Tier List Speculation

[Archangel]

Leffen NEVER took a set of me in PM. Not even at my first tournament with a few hours experience compared to when he had played the game way more.
So Im not sure what you get second set from since I have never been in a second set of GF since I have never dropped a set in PM

My mistake, I joined in on the Live stream and was informed that it was 2nd set 4th game. Turns out it was actually the 2nd set the 2 of you played that day.

 

[Professor Pro]

people always talk about Lucario but no one ever talks about Eggz's lucario

Matches???

 

[SpiderMad]

Matches???

Lighter

 

[mudkyp]

Why does Ness' PK fire activate on shield?

 

[DMG]

Because that's a buff from Melee. PK fire was close to worthless because people could shield it, then dash forward and punish or hugely pressure Ness.

Although I would be all in favor of Aerial PK Fire being less advantageous on shield or on hit.

 

[KayB]

Because that's a buff from Melee. PK fire was close to worthless because people could shield it, then dash forward and punish or hugely pressure Ness.

Which is just swell, cause every time I shield PK Fire, Ness gets a free punish.

 

[DMG]

People need to running spotdodge it more, it's really good. Or running roll through it.

 

[Bryonato]

C'mon guys, let us have this. Haven't we ness mains suffered enough?

 

[Archangel]

I personally think cutting the start up down would be better. Especially for the aerial version.

 

[Archangel]

this thread doesn't have enough serious speculative tier lists..

 

[metroid1117]

I think it's because generally, people (myself included) lack enough match-up experience and/or character knowledge to comfortably create a tier list.

 

[Nausicaa]

Also, I think Squirtle will turn out to be a lot better than most people think. Two really unique and unprecedented characteristics: extremely fast, jolty ground movement that is difficult to react to, and ability to change momentum midair with a move that instantly sets up a combo/techchase at just about any % and is difficult to punish.

He was near broken (as in unhealthy to the game) in 2.5 due to WD>F-Tilt alone. With the campy (as everyone knows, he's obnoxious to catch and hit if he doesn't want to be hit) nature, WD>F-Tilt with an extremely linear utility that could be abused to no end (literally for everything), and it was nerfed.
But it's better this way...

We all know DDD and Luigi are at least S++ tier. I just wanna know if one of them is S+++ or even S++++.

Also, Plum. We gotta play some time. I'll have to send you my build or vice versa.

You just named the worst character in the game (S++Tier) and the best (S++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Tier)...
How do people even compare these 2? One is reliant on gimps and can't move, the other has the fastest and most controlled mobility in the game and touch-of-deaths any character off any hit.

He's a pretty cheezy character.

Less cheese than 2.5, and still probably the cheesiest.







EDIT:

4. His 3 main ways of approaching outside of wavedashing (shell shift, moonwalk, side-B) are all lackluster or unreliable since they can lose to a lot of things.

If this is how people are approaching, this is why people think Squirtle sucks.

Seriously, everyone should go play a match with Lucas, using F-Tilt and Grab ONLY. Those 2 moves alone, and once you've learned how to play Smash with those 2 moves ALONE, to their epitome, THEN play normal smash.
This would make everyone much better at the neutral game. Not getting hit; reading, capitalizing, and responding to opportunities; technical maneuvers from WDOOS to Pivots; the works.

 

[jayeldeee]

So what happened to a monthly tier list speculation?

I think it's because generally, people (myself included) lack enough match-up experience and/or character knowledge to comfortably create a tier list.

Well, maybe SSS might allow PM to enter the tourney phase. Either that or someone get me an Avermedia for Macbooks and we'll set up tourneys for November and December.

 

[Nausicaa]

I'm totally gonna put one together now.
Because it won't make any sense.
Sweet.

 

[DMG]

Tier





















List


There's my tier list

 

[DMG]

Edit: Lag Double Post, delete one

 

[Plum]

Seriously?

You're putting List below Tier?
0/10.

 

[DMG]

Tier is clearly better than List. Maybe your friends just suck with Tier?

 

[Deleted member]

Tier List. TL. Toon Link.
I win

 

[jayeldeee]

I'd actually tend to agree with Boss on this one, he made this statement in regards to Brawl Luigi, but I think it applies to Melee and P:M as well, these aren't his exact words, but basically Luigi's horrible traction is actually more of an advantage than a disadvantage, perhaps even more so in Melee in P:M because it's the reason he has the best wavedash in the game, and even if you slide offstage, it's not like it's hard to get back on, especially because cyclone, nair, bair, fireballs and fair can shut down a lot of edgeguard attempts, plus his slide makes for an interesting defensive game because he can do retreating jabs, grabs, tilts, and smashes.

Oops, I completely forgot to reply to this one from a couple of weeks ago. I understand that the traction can be used for the techniques he has. However, it absolutely sucks when I get hit, am knocked down on my stomach, and then I just slide off the stage. By time I can actually do something to help me get up, I'm usually at either of the bottom corners of the stage and am out of luck. I've died quite a few times with him because of that.

 

[Archangel]

I think it's because generally, people (myself included) lack enough match-up experience and/or character knowledge to comfortably create a tier list.

it's not official. it's Speculative....so Speculate. If you were to make a list based on the info you have now...who would you place where...etc? I wanna know what people are thinking. Don't be afraid of the Forum judgement.

 

[Nausicaa]

Oops, I completely forgot to reply to this one from a couple of weeks ago. I understand that the traction can be used for the techniques he has. However, it absolutely sucks when I get hit, am knocked down on my stomach, and then I just slide off the stage. By time I can actually do something to help me get up, I'm usually at either of the bottom corners of the stage and am out of luck. I've died quite a few times with him because of that.

Not being ready for something? That's just your game-play then... lol
Comment kind-of for the person you quoted (deadjames): Once you grab the edge, you're home-free. WD on the stage and you can cross FD invincible. It's getting back to the stage that's tricky. He has tools, and can recover from anywhere, but that doesn't mean it's hard for opponents to get in the way (literally even lol)

it's not official. it's Speculative....so Speculate. If you were to make a list based on the info you have now...who would you place where...etc? I wanna know what people are thinking. Don't be afraid of the Forum judgement.

This.^

Not a single tier-list to this day in PM has been serious, no matter how serious someone can be about it, and everybody knows this, that's why it's a 100% fun thread that may occasionally provide some interesting help to people occasionally, occasionally.

Oh sheeeeeeet
I thought this was the casual social thread the whole time!

It's a tier list THREATENING speculator! Watch your charts!

 

[trash?]

So what happened to a monthly tier list speculation?

waiting for apex, one for pre-apex + one for post-apex. if you want to make your own to work with, go nuts makin' a survey in google docs is easy as heck

 

[DMG]

I've posted serious tier lists before in dis thred.

Canon: I would get it running again. It was interesting to see the random guy who put 2.5 Pikachu over Sonic.

 

[SpiderMad]

Here's just my current top

Fox, Ivy, Shielda, Bowser
Falco/Peach/Wolf, MK/DK/Wario, (+/-)Charizard

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Mind explaining why you put bowser really high?

 

[KayB]

The Eli Tier List
Top tier:
Fox

Garbage Tier:
Everyone else.

 

[DMG]

Eli Tier List
Top Tier:
Fox

Garbage Tier:
Everyone Else

 

[Deleted member]

Eli Tier List
Top Tier:
Fox

Garbage Tier:
Everyone Else

 

[Plum]

ty based eli

 

[DMG]

Based Faux

Man we're getting so off track let's talk about tier list stuff

BOWSER #4? ARE U BR BR HUEHUE MORDE?

 

[Vashimus]

Based Fokkusu Makuraudo

 

[SpiderMad]

Mind explaining why you put bowser really high?

Until people realize Light press air dodge is amazing, use Component cables to view the game in great definition to perfect every movement, and allow a buffer of 1 frame to make more viable 1 frame strict SH double aerial/wavelands; Bowser will and has defeat them. The community is basically playing a slightly less sloppy version of Wifi with shotty CRTs using composite cables (which may be split using splitters by the uneducated recorder which further reduces the quality instead of using this to record S-video while playing in unreduced composite or vice versa http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Composite-Yellow-S-Video-Stereo/dp/B003L16ZBI/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1380764033&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=s video wii) , with hard to press air dodge and no assistance in performing early aerials making certain techniques that are 1 frame not worth their weight in attempting.

 

[DMG]

Bowser is 4th... because of TV's and cables?

 

[ELI-mination]

The Eli Tier List
Top tier:
Fox

Garbage Tier:
Everyone else.

Dammit you beat me to it

 

[KayB]

Until people realize Light press air dodge is amazing, use Component cables to view the game in great definition to perfect every movement, and allow a buffer of 1 frame to make more viable 1 frame strict SH double aerial/wavelands; Bowser will and has defeat them. The community is basically playing a slightly less sloppy version of Wifi with shotty CRTs using composite cables (which may be split using splitters by the uneducated recorder which further reduces the quality instead of using this to record S-video while playing in unreduced composite or vice versa http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Composite-Yellow-S-Video-Stereo/dp/B003L16ZBI/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1380764033&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=s video wii) , with hard to press air dodge and no assistance in performing early aerials making certain techniques that are 1 frame not worth their weight in attempting.

Brawl lags on HDTVs, right?

 

[Plum]

 

[SpiderMad]

Bowser is 4th... because of TV's and cables?

Ike would be higher if C-stick set to Attack to perform Nair with it by pressing a diagonal (which then allows better momentum control and easier platform drops like that of other C-stick aerials) didn't have any of the side-effects and issues along with it (it messes with performing CC D-smash and other annoying things)

Brawl lags on HDTVs, right?

I just meant CRTs that are shotty as in cheap, beat-up and old: giving bad quality/image/lag issues.

 

[KayB]

I just meant CRTs that are shotty as in beat-up and old, giving bad quality/image/lag issues.

I'm just asking as a general question.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I just meant CRTs that are shotty as in beat-up and old, giving bad quality/image/lag issues.

I've never had lag issues on a CRT. But that's besides the point; I'm still confused about how bad image quality gives Bowser the advantage.