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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
RPGsFTW
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 754
I can kinda agree with DMG that Wario has an awkward fanbase. There are some people out there who honestly believe that he is a joke character and think that he should be removed from Smash 4. Are you kidding me? Those people haven't got a clue.
Also, other people are so familiar with the top, boring Melee characters that they are unwilling to try Wario, even if he is straight forward. To them, he is just a short, fat, stubby, joke of a character, and, very commonly too, they have no idea how to fight Wario.
Also, other people are so familiar with the top, boring Melee characters that they are unwilling to try Wario, even if he is straight forward. To them, he is just a short, fat, stubby, joke of a character, and, very commonly too, they have no idea how to fight Wario.
NO, he has an awesome fanbase. His player base size though imo isn't why his metagame seems further along than people like Lucas or Wolf. You're comparing one character that honestly is pretty straight forward, to characters that require some of the most finesse in the game. It's not hard to imagine people doing more with Wario, when it's hard to perfectly end every Wolf combo with Side B or perfectly xyz with Lucas.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
I basically try to play characters that come the closest to SoTN Alukard (or a Cougar), and Wario is the farthest away from that.
DMG, your post makes sense now yay. Of course that's the case, though I'll stand by my half-joke as I'm sure some people in the PMBR actually 'do' know what's up, regarding my points, otherwise this game would be ****. lol
RPGs, now I don't know where yours came from. wtf internetz
RPGs, now I don't know where yours came from. wtf internetz
Archangel
Smash Hero
whoa, back up a few feet....wtf are you talking about bro? the Majority of Melee>PM players have picked up/main buffed previously bad characters or Brawl newcomers. As for fat, stubby, joke characters that most don't know how to fight. Did you forget about...jigglypuff...? Anyways you should stop speaking about entire communities in a general sense especially if the generalizations are off.
on a Personal note I like wario, he makes me laugh even if the person using him isn't very fun to play against. In a game where being floaty and difficult to combo is scoffed at Wario can sometimes end up picked last for dodgeball but....as I stated above smash, specifically melee's style of smash has already seen this before. Personally I would rather play 1000 wario's in a row before fighting a puff.
top tier:
The Smash Bros documentary
garbage tier:
everything else
roy tier:
ph1r3
The Smash Bros documentary
garbage tier:
everything else
roy tier:
ph1r3
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 390
Quick question with regards to tier placement in Project M, seeing as this is the first smash game where nerfing and buffing is a possiblity, what exactly is the PM team striving for? Will there actually be buffs for lower tier characters if they turn out to be completely incapable of reaching tournament viability or are they going for a more melee-esque type of deal where some characters will simply not be viable and others are?
Sorry if this has been elaborated on before, I was unable to find it if that is the case.
Sorry if this has been elaborated on before, I was unable to find it if that is the case.
They don't intend to be a 1-1 melee clone, and I hope this is one of the things they don't keep from melee. I think the goal is to create balance as much as possible. However, not everyone plays at a top-pro level, so they need to make sure that they don't overpower some of the less-technical characters to balance out the Foxes and Falcos and Wolfs and Shieldas and Marths for the pros.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Watching Big House 3 right now. Mario is SOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
All these Mario johns in the BH3 comments are delicious.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
I think he is getting his wishes.
remember what I said about whoever does work in BH3 is going to change some opinions
guess whose recovery's gettin' nerfed next time around
guess whose recovery's gettin' nerfed next time around
Archangel
Smash Hero
i feel alot better about my mario arguments these past few weeks. good matches though. project m is getting up there in hype.
Archangel
Smash Hero
That's not exactly the case.
Marth can beat both fox and falco on any given day but his overall game puts him at 5th were as they are 1 and 2.
I do think Mario vs Bowser is one of those style specific match-ups. kinda can go either way but...bowser is dangerous man. It's why i have him in A tier. Even though he has so many disadvantages man he's just....idk he can find a way to win and it's like..how?
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
The cables
Archangel
Smash Hero
nah man, he's just a freaking rocky balboa man. you look at him and you are like, nah, this ***** is going to lose but he just wins...somehow. it can't even be explained. he just lands a hit and characters that seem better than him just die.
for the record, i don't support a nerf of either mario or bowser.
for the record, i don't support a nerf of either mario or bowser.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMd6wAoqsJ4
Mewtwo looks even more broken than Roy does... I'm calling top 5 right now.
Mewtwo looks even more broken than Roy does... I'm calling top 5 right now.
Archangel
Smash Hero
If A and S tier characters are what qualifies as top tier characters then i think calling non top tiers is...inappropriate? Anyways, it's still too soon to center tier lists around this tournament, considering the large pm cast and pretty spread out PM scene. some of the highest level players with each characters weren't present at BH3. Still, it was very entertaining. First time i can remember coming to a stream just for PM in a long time lol.
also, I do think this tournament displayed just how well the new/buffed cast mixes it up with the assumed highest level characters the space animals. Not trying to get anything started in this thread but I don't see them as far an away the best characters in pm and i haven't for about a year. There were a handful of high placing foxes even though most who used fox also used others. Still, after what I've seen today I don't think they are at the point were they should be sonic'd.
1 more thing.....mario vs bowser in a smash game's GF's.....yeah Project M is officially the #1 smash game.
MLGF
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 1,922
Yeah, Mewtwo is probably ending up in Ubers...
S tier only for top tier
Mario and Bowser aren't at a level deserving notable nerfs, although personally it might be cool to see Bowser as a more reliable character that doesn't have to Upb so damn hard in neutral to keep up. It cuts down on style/critical thinking choices when you're forced to rely on that as an answer. Not taking away from Kirk either, but the point is that moves like that don't usually allow the nuances and depth of the player's skill shine through. Same thing with Snake's Upb.
Mario and Bowser aren't at a level deserving notable nerfs, although personally it might be cool to see Bowser as a more reliable character that doesn't have to Upb so damn hard in neutral to keep up. It cuts down on style/critical thinking choices when you're forced to rely on that as an answer. Not taking away from Kirk either, but the point is that moves like that don't usually allow the nuances and depth of the player's skill shine through. Same thing with Snake's Upb.
Archangel
Smash Hero
ah, well it's just that top tier was extended from S into some of the A tier characters in melee so it kinda confused me.
Even still, at least 1 of them (Mario) already is an S tier character. perhaps i went overboard putting him at 2nd....but maybe not? I didn't see falco's ass anywhere!
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
I'd be really surprised if Mario's recovery got nerfed.
I don't see Mario as an S-tier character either, but he's definitely A-tier. He has an excellent toolkit, and can kill reliably (D-throw -> Doc Punch t00 g00d). However he still has a hard time approaching characters with good spacing. Right now it seems he doesn't have any bad match-ups, but I think that's more because he's been under everyone's radar for so long. Which is surprising considering all the hype he got from H-Box vs Wizzrobe. Once people start taking him more seriously, we'll start to see some development against him.
I don't see Mario as an S-tier character either, but he's definitely A-tier. He has an excellent toolkit, and can kill reliably (D-throw -> Doc Punch t00 g00d). However he still has a hard time approaching characters with good spacing. Right now it seems he doesn't have any bad match-ups, but I think that's more because he's been under everyone's radar for so long. Which is surprising considering all the hype he got from H-Box vs Wizzrobe. Once people start taking him more seriously, we'll start to see some development against him.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
I'm guessing they kept his crazy low weight. A character with that many combo options can only be a glass cannon without being broken.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Mario was good before H-box vs wizzrobe happened. he was good in 2.0/2.1 alot of the first PM and I currently don't see terrible MU's for him either. it's possible that we'll see development against him in the future. however, development goes on forever in terms of MU's. It's possible that once people adapt to Mario he can in tern re-adapt and put things right back. I don't think he's broken though or even very good in the same way that fox/Falco have been for years. Still, having no bad MU's has to count for something imo.
@Mewtwo discussion - I welcome the addition of hyper combo characters. Roy and Mewtwo seem to be agressor's like Metaknight and I think it's a good thing because it rebalances the cast.
So far in PM's history characters that are aggressive, combo oriented, destructive types have been slightly or massively nerfed. on the other hand more defensive or (lame) characters have been untouched or improved. Therefore, these new additions are great imo, especially if they are as good as they look.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
I still feel like he has a hard time against characters with a superior projectile. Pit and Falco come to mind as characters that force him to approach, which we know is not Mario's strength.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
lucas
wolf
luigi
pikachu
squirtle
wario
characters that are more RD oriented that have never been nerfed
Projectiles? No. Characters with much better positioning or range advantages on him give him trouble. You still have the ability to cape or try to PS/Shield troublesome projectiles, so that's not really his issue. It's stuff like dealing with Marth or Ike's huge range, trying to corner Sheik or Fox, etc
D
Deleted member
Guest
i still think mario is top tier. haven't changed this opinion in the last 6 months.
I like how Mewtwo has Lucario's Extreme Speed with an Aura Sphere Charge... at all times!
Good stuff, giving one of the things that makes Lucario WITH ASC good enough to make up for him WITHOUT it, to a character who will ALWAYS have it but can go in any direction.
Lucario may need help.
Give him Double-Team so his combos be all like UMvC3 Morrigan Astral so there's 2 of him going nuts on the stage and can always connect hits on EVERYTHING!
jkz, of course, but yeah, Mewtwo is cool. Pokemon know what's up.
I have more trouble with Ganon than I do projectile characters as Mario...
Getting passed walls of crap that he can't puncture through... sucks. (Marth cough) Even IF the reward for getting in is more, it's just not something that his options-for-everything will overcome, since big walls of speed/hit-box nullify 'most' options in general. Sheik syndrome there... again.
Good stuff, giving one of the things that makes Lucario WITH ASC good enough to make up for him WITHOUT it, to a character who will ALWAYS have it but can go in any direction.
Lucario may need help.
Give him Double-Team so his combos be all like UMvC3 Morrigan Astral so there's 2 of him going nuts on the stage and can always connect hits on EVERYTHING!
jkz, of course, but yeah, Mewtwo is cool. Pokemon know what's up.
I have more trouble with Ganon than I do projectile characters as Mario...
Getting passed walls of crap that he can't puncture through... sucks. (Marth cough) Even IF the reward for getting in is more, it's just not something that his options-for-everything will overcome, since big walls of speed/hit-box nullify 'most' options in general. Sheik syndrome there... again.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
SO METROID HOW BOUT THAT GARBAGE MARIO WITH NO TOURNEY RESULTS
#shotsfired
#shotsfired
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
edit: oops double post
BH3 only reinforces this lol.
NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
Mario always had this stuff, lets just not have the knee jerk reaction of nerfing him though.
He has those stubby limbs so his range isn't that great. Not that hard to edgegaurd him either.
He has those stubby limbs so his range isn't that great. Not that hard to edgegaurd him either.
Friesnchip
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/user/VideoGameBootCamp/videos
Bam. They were actually uploaded alongside the live matches, which was pretty considerate of VGBC.