Tier List Speculation

[CyberZixx]

I am the worst at edge guarding Mario. It seems he snaps to the edge from a mile away and can return from a 10 miles away and has 1 million mix ups with his recovery due to the wall jump. I guess I just gotta be more agressive vs off stage Mario.

 

[Juushichi]

I am the worst at edge guarding Mario. It seems he snaps to the edge from a mile away and can return from a 10 miles away and has 1 million mix ups with his recovery due to the wall jump. I guess I just gotta be more agressive vs off stage Mario.

you shouldn't do that

because then you'll see that mario's hitboxes on his up-b beat everything

 

[Professor Pro]

Missed everything.

Can someone link me to the bracket and also the uploads

 

[DMG]

Can't Upb dem Falco feet

Pro: No we can't. There was no Snake, gg he dropped on the tier list



Based nikita

 

[metroid1117]

Missed everything.

Can someone link me to the bracket and also the uploads

I don't know where the bracket is, but you can check out some of the videos on VGBC's channel. The top 4 were the following:

1. Kirk (Bowser)
2. Pikachad (Mario/ZSS)
3. VanZ (Peach/Sheik/others)
4. Mew2King (Sheik/Fox)

 

[DMG]

Vanz had ROB as well against Pikachad

 

[Archangel]

Mew2king also used Bowser, Falco and Mario

 

[Professor Pro]

Can't Upb dem Falco feet

Pro: No we can't. There was no Snake, gg he dropped on the tier list



Based nikita

But it doesnt count. I would have won if I went! (15% Troll comment, 85% serious comment lol)

And thanks Metroid

 

[Juushichi]

I'd take Kirk vs Prof at 55-45 for now.

Hopefully we'll see in three months?

 

[DMG]

Bowzer 2 phat 4 Ekans

 

[Nausicaa]

Just space aerials on Bowser's face and throw him off-stage instead of trying to 70% damage combo off grabs.
The meta shifting away from just 'hit his face out of Up-B range and throw him away to nullify any positioning he has'
Probably because everybody is more comfortable with THEIR OWN play now, and wants to/thinks they can/thinks it's worth trying to combo a big-character to oblivion than just F-throw gimp attempts all match.
Stop combos and go for kills.
Snake Side-Throw > Fair Spike for example... instead of CG > Bomb > Uair > Explode.
It's Bowser, that crap doesn't work and never has! Why/when did people start trying to do this? haha

Snake vs Bowser would be a fun match to watch at a good level for that reason.

MaxwelMouse, just hang on when Mario would want to grab it/use invincibility to make him go for the wall-jump/then punish him after the jump/after the 2nd Up-B. He's vulnerable, despite having options galore. Be patience and don't rush him down unless your character and position is fit for it (ROB/Falcon/etc) and don't stay on-stage camping the ledge if you can force him to drop and wall-jump (projectiles/good edge-play).
Mario is cool.

 

[Scythe]

bowser prolly beats snake. Bowser edgeguards snake better than anyone.

 

[Archangel]

I'd bet heavy on Professor Pro. Not that I don't believe in Bowser's good enough to do well...I just see Pro's snake as too much for Kirk. Uthrow chaingrabs at low% followed by sticky-combo-explosions all day. If it's a best of 3 then 2-0 Professor Pro. If it's a best of 5 3-1 Professor Pro. My 2 cents.

 

[DMG]

Bowser... edgeguards Snake better than anyone?







I didn't know Marth and Sheik were stripped from this game

 

[Nausicaa]

bowser prolly beats snake. Bowser edgeguards snake better than anyone.

I would've considered it because Snake can't space crap on Bowser's face the way almost every other character can with speed or aerial mobility and zoning pressure.
Snake does what Bowser does, but can do it offensively by approaching opponents with it. Bowser does what Snake does a lot better but can't approach...
So Snake going to Bowser... so Bowser can win Snake's battle...
Gotta be gimping that big thing and getting him off-stage lots. DD-Grab and U-throw > F-smash into free spikes. All day, or bust.
That's what I'm seeing anyway.

 

[Archangel]

I think Marth edgeguard's snake better than anyone else personally. It's just like...death time a thousand.

 

[Nausicaa]

That's probably just because that's what Marth always likes to do (set up edge-guards) so it happens lots.
It's as if that's what more people should do against other characters that suck without positioning/off-stage.

 

[Archangel]

That's probably just because that's what Marth always likes to do (set up edge-guards) so it happens lots.
It's as if that's what more people should do against other characters that suck without positioning/off-stage.

nah you don't understand bro...Marth doesn't even have to hit him. He can hit that little parachute thinggy with his dair and it spikes snake....for some reason...idk..it's ****ing ********! I would actually Money match any snake player in PM with Marth. I feel pretty confident in that MU.

 

[Professor Pro]

No, you still have to hit Snake.

It might seem like you are hitting just the cypher but I've seen times where people have Dair'd the cypher and not me.

And I still dont think Marth vs Snake is that bad tbh. I would def comfortably MM you if it were possible lol

Also Sheik is way more annoying to recover against with Snake than Marth

 

[Professor Pro]

Just space aerials on Bowser's face and throw him off-stage instead of trying to 70% damage combo off grabs.

Space aerials.....????
You do realise Snake has the worst aerial mobility in the game (as in literally THE WORST) and all of his aerials are terrible in neutral.
There is no such thing as 'Just space aerials' in a Snake world lol...

(sorry for double post, on xbox lol)

 

[DMG]

"Snake can't space crap on Bowser's face the way almost every other character can"

He covered that already

 

[Nausicaa]

I could still be clearer. People get confused by like... EVERYTHING I post it seems. /terribad-poster

Space aerials.....????

Read post above + that's why it would be weird to see Snake vs Bowser with both players being good + What's your general game-plan against Bowser anyway?

I just try grab > throw off-stage at every chance I get. Maybe sometimes U-throw > sticky/early % F-smash for it instead...
Rarely much else as a BnB in that match-up... it gets more and more limiting with better competition, and I'd like to see the end result. Would be interesting.


My vote is DK being the easiest to edge-guard Snake with.

 

[Archangel]

No, you still have to hit Snake.

It might seem like you are hitting just the cypher but I've seen times where people have Dair'd the cypher and not me.

And I still dont think Marth vs Snake is that bad tbh. I would def comfortably MM you if it were possible lol

Also Sheik is way more annoying to recover against with Snake than Marth

yeah I know I was just exaggerating the stupidity.

I'm going to try to go to Apex 2014. Should you end up going as well then I'll MM you. It should be fun.

 

[Mew2King]

I am 100% completely convinced sheik is not that good. Only reason I play her is cuz she's similar to melee so my skill transfers, but she feels a lot worse as a character in general compared to the other characters. I want to play roy/mewtwo a lot but I kind of feel like waiting cuz I don't want them to be uber nerfed if i invest a lot of effort into them and they get UBER nerfed like wizzy did with sonic (to be fair sonic was god tier but they made him like what low or bottom tier when they could have just made him like high tier or something). I also think wolf is ridiculously insanely good, like INSANELY good and people don't realize how good that character is. (I've thought of this for many months before big house btw).

 

[Deleted member]

I am 100% completely convinced sheik is not that good. Only reason I play her is cuz she's similar to melee so my skill transfers, but she feels a lot worse as a character in general compared to the other characters. I want to play roy/mewtwo a lot but I kind of feel like waiting cuz I don't want them to be uber nerfed if i invest a lot of effort into them and they get UBER nerfed like wizzy did with sonic (to be fair sonic was god tier but they made him like what low or bottom tier when they could have just made him like high tier or something). I also think wolf is ridiculously insanely good, like INSANELY good and people don't realize how good that character is. (I've thought of this for many months before big house btw).

why is she not as good?

be specific. i think she's incredible so it's weird that ours opinions are so different.

 

[Professor Pro]

yeah I know I was just exaggerating the stupidity.

I'm going to try to go to Apex 2014. Should you end up going as well then I'll MM you. It should be fun.

I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLY want to go Apex 2014.
There's soooo many amazing PM and Melee players going that I want to play, it's ridiculous and I feel for myself I want to leave a mark on the smash scene as the player I atleast feel I can be.

Money wise I will have to see though

 

[Mew2King]

dunno what it is but she just feels so abusable and not able to abuse the others. Down smash for example is far better in melee, in PM it hits too far so the 2nd and 3rd hits never have a chance to hit the shield or opponent to mess up their timings OOS, nair oos is worse (in practicality cuz of shield push back and just situations i would use it in?), shield grabs are worse in general, throws are worse since it's not guaranteed KOs or guaranteed combos, and she feels way harder to kill or gimp anybody with. She also gets death comboed by some characters, but she's not good at death comboing others unless it's at the ledge.

dunno if this is true but she also feels smaller (smaller limbs) compared to a lot of other chars. In melee you can just Bair them to gimp like any character or trade at worst but in this game she gets overrided a lot. Relative to the rest of the cast she is far, far better in melee. I'm mostly waiting for roy/mewtwo because I'm hyped for them (I think I'm best or 2nd best with those characters in melee but I think they are pretty garbage chars so I only use them a bit for funsies instead of seriously) but I don't want people to go nerf crazy + i don't own PM so i feel i need to wait. I'm not really trusting the buff/nerfs after what they did to sonic.

 

[Archangel]

I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLY want to go Apex 2014.
There's soooo many amazing PM and Melee players going that I want to play, it's ridiculous and I feel for myself I want to leave a mark on the smash scene as the player I atleast feel I can be.

Money wise I will have to see though

I'm in the same boat. I know our money issues are different seeing as how you have to fly over here. For me, I just have to start an Apex fun...etc for myself. I'll set aside any extra change or money even if it's like 1 dollar. By the time registration time comes up I should have no problem joining.

 

[GHNeko]

Time for a PROFESSOR PRO TO APEX FUNDRAISER

 

[Deleted member]

i feel like PM sheik has some of marth's weird traits, but the main one is her downthrow. PM sheik downthrow should be used like melee marth's throws where you want them in a gay position and then you're sheik and they can't deal with you and you'll kill them anyway.

to me sheik feels like melee sheik except more fluid, better recovery, BETTER downthrow because it's faster in teams and pretty much equal in singles, and a better nair OOS, etc.

 

[DMG]

Use Marth Dthrow, regardless of character and %. Go instill fear into their souls

 

[Mew2King]

nair OOS is worse because shield stun pushes you too far back for it to be as good, recovery is FAR worse because you cannot do those tricks where you can be horizontal with the stage and instantly land on the edge of the stage near the ledge (high level sheik stuff i use it a lot vs falcos in melee if you watch the vids), and down throw is significantly worse because it's not guaranteed and the chain grab is gone unless they DI in. Where other chars have almost guaranteed large combos and sheik has to 50 50 on a dash attack or f tilt that really sucks. I see her as far inferior and I wish it wasn't that way cuz I would like to play her still but she simply isn't good enough to compete with the top tiers unless she's on certain specific stages only.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Obviously PM is much more balanced than Melee is, but how much better? In your opinion, who is the worst character on the roster and how would they rank if they were in Melee. Just for an interesting comparison.

 

[Mew2King]

btw i was talking to Toph just now on Facebook, and apparently Silent wolf was in the pmbr, and he quit because they didn't listen to him when he said wolf is OP and the changes to make were ignored. He mains wolf and was trying to get his own character nerfed apparantly cuz he thought some things were too good, but they didn't listen at all, and he wins every tourney on WC there with him. I sent a request to be in the PMBR and I got declined, and I got a message saying because I didn't have the wii, which could be understandable even though I personally think it's BS but that's just my opinion, but Wizzy just told me on Facebook that a lot of ppl get into the PMBR without wiis and they are just being biased. So all the info I learned over the past hour, if what toph/wizzy said is true, is pretty crappy.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik nair oos has been just as good for me as melee except fox/falco aren't as good at pressure so defensively it feels like she has no losing MUs.

i think most of sheik's combos are still hilariously auto-combo status and her amazing edge guard is one of the few to beat the new and improved recoveries.

with downthrow it's w/e because the opponent is in a ****ty position anyway and a lot of the time the backthrow change and increased speed is a net gain over losing the CG.

idk she feels super top tier to me, i haven't had any of those problems.

 

[Professor Pro]

btw i was talking to Toph just now on Facebook, and apparently Silent wolf was in the pmbr, and he quit because they didn't listen to him when he said wolf is OP and the changes to make were ignored. He mains wolf and was trying to get his own character nerfed apparantly cuz he thought some things were too good, but they didn't listen at all, and he wins every tourney on WC there with him. I sent a request to be in the PMBR and I got declined, and I got a message saying because I didn't have the wii, which could be understandable even though I personally think it's BS but that's just my opinion, but Wizzy just told me on Facebook that a lot of ppl get into the PMBR without wiis and they are just being biased. So all the info I learned over the past hour, if what toph/wizzy said is true, is pretty crappy.

As member of the PMBR

and sigh to 100% of this

 

[Archangel]

I don't think it's a matter of sheik getting amazingly worse. She's only slightly worse than she is in melee. Maybe 90% of her former self. That's still pretty amazing all things considered. The problem is that everyone else that was in melee and now in this game is at least 50% better. Some are 200-300% better(Bowser I'm looking at you). This creates an illusion that can make sheik seem unbelievably bad but..PAL Sheik players will be quick to point out that she doesn't need a guaranteed dthrow setup to be good. Still, given how much better the buffed/new characters are in this game I can't see Sheik in the same light in this game. I feel the crap I was given for not putting her in top 5 was unwarranted.

 

[DMG]

It may have been crazier for you to put Sheik in like, 9th-10th or whichever placement, than it was to have Mario as number 2

 

[Strong Badam]

btw i was talking to Toph just now on Facebook, and apparently Silent wolf was in the pmbr, and he quit because they didn't listen to him when he said wolf is OP and the changes to make were ignored. He mains wolf and was trying to get his own character nerfed apparantly cuz he thought some things were too good, but they didn't listen at all, and he wins every tourney on WC there with him.[ I sent a request to be in the PMBR and I got declined, and I got a message saying because I didn't have the wii, which could be understandable even though I personally think it's BS but that's just my opinion, but Wizzy just told me on Facebook that a lot of ppl get into the PMBR without wiis and they are just being biased. So all the info I learned over the past hour, if what toph/wizzy said is true, is pretty crappy.

so i dont even understand what this even has to do with tier lists or anything, but here:

all of this is false information. the only thing SW suggested was fixing a bug in wolf's downb coding which allowed him to shine during an initial dash (instead of requiring a frame perfect shine after jump), which was fixed in the version immediately following the suggestion. whatever SW's reasons for becoming completely inactive for 6+ months at a time were, it wasn't due to anything like that.

i don't know what wizzrobe's sources are, but literally every single PMBR member personally owns a wii, and we declined armada for similar reasons.

 

[DMG]

#PMBRconspiracy