Tier list alternative - Rate the characters! (experienced players only)

[Superstar]

They're both easy to gimp. I was just mentioning Fox's.

Startup lets me prepare though. So, its kindof like Ness, except easier to aim, shorter, less damaging, but he falls faster so its ok.

 

[Superstar]

Bump Bump Bump BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP

I've been playing more, indeed, and I want to revise my updated list. XD

OLD:

Pikachu - 10
Kirby - 9
Fox - 8.5
Captain Falcon - 8 [swap with Kirby?]
Ness - 7
Mario - 6
Jiggs - 5
Luigi - 4
Yoshi - 3
DK - 2.5
Link - 1
Samus - 0

NEW:
Pikachu - 10
Kirby - 9
Fox - 8
Falcon - 7.75
Ness - 7
Mario - 6
Yoshi - 5.5
Jigglypuff - 5.25
Luigi - 3.5
DK - 2.5
Link - 0.5
Samus - 0

Yoshi is close to Mario [but methinks he's worse], I had to put a lot of thought towards Yoshi/Jiggs, Yoshi came out being better by a bit, but just to be confused they have to be pretty close. Same with Fox/Falcon, I played against more Falcons and am picking him up, so I see he's pretty good. Only reason I put Fox above is because "apparently", Falcon has a bit more trouble against lightweights, and since tier lists are OVERALL, I had to put Fox above him, but they are dead close.

If I had to rank them by tiers of power [picking stuff close to each other, I'd rank them]:

Top:
Pika
Kirby

High:
Fox
Falcon
Ness

Mid:
Mario
Yoshi
Jiggs

Low:
Luigi
DK

Bottom:
Samus
Link

Ness feels close to Falcon/Fox than Mario, even though Ness is worse than them.

 

[NixxxoN]

After a long time using Ness and now using Mario i've thought
Mario > Ness (due to the recovery)

 

[Superstar]

However, Ness is better at comboing.

Mario cannot combo well until he hits higher percents. At around 40% he can begin to combo opponents, 30% to a small portion of characters, 50% for Fox/Falcon. Mario is just good because of his approach [via fireballs], and awesome edgeguard/recover, which more than makes up for that flaw.

Ness has a hell of a spike, a good distance recovery which gives him more use out of it than Falcon's [that +DJC makes it easier to land]. He can go farther than Falcon and do it, I said good distance not good. His utilt seems to have this broken hitbox, and seems to hit slightly in front, can juggle, and a DJC bair is mad powerful stuff after a utilt. He can combo at lower percents than Mario, and pretty much ends where Mario can. And he's really good at tech chasing and has better throws than Mario.

I main Ness and Mario now. Ness seems to do better for more matches than say Mario, but my Ness is better than my Mario, so meh. I know I get freaked out if I have to use Mario against Kirby, but I feel fine with Ness [specific example doesn't affect the listing, I know].

 

[NixxxoN]

Ness is better at comboing but Marios not bad either, and Mario is much harder to do combos with, and has fireballs, and most important a much, much better recovery.
All you have to do is hit ness once and throw him out... if you don't suck at edgeguarding, then hes dead.
Ness has always been overrated due to the typical tier list.

 

[Superstar]

He has been overrated, indeed. But he's still better than Mario.

Ness is leagues ahead of Mario in comboing. Mario is much harder to do combos with is not a valid point unless you want to say I suck, and even then Ness is much more techinical than Mario so if it's like that then it's bad. The main thing Mario has over Ness in comboing is the usmash finisher [which is really sexy, I mean it].

All you have to do is hit ness once and throw him out... if you don't suck at edgeguarding, then hes dead.

Depends on where you hit him. Once he's off he's dead [I know Sheer got me every time I was off the ledge], but many other characters ALSO die once they are off the ledge, so it's not really a valid point. By your logic, Fox and Falcon are also worse than Mario. They're harder to edgeguard, true, but once you're good enough, even Mario isn't too difficult [tier lists are a measurement of top level play, so it does matter].

EDIT: To be pedanctic, in higher level play, NESS has better recovery than Fox and Falcon simply because he can edgeguard farther than they can. They are all going to die regardless.

 

[Skrlx]

WHAT.

weegee in 10th? AND puffz in 8th place?

THIS IS MADNESS...

luigi and jiggly both have a better matchup against yoshi!

 

[Superstar]

Actually, about weegee....I just put him wherever. XD Better than my first list where I put half the cast randomly.

Wait, I put Weegee in 9th, not 10th. 10th is bad.

Yoshi seems better to me than Jiggly. Better range...better range. Ah yes, DJC to escape fake combos [which happens sometimes, although shouldn't happen at top matches], a spike, better approach, a spike AND a drill [albeit meh], and the egg of delicious doom. Jiggs has utilt and Rest though, along with better throws. Dayum those are sexy. Also, better recovery.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

fox's recovery is better than Ness's, due to reasons already stated

falcon's recovery = Ness's, both of them are horrible, both are easily intercepted

Ness has good combos but every single Ness approaches the exact same way, Mario's fireball helps vs virtually every single character and is probably the second best projectile after fox's laser. Also, Mario's up smash is one of the best killing moves in the entire game and can be comboed into
Lets see the differences
Ness
no tap a into grab
Better spike
worse recovery
Worse approach
Ness has barely any combo after a certain percentage due to his weak approach
Better combos at lower percentages
DJC
Better shield breaker combos due to DJC

Mario
Tap a into grab vs shields
Down air helps just as much as Ness's spike vs recoveries but is easier to use
Fireball > many recoveries
Better projectile
Good recovery
Better approach, due to fireballs
Better Upwards kos due to his up smash.
Better killing combos at higher percentage

 

[Superstar]

Your list was ok all the way up yo:

Down air helps just as much as Ness's spike vs recoveries but is easier to use

No, just no. In recovering, actually, first of all, Ness' is easier to use [or at least, viable in more situations]. Mario's Dair helps in edgeguarding, but they can attempt to recover again, which makes it an inferior option. Mario can still edgeguard better than Ness off the edge, but dair? Nah, just nah.

Also, Ness seems to have more priority on some moves than Mario [like bair]. But I have no data on that.

Some stuffs you forgots

Ness:
Better throws

Mario:
Overall better edgeguard
Worse throws
Can't combo well at low percents

Ness now does seem to closer to Mario than Fox/Falcon, but, I still hold, Ness > Mario. I know you put that Ness can combo well at lower percents, but since to fill Ness' points with worse stuff you put the opposites of some stuff Mario had, I decided to put an opposite of what Ness had. XD

And indeed, usmash finisher combos are hot sex.

 

[Daedatheus]

Ness
no tap a into grab

I always thought Pika and Ness had the ability to directly transfer from jab to grab

 

[Surri-Sama]

What happened to Ness' priority O_o

Bias comparison is Bias

 

[Superstar]

That is precisely why I prefer fighting Korby with Ness than Mario.

Ness's priority makes Korby's broken hitboxes of doom less painful. Even if Korby's hitboxes still are pretty crazy.

 

[Tigerb0mbz]

ness is garbage...mario is l33t! NUFF SAID

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

no one thinks of his recovery wtf

 

[Superstar]

On the contrary, everyone thinks of Mario's recovery.

Or do you mean Ness? Indeed, Ness' recovery sucks hard. Once Ness is off, WHEEEEEEE. Same goes for other chars though, cept some. But, everyone is mentioning Ness' recovery. Heck, that was Nixxon's sole point for Mario > Ness.

Boom what the chocolate fudge you talking about?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ness' super bad recovery

 

[marthmaster04]

this thread is dumb

 

[Surri-Sama]

no one thinks of his recovery wtf

you said that backwards

all people want to look at is Ness' recovery....


Marth's right, im not even gona bother with this place =.= have fun ^^

 

[Frown]

Well, Pika's and the puffballs' recoveries are really the only ones that are hard to gimp.

 

[Superstar]

^^ And Mario. Seriously, and Mario.

Yeah, what Surri said, was what I said. All people want to look at is Ness' bad recovery. -_-

The humorous thing about these arguments is, if I were to debate that Ness = Fox/Falcon, I'd actually have a better argument than Ness > Mario. Which, of course, you don't need eyes to know Fox/Falcon > Ness. -_- Which is why these kinds of debates never work...

 

[Frown]

^^ And Mario. Seriously, and Mario.

Well... no.

He lacks horizontal recovery.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Well... no.

He lacks horizontal recovery.

Read the title of this thread

Play some smash64

Dont look back at Brawl

 

[Superstar]

Lacks horizontal recovery my ***.

Rising Tornado->double jump->UpB. Fireballs make the guy hard to edgeguard, and he has good range.

He has one of the best recoveries in the game. Luigi gets more distance, but dood's fireballs don't help stop edgeguards too well.

 

[NixxxoN]

Mario's recovery is 2nd best in the game according to a lot of people... For me is 2nd tied with Kirby's.

 

[Frown]

I'm sorry, Mario is probably the character I used the least back in SSB64. I always found Luigi more interesting.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I'm sorry, Mario is probably the character I used the least back in SSB64. I always found Luigi more interesting.

this is a perfect example of titles failing

 

[Daedatheus]

I'm sorry, Mario is probably the character I used the least back in SSB64. I always found Luigi more interesting.

What does that have to do with their placement in tiers??

 

[ExCeL 52]

Falcon is the best player in Ssb -_-

 

[Superstar]

Yeah, his Falcon Punch does 25% up close and 26% at a specific spot, making it the 3rd most damaging move after Samus' fully charged shot and Ness' PK thunder rocket [30% each]. And he sounds like he has groin cramps while doing it, so the opponent lets his guard down, and then gets punched in the face by a BIG F***ing PHOENIX! That's raw man, no denying that.

And his backthrow is the best in the game and his recovery is good. :3

[Pika > Falcon...]

 

[Tigerb0mbz]

ill **** anyone that uses ness...hes such garbage crap holy shiet no re k thx bai

 

[Superstar]

So you'll **** my Mario too? ;_;

 

[Tigerb0mbz]

nigggga ill **** ur ness, your mario, YOU! watevs dawg! JESUS cant even save u...YOU HEATHEN!

 

[Superstar]

Dude.

I'm not black.

:3

 

[Little England]

so you think black people are n!ggas?

 

[Daedatheus]

so you think black people are niggggas?

I sure as hell know white/asian/hispanic people should never be saying that term

Now I'd suggest back on topic before craiigg has to do his job here

 

[Superstar]

It's racist slang for black people. Like how some other term of which I forgot but I should really know is racist slur for Cubans.

I mean nothing offensive by that.

And indeed, it's getting too far. So to get it back, I present this.

Low percents: Ness >>> Mario
Mid percents: Mario > Ness
High Percents: Mario > Ness
Really high: Ness > Mario.

percents as opponents percent. At low percents, Ness can do many things. Mario can spam fireballs and grabs. And mid percents, Ness' combos start to wear out [still got them though till a certain point], but that's where Mario shines with uair combos, and if he plays his cards right, can finish off the opponent with a usmash. At high percents [up to maybe 120%], Ness has little options, but Mario can no longer really combo as well. Time to edgeguard, but Mario is a bit better than that [Ness has dair, but Mario has way better recovery and fairs, nairs, and fireballs. Ness has WAY better grabs though, and unlike what Koro said, can jab to grab, but it helps Mario more]. Ness' utilt, or was that dair, leads to a bair to setup and edgeguard, but little more than that. At even higher percents though, many of Ness' moves become KO moves, like uair [which has broken priority by the way]. Mario is still mostly the same, just that bthrow will likely kill.

 

[Little England]

I know you didn't mean to offend anyone. I got an infraction for that haha

 

[Tigerb0mbz]

It's racist slang for black people. Like how some other term of which I forgot but I should really know is racist slur for Cubans.

I mean nothing offensive by that.

And indeed, it's getting too far. So to get it back, I present this.

Low percents: Ness >>> Mario
Mid percents: Mario > Ness
High Percents: Mario > Ness
Really high: Ness > Mario.

percents as opponents percent. At low percents, Ness can do many things. Mario can spam fireballs and grabs. And mid percents, Ness' combos start to wear out [still got them though till a certain point], but that's where Mario shines with uair combos, and if he plays his cards right, can finish off the opponent with a usmash. At high percents [up to maybe 120%], Ness has little options, but Mario can no longer really combo as well. Time to edgeguard, but Mario is a bit better than that [Ness has dair, but Mario has way better recovery and fairs, nairs, and fireballs. Ness has WAY better grabs though, and unlike what Koro said, can jab to grab, but it helps Mario more]. Ness' utilt, or was that dair, leads to a bair to setup and edgeguard, but little more than that. At even higher percents though, many of Ness' moves become KO moves, like uair [which has broken priority by the way]. Mario is still mostly the same, just that bthrow will likely kill.

wow ur shiet is soo flawed...ness is garbage compared to mario! play me and find out the hard way! DU MA another infraction...WTF!?

 

[Surri-Sama]

wow ur shiet is soo flawed...ness is garbage compared to mario! play me and find out the hard way! DU MA another infraction...WTF!?

FFS why dont you seriously think about what you're saying

YOU are obviously a top pro player, so your Mario would seem better then 99/100 Ness' ANYWAYS

... >_>

I could say go play Isai's Link, it'd own your Mario, is link higher then Mario? ...no i dont think so