Tier List Discussion as Apex's interesting top 8 is over

[Kahnu]

Why are people placing Link so high? Any character can edgeguard him and he'll be out quick as ****.

 

[BananaBolts]

Why are people placing Link Falcon and Fox so high? Any character can edgeguard him them and he'll they'll be out quick as ****.

Now re-read your newly edited post. Falcon and Fox also get edgeguarded hard... but they have great neutral games and combos
Link also has a good neutral and his combos/techchases are acceptable

 

[Kahnu]

Now re-read your newly edited post. Falcon and Fox also get edgeguarded hard... but they have great neutral games and combos
Link also has a good neutral and his combos/techchases are acceptable

lol dont act like Links recovery is like Falcons or Fox's recovery

YOU KNOW it ****ing sucks and you cant get past that

 

[BananaBolts]

What? Falcon can't recover either and he gets edgeguarded nearly the exact same way. Link's recovery is definitely worse than Falcon's but I don't think that it automatically makes him(Link) trash tier. Like I said, Link has a great neutral game which certainly means a lot with the way that Smash 64 plays out. ( <--something that Luigi lacks). He also has acceptable combos. (<--- something that Samus lacks)

I could see him over DK and Ness too. DK has nearly an equally bad recovery because he has hardly any vertical mobility and avoiding his invincible fists isn't that difficult. Ness also suffers from gimps but not as bad as Link. Ness has the potential to be better than Link but Ness doesn't have as good of a neutral as Link does.

 

[Sedda]

lol dont act like Links recovery is like Falcons or Fox's recovery

YOU KNOW it ****ing sucks and you cant get past that

it's like youve missed the last 3 or so months of people saying why link is better. check this thread and also the character discussion section.

 

[Kahnu]

What? Falcon can't recover either and he gets edgeguarded nearly the exact same way. Link's recovery is definitely worse than Falcon's but I don't think that it automatically makes him(Link) trash tier. Like I said, Link has a great neutral game which certainly means a lot with the way that Smash 64 plays out. ( <--something that Luigi lacks). He also has acceptable combos. (<--- something that Samus lacks)

I could see him over DK and Ness too. DK has nearly an equally bad recovery because he has hardly any vertical mobility and avoiding his invincible fists isn't that difficult. Ness also suffers from gimps but not as bad as Link. Ness has the potential to be better than Link but Ness doesn't have as good of a neutral as Link does.

Do you not understand that having such a bad recovery is a HUGE weakness?

If he's just thrown off stage he can almost NEVER make it off.

It's not even gimps either, he can barely make it ON the stage WITHOUT being gimped.

 

[BananaBolts]

but he has such a great neutral that he can avoid grabs fairly well whereas Falcon, for example, always has to be close to the opponent or he has to be going for his own grabs.

to quote Sedda,

it's like youve missed the last 3 or so months of people saying why link is better. check this thread and also the character discussion section.

 

[Kahnu]

but he has such a great neutral that he can avoid grabs fairly well whereas Falcon, for example, always has to be close to the opponent or he has to be going for his own grabs.

to quote Sedda,

''avoid grabs fairly well whereas Falcon, for example, always has to be close to the opponent or he has to be going for his own grabs.''

''avoid grabs fairly well whereas Falcon''

''whereas Falcon, for example, always has to be close to the opponent or he has to be going for his own grabs.''
are you saying that falcon has to be close to the opponent to avoids grabs?
srry if i dont know what you mean


But don't think that Links grab > Falcons grab, (if thats what you meant)

 

[BananaBolts]

Falcon is more susceptible to getting grabbed because his neutral game requires him to approach with his own grab or with an aerial. Link has a great projectile game which really helps him to escape grabs. Sure, Link suffers more than Falcon in recovery but Falcon gets grabbed more often, in theory at least. Most characters love comboing Falcon so grabbing him isn't too common but it really only takes a back throw offstage and a sex kick to gimp Falcon.

 

[Kahnu]

But its not just getting grabbed, being flung off map in any manner will make it almost impossible for Link to recover...

Look, lets just agree on the top first.

Thoughts?

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Good, every one put luigi on the bottom so when I whoop ur A** I can say "Wow, you really lost to this green plumber??" Lol can't wait

 

[Kahnu]

Good, every one put luigi on the bottom so when I whoop ur A** I can say "Wow, you really lost to this green plumber??" Lol can't wait

Everyone will bow down and see that Luigi > Pikachu soon

 

[Combo Blaze]

kahnu y r u trying to talk about tiers and match ups when ur not even gud

link is pretty gud

 

[Beesy]

Why are people placing Link so high? Any character can edgeguard him and he'll be out quick as ****.

We didn't specify the stage our list is referencing.

 

[lord narwhal]

Giving Fox tier 5 is just laughable. Giving Mario anything worse than tier 6 is also pretty dumb. Those are my thoughts.

 

[Kimimaru]

I believe Mario is overall better than Jigglypuff and Fox is just above Yoshi. I also think Link is placed a little too high and DK is too low.

 

[SheerMadness]

Link should be dead last on everyone's list. He sees 0 play in our current dreamland centric format.

Not viable at all on dreamland.

 

[Morin0]

Link has the best moveset in this entire game. Projectiles, all his moves have good hitboxes, and a tether grab? Too bad about that recovery, though.

 

[Capos]

Link has the best moveset in this entire game. Projectiles, all his moves have good hitboxes, and a tether grab? Too bad about that recovery, though.

Are you saying his grab is good?

 

[Kahnu]

kahnu y r u trying to talk about tiers and match ups when ur not even gud

link is pretty gud

wanna get rekt *** bo?

 

[asianaussie]

link is ****ing sick and america just hates playing fun characters

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

bumping this so that we can actually come up with a tier list before this thread is buried forever. there was some discussion going on here and many people got to share their perspective on certain matchups that will affect the order of the characters most.

maybe @ KoRoBeNiKi could start a new thread, or just rename this so that people know that any new posts should only include the order of the characters that they think is right and we'll finally have a new tier list maybe by the end of april (?)

Going to go to go do so.

Will then compile all answers on an excel document.

 

[Saltsizzle]

Going to go to go do so.

lolwut.

===========

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

lolwut.

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Laggy work computer, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee grammar/spelling problems

 

[Olikus]

link ****ing sucks.

 

[Shears]

I really hate this tier list discussion. This game doesn't have tiers like melee or brawl. Maybe its not perfectly balanced but its pretty close. I think discussion should be less tier list and more complexity vs difficult to operation charts. If we have to talk tiers, which I don't agree with, there are then two tiers: tournament viable and not tournament viable. This game is nearly a 12 way rock paper scissors. Go make a tier list for rock paper scissors while you're at it.

scissors is bottom tier btw.

 

[lord narwhal]

I really hate this tier list discussion. This game doesn't have tiers like melee or brawl. Maybe its not perfectly balanced but its pretty close. I think discussion should be less tier list and more complexity vs difficult to operation charts. If we have to talk tiers, which I don't agree with, there are then two tiers: tournament viable and not tournament viable. This game is nearly a 12 way rock paper scissors. Go make a tier list for rock paper scissors while you're at it.

scissors is bottom tier btw.

pikachu main talkin bout tiers not existing

 

[Shears]

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

get mad

captain falcon main talkin bout falcon not being higher tier

 

[lord narwhal]

captain falcon main talkin bout falcon not being higher tier

yeah man tier 5 instead of 4 when falcon has been losing in all the majors lately and the other 4 have been performing well wow so biased

 

[Shears]

yeah man tier 5 instead of 4 when falcon has been losing in all the majors lately and the other 4 have been performing well wow so biased

Falcon mains confirmed the new samus mains.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

what do you mena samus mains, i thought all of them died in the Cobra Revolution

 

[Shears]

what do you mena samus mains, i thought all of them died in the Cobra Revolution

Exactly so we have no one to be salty and whiny about their main, enter falcon mains.

 

[Kahnu]

Exactly so we have no one to be salty and whiny about their main, enter falcon mains.

the irony is that you main by far the best character in the game

 

[lord narwhal]

Exactly so we have no one to be salty and whiny about their main, enter falcon mains.

so, to you, citing statistics about a character's performance in major tournaments as the basis behind ranking it a certain way is being salty and whiny? shut your stupid privileged pikachu mouth

 

[Shears]

the irony is that you main by far the best character in the game

I think thats overrated. Theres a lot to pika that is overrated because people just need a scapegoat and something to complain about. Everyone read a tier list in 2007 that said pika was untouchable and broken and so they ignorantly believed it to the bottom of their heart. Is pika the best character in the game? Probably. Is he unquestionably broken and no other character can compete at all and by picking pika you can immediately compete 3 tiers above your skill level because the character is cheap? No.

so, to you, citing statistics about a character's performance in major tournaments as the basis behind ranking it a certain way is being salty and whiny? shut your stupid privileged pikachu mouth

Falcon combos on pika are some of the easiest things I've ever done in smash. Even easier than 5 kirby utilts in a row. Falcon=free combos and free stocks. Shut your stupid privileged captain falcon mouth

 

[lord narwhal]

Falcon combos on pika are some of the easiest things I've ever done in smash. Even easier than 5 kirby utilts in a row. Falcon=free combos and free stocks. Shut your stupid privileged captain falcon mouth

right i forgot that a character's rank is determined by how easy to operation they are.

and besides, last I checked your pika is bthrow > fsmash edgeguard on falcon every single stock. how hard is that again? and how easily does it kill falcon? stick to pretending like you know anything about a game you suck at, it works really well.

 

[Shears]

right i forgot that a character's rank is determined by how easy to operation they are.

and besides, last I checked your pika is bthrow > fsmash edgeguard on falcon every single stock. how hard is that again? and how easily does it kill falcon? stick to pretending like you know anything about a game you suck at, it works really well.

I don't do bthrow to fsmash because it doesn't work that well. Learn ledge DI and you'll know that. Stick to pretending like you know anything about a game you suck at, it works really well.

 

[lord narwhal]

LOL bthrow fsmash doesnt work huh? so when I DI against the ledge and you do it again, what then? DI again? until pika's disjointed af fsmash hitbox extends so far that I can't even get to the edge and I die. you honestly think pika's fsmash doesn't kill falcon? I have to wonder if you even play this game.

 

[Shears]

If you ledge DI the fsmash you can upb again and grab pika before he gets a second fsmash. If you reverse ledge DI you actually kill pika. If you grab the ledge you can get up and kill pika.

and besides, last I checked your falcon is fthrow > fair > uair > upb on pika every single stock. how hard is that again? and how easily does it kill pika?


Btw, I entered this tier list discussion saying that I thought charts were a better measure of characters than a tier list (which I don't see any arguments against) and you decided to attack and ***** about pika and falcon and become hostile. Grow the **** up and stop being a whiny ****** falcon main.

"I'm entitled to be a ****** whiny falcon main because pika bthrow > fsmash" - @ lord narwhal circa 2015

 

[lord narwhal]

If you ledge DI the fsmash you can upb again and grab pika before he gets a second fsmash. If you reverse ledge DI you actually kill pika. If you grab the ledge you can get up and kill pika.

and besides, last I checked your falcon is fthrow > fair > uair > upb on pika every single stock. how hard is that again? and how easily does it kill pika?

#1 that only works if falcon is ~0%.
#2 falcon reverse ledge DI? yeah okay
#3 you apparently have never seen my falcon