Tier List Speculation

[BJN39]

^ But with that approach, Zelda would be in A tier.


And I know nobody wants that.

 

[Oracle]

If you used that definition every character in the game would be in the top two tiers, save a couple

 

[Mr.Random]

If you used that definition every character in the game would be in the top two tiers, save a couple

Well is the goal make everyone viable or make everyone S tier?

 

[Tlock]

The A tier consists of semi-viable characters who can place high in very competent hands, but have significant disadvantages that keep them from consistently placing high in significant tournaments.

I believe every character in 2.6b already fits into this definition. You could even replace "significant disadvantages" with minor or moderate disadvantages and all of the 2.6b cast would still be in A tier or above.

Well is the goal make everyone viable or make everyone S tier?

The original goal of the project was to make everyone viable in a tournament setting, or around Marth - C.Falc - Peach level if comparing to melee. I am pretty sure that goal remains the same to this day.

2.6b isn't there yet, but 3.0 will get closer to this goal and the next balancing patch, whenever that may come out, will probably obtain that goal.

 

[KayB]

2.6b isn't there yet, but 3.0 will get closer to this goal and the next balancing patch, whenever that may come out, will probably obtain that goal.

Balancing is a difficult job. We can't say for certain that 3.0 will automatically be better, much less achieve perfect balancing, just because it's the next update. The addition of new characters will also make the job harder too. Nothing is solid yet.

 

[F. Blue]

I'm surprised not to see Bowser and Ivysaur at the top of any of these lists. Those are the characters everyone complains about in tournaments, stream chats, Facebook ect.

 

[Ogopogo]

I'm surprised not to see Bowser and Ivysaur at the top of any of these lists. Those are the characters everyone complains about in tournaments, stream chats, Facebook ect.

That's because they aren't as broken as people say. They just haven't had much time to develop a metagame, so people don't know how to counter them.

At least, that's what I think.

 

[F. Blue]

I understand Bowser has his limits, but Ivysaur was broken since 2.5, then he got buffed.

 

[ELI-mination]

Well damn, if people complain I guess you have a point bro

 

[GunBlaze]

I understand Bowser has his limits, but Ivysaur was bad in 2.5, then she got buffed.

Fixed

 

[MagnesD3]

Well damn, if people complain I guess you have a point bro

To be fair people will complain no matter what. (See sentinel vanil mvc3).

 

[Mr.Random]

I believe every character in 2.6b already fits into this definition. You could even replace "significant disadvantages" with minor or moderate disadvantages and all of the 2.6b cast would still be in A tier or above.



The original goal of the project was to make everyone viable in a tournament setting, or around Marth - C.Falc - Peach level if comparing to melee. I am pretty sure that goal remains the same to this day.

2.6b isn't there yet, but 3.0 will get closer to this goal and the next balancing patch, whenever that may come out, will probably obtain that goal.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[deadjames]

Fixed

Ivysaur's gender is neutral because there is no distinction between male and female for that particular species of Pokemon. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting that it has to be female, the only Pokemon in Smash that we can actually definitively know the gender of is Pikachu, he's a male because female Pikachus have a little dimple in their tails. Sorry, but that's just been bugging me and I finally had to say something.

 

[DMG]

Gender excluded, Ivy's still a hoe. She digs into the dirt and slays little Pikmin

 

[deadjames]

Gender excluded, Ivy's still a hoe. She digs into the dirt and slays little Pikmin

I see what you did there, but we all know those Pikmin deserve to die.

 

[Spiffykins]

Ivysaur's gender is neutral because there is no distinction between male and female for that particular species of Pokemon. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting that it has to be female, the only Pokemon in Smash that we can actually definitively know the gender of is Pikachu, he's a male because female Pikachus have a little dimple in their tails. Sorry, but that's just been bugging me and I finally had to say something.

PMBR says their version of Ivy is female, therefore she is female. Lucario is a predominantly male species, therefore the likely assumption is that Lucario is male. The same goes for Jiggs being female. Mewtwo is genderless but generally has a male voice, so "he" is fairly appropriate in that instance.

Zard and Squirtle errr ummm...whatever man why does this bother you anyway

 

[Zwarm]

Ivysaur's gender is neutral because there is no distinction between male and female for that particular species of Pokemon. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting that it has to be female, the only Pokemon in Smash that we can actually definitively know the gender of is Pikachu, he's a male because female Pikachus have a little dimple in their tails. Sorry, but that's just been bugging me and I finally had to say something.

Ivy's VA in the Japanese version of the game makes Ivy sound clearly female, therefore female has stuck.

 

[DMG]

Ivy sounds like a grunting walrus

 

[deadjames]

PMBR says their version of Ivy is female, therefore she is female. Lucario is a predominantly male species, therefore the likely assumption is that Lucario is male. The same goes for Jiggs being female. Mewtwo is genderless but generally has a male voice, so "he" is fairly appropriate in that instance.

Zard and Squirtle errr ummm...whatever man why does this bother you anyway

Calling Ivy female doesn't bother me, either "him," or "her" works just fine since there's no way of knowing for sure since the English language doesn't have a gender neutral term, I just finally got tired of seeing posts insisting that Ivy must be referred to as female.

 

[Ogopogo]

Ivy sounds like a grunting walrus

implying that women cant sound like grunting walruses

 

[GunBlaze]

implying that women cant sound like grunting walruses

American Ivysaur is voiced by a MAN.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That's why you've gotta get on that Fushigisou voice-acting.

 

[GunBlaze]

That's why you've gotta get on that Fushigisou voice-acting.

I do, as a tribute to her...

 

[Ogopogo]

American Ivysaur is voiced by a MAN.

...yes, and?

Kappa

 

[ELI-mination]

To be fair I was being sarcastic

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ivysaur was pretty awful in 2.5.

 

[Zwarm]

I do, as a tribute to her...

Same. RIP

 

[Ace55]

To be fair I was being sarcastic

Damn, so all this time you were being sarcastic? You really should've let us in on the joke sooner man, you influenced a lot of people.

Ok PMBR hold the massive nerfs to spacies, Eli was just being sarcastic.

 

[ELI-mination]

You're not too bright are you

 

[\Apples]

Man, this game sure is fun to ***** about. :D

 

[Ace55]

You're not too bright are you

That's sarcastic right?

 

[NeonApophis]

Repost of tier list for Oracle.

Spoiler

S Tier
1. Falco
2. Fox
3. Lucas
4. Wolf

A+ Tier
5. Peach
6. Sheik
7. Ivysaur
8. Meta Knight

A Tier
9. Mario
10. Game and Watch
11. Marth
12. Charizard
13. Pikachu
14. Zelda
15. Snake
16. Ness

A- Tier
17. Wario
18. Ike
19. Captain Falcon
20. Pit
21. Jigglypuff
22. Lucario
23. Ganondorf
24. Donkey Kong
25. Bowser
26. Link
27. Squirtle
28. Dedede
29. Luigi

B+ Tier
30. Toon Link
31. Zero Suit Samus
32. Sonic
33. ROB
34. Diddy

 

[\Apples]

That list is clownin' dawg.

 

[Deleted member]

The original goal of the project was to make everyone viable in a tournament setting, or around Marth - C.Falc - Peach level if comparing to melee. I am pretty sure that goal remains the same to this day.

if this is true then i can think of quite a few characters that still need some work.

 

[Nguz95]

Like Marth. That guy sucks.

 

[mYzeALot]

Soon enough we will be having our own Turbo mode tier lists. When that day comes the arguments will be insanely biased, but awesome nevertheless.

 

[Deleted member]

Like Marth. That guy sucks.

marth is exactly perfect and should not be changed at all.

 

[SillyGoose]

Tentative tier list for Oracle, just from watching vids and messing around at Chicago locals:

Spoiler

S Tier

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Metaknight
4. Ivysaur
5. Wolf
6. Sheik

A+ Tier

7. Lucas
8. Pit
9. Wario
10. Zero Suit Samus
11. Mario
12. Bowser

A Tier

13. Toon Link
14. Zelda
15. Marth
16. Snake
17. Ness
18. Jigglypuff
19. Peach
20. Lucario

A- Tier

21. Diddy Kong
22. Link
23. Donkey Kong
24. Game and Watch
25. Ike
26. Charizard
27. Squirtle
28. Rob

B Tier

29. King Dedede
30. Sonic
31. Pikachu
32. Luigi
33. Captain Falcon
34. Ganondorf

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Lol at that low falcon placement, but you might be onto something there. Also holy **** that Zelda. Personally, I'd combine the A- and B tiers, as there's not much of a difference between Diddy and Ganon. Also, I'd move Sonic, Ike, and Rob a tier hgher.

 

[trash?]

I honestly don't feel comfortable in giving out anything proper that's not just a top 5 and nothing else buuut
(opinions are mostly thought processes and nothing solid SORRY)

Spoiler

Boy Tier
0. Roy

S+ Tier
1. Fox
2. MK (gives falco neg. MUs compared to fox)
3. Falco

S Tier
4. Lucas (the second ppl finalize his tech skill, he'll be perf)
5. Shiek

A+ Tier
6. Wolf (fav spacie HIS COMBOS ARE DUMB AND FUN combos should be more fun and dumb like his)
7. Ivysaur (he's overrated but it's not like he's rly BAD)
8. Wario
9. Marth (shhhh he's low tier)
10. Peach (of all the old timey A-tiers, marth + peach play with the new kids the nicest)

A Tier
11. Mario (dude's got stubby arms, lords can outspace him but most don't fully understand how)
12. Snake (alright fine, you can go up here, off you go prof)
13. DK (combos anything into anything else, ppl say "auto combos" b/c of this but ehh he's not the worst offender, he's just good with conversions. could be lower b/c of problem MUs, but he wins a good chunk of them handily)
14. Ness (PK fire gimmicks, though even then good spacing with them can cause some lockdowns, and he still combos like a rude boy)
15. ZSS (tiny lady falcon with tethers and stuns)

B+ tier
16. Ike (aaagh bair)
17. Pit (he's alright, but nothing worth getting worked up over)
18. Zelda (good enough where shielda actually covers basically every MU, for what it is worth)
19. Link
29. Game & Watch (well at least you aren't low tier anymore)
21. Jigglypuff (poor jiggs)
22. Captain Falcon (you too, I guess tho I think you're a butt char anyways so I'm okay with that)

B Tier
23. Charizard (half the cast beats him up, he beats up the other half)
24. Bowser (oh no his hitboxes are so big what could I possibly-- oh yeah grab him, right)
25. Lucario (has little in the way of neutral game, but at least he does some damage I guess)
26. ROB (MDVA's best player being a ROB player is to be treated as a problem with MDVA, not the meta. Kappa)
27. Diddy Kong
28. Pikachu (oh come on he's not too awful)
29. Luigi (neutral game still ass tbh)

Pls Go Tier (only ones who need any real chunky changes)
30. DDD (not that bad against certain MUs? but still prettty bad
31. Toon Link (jolteon pls go)
32. Ganon (THE VORTEX that only works on specific characters and even then is kind of gimmicky)
33. Squirtle (poor squirtle players)
34. Sonic (LMAOOOOOOOOO. fun fact: the MK/Sonic matchup is won by the MK player spamming nair, because sonic can do NOTHING about it and cannot trade anything, it's hilarious)