grasp what this is getting at.

 

[SixSaw]

What's so bad about Zelda exactly? I don't get the (negative) hype.

 

[Deleted member]

ok well...this is a tangent but i think it's hard to describe WHY zelda is so loathable. i've tried to diagnose her under my own rules and definitions for interactions and it's hard to pin anything really degenerate on her. but the fact remains, if everyone hates the character then something has to give whether she's fine on paper or not. we don't want aspects to a game for the community that pushes potential community members away.

however, i also think zelda needs to be BETTER before she gets WORSE, so the goal is to both make her more viable and to make everyone not hate her. if this is something a lot of people can get behind, i'll take the idea more seriously. atm all it's been is fighting with zhime/ryoko on streams lol