This ruleset -is wack-....lol

[Plairnkk]

tons and tons of people complain about neutral PS, i didnt just take it off for no reason. i dont even think it should be removed if random is being used, but since stage striking is being used and we need to take one off, it's the least neutral.

CABC - anyone who says they arent entering because of the rule set is full of **** and probably wasnt going to enter anyway. if that's your reasoning for not entering, well then i feel sorry for you

this is the agreed upon rule set of the SBR, not just some random arbitrary ****

ballistics what do you mean "hope?" just strike it. i feel like nobody understands stage striking or how it works

brinstar is legal as a cp for floaty characters who benefit from it to counteract cruise being exceptionally good for faster characters.

 

[AprilShaw]

tons and tons of people complain about neutral PS, i didnt just take it off for no reason. i dont even think it should be removed if random is being used, but since stage striking is being used and we need to take one off, it's the least neutral.

CABC - anyone who says they arent entering because of the rule set is full of **** and probably wasnt going to enter anyway. if that's your reasoning for not entering, well then i feel sorry for you

this is the agreed upon rule set of the SBR, not just some random arbitrary ****

ballistics what do you mean "hope?" just strike it. i feel like nobody understands stage striking or how it works

brinstar is legal as a cp for floaty characters who benefit from it to counteract cruise being exceptionally good for faster characters.

Thanks for the profanities, I'm glad they were really necessary against my extremely personal insults I made against you in my last post.

That said, you misunderstood the point. Not only do I not *like* the rule set, but I find it extremely idiotic of you to change it so long after announcing the tournament. I'd be ridiculously pissed off if I had paid the entry fee online before you changed the rules.

The reason I'm not entering is because, in my opinion, you are an incompetent TO. In fact, I haven't been fond of any of the actions you've taken involving the tournament besides hosting it.

EDIT: I also find it extremely hilarious that you decided on a rule set that is, quite obviously, biased against Fox compared to the old one and then expected Fox users not only to stomach it but to enjoy it. And then when they don't, you come here and tell them it's good for their character. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but whatever.

 

[Ballistics]

tons and tons of people complain about neutral PS, i didnt just take it off for no reason. i dont even think it should be removed if random is being used, but since stage striking is being used and we need to take one off, it's the least neutral.

CABC - anyone who says they arent entering because of the rule set is full of **** and probably wasnt going to enter anyway. if that's your reasoning for not entering, well then i feel sorry for you

this is the agreed upon rule set of the SBR, not just some random arbitrary ****

ballistics what do you mean "hope?" just strike it. i feel like nobody understands stage striking or how it works

brinstar is legal as a cp for floaty characters who benefit from it to counteract cruise being exceptionally good for faster characters.

o yea whoops forgot about striking

 

[Plairnkk]

Haha, that's funny. The profanities weren't even directed towards insulting you. If someone had paid and didn't like the ruleset they could just get a refund. The fact is the majority of people -LIKE- the change because it makes the game more fair, and even those who don't generally do not care because it doesn't change the tournament very much as a whole anyway.

Calling someone an incompetent TO when you've never been to any of their tournaments is entertaining to say the least. I am one of the most well respected TO's around, not that you'd know since you've been on smashboards for what, 4 months?

You obviously know nothing about me or the effort i've put into the tournaments i've run. So really, calling me an incompetent TO is going to make you look just absolutely ******** because I've got the backing of probably over a thousand players who've been to my tournaments.

I'm an ******** on the boards but pretty much anyone who knows me can trust that I am a very well prepared, organized, efficient, and fair TO who has ran one of the, if not the, most successful non sponsored smash series in melee history.

The fact you're making such a big deal out of such a minor change is funny to me, I wonder what personal bias you have behind being so upset about the ruleset.

 

[AprilShaw]

I didn't realize how upset I was getting, my mistake.

Also lol @ the join date. I've been playing Smash since like 2005... I've just been a lurk. Not that you'll believe me when I say that, but w/e.

I also like how I'm the one making the big deal out of it. I even said, very specifically, in my first post, that it came down to being your choice.

And actually, I didn't think you all that incompetent until I saw your posts in this thread. I would have had MUCH more respect for you had you just said "yeah, it's worse for Fox, deal with it, it's my tourney."

I'm glad you put the effort towards these tournies. Anything that keeps the Smash scene going is fine in my book. And I'm glad that people respect you and your tournies. I just think, compared to other tournies I've been to, the way you've gone about handling registration/rules/etc, simply put, isn't as good. But, as I said before, it's all personal preference. I was actually defending your choice, really.

Chill out.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its not neutral, but its not that bad. when i called it a 4 i wasn't really thinking. maybe 1 or 2.

If i could keep it as just the neutral version, i wouldn't mind spacies taking me there because i have all the room in the world to work with, and a grab is either an easy platform combo or a chain grab.

 

[`DNS`]

As for corneria, I never liked the stupid stage. Broken for the specific reasons of off the top kills, the canon, the left wall being so shallow, and yeah... a wall. Great for fox, I just don't like it.

the wall isn't great for fox.. shine gives no stun if they hit it

 

[joeplicate]

even if you can't infinite, walls are still **** good for fox

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

1) hit them into the wall
2) if they miss tech, repeat step 1
3) if they tech, follow and repeat step 1.
4) if they leave the area of the wall, usmash then do some flashy tech skill while they are going off the top of the stage.

 

[AprilShaw]

Not gonna argue the wall is bad for Fox, but don't forget that other people can use it too.

Marth especially comes to mind. You don't wanna get caught between him and the wall on Corneria lol xD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its different, because fox has frame advantage and doesn't need to space. and his 1 frame move knocks you down causing more tech **** to occur.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Tech/tech jump a counter aerial or tech jump and double jump to the left for an escape. It isn't that hard to escape bad wall situations. Against fox...well fox ***** everybody in most situations as it is so why does this matter that much?

I think the real reason why the wall on corneria is cheap is the fact that it arches towards you, so it's like mad easy to di into the wall and tech. Playing with your back to wall at high percents can keep you alive a lot longer than you should be. It also positions your opponent between you and the ledge which gives you oppurtunities to take stocks while staying alive until absurd percents.

Corneria is a good stage and the wall is just something that people need to get used to. It adds an element to the level you have to be aware of, which is a good thing imo. I'm not sure simplifying the game is a healthy choice. If your going to ban corneria, then you might as well ban brinstar and rainbow cruize.

 

[Plairnkk]

I love your smash name, I must say. Good ****.

I left Brinstar and Cruise on as a counterpick for both floaty chars and faster animal-like chars accordingly. I don't really like either, I prefer all neutrals anyway but I wanted to meet somewhere in the middle.

Even though a lot of you guys don't agree, this ruleset worked REALLY well at the tournament on Saturday and people had a really good time.

I'm sorry to those who I don't please, I just wanted a good compromise for everyone because a lot of us felt the old ruleset was extremely outdated.

 

[AprilShaw]

I love your smash name, I must say. Good ****.

I left Brinstar and Cruise on as a counterpick for both floaty chars and faster animal-like chars accordingly. I don't really like either, I prefer all neutrals anyway but I wanted to meet somewhere in the middle.

Even though a lot of you guys don't agree, this ruleset worked REALLY well at the tournament on Saturday and people had a really good time.

I'm sorry to those who I don't please, I just wanted a good compromise for everyone because a lot of us felt the old ruleset was extremely outdated.

Yeah, this is what I was talking about before. Just tell people who complain that it's your choice and this is what you chose lol.

+respect, good stuff.

 

[Plairnkk]

Sober plank posts and drunk plank posts as a very huge difference.

 

[Smoke and smash]

I love your smash name, I must say. Good ****.

I left Brinstar and Cruise on as a counterpick for both floaty chars and faster animal-like chars accordingly. I don't really like either, I prefer all neutrals anyway but I wanted to meet somewhere in the middle.

Even though a lot of you guys don't agree, this ruleset worked REALLY well at the tournament on Saturday and people had a really good time.

I'm sorry to those who I don't please, I just wanted a good compromise for everyone because a lot of us felt the old ruleset was extremely outdated.

As a fox player, stage rules don't really bother me. I feel confident as fox on any stage against pretty much any character. It's one of the perks of playing fox =p.

I just felt corneria being banned wasn't justified by it's imbalances. I feel certain pokemon stadium transformations are far worse than corneria is. The mountain one, for example, leaves a wall much taller than the one on corneria on the far left side and a perfect little pocket in the middle. Fox has insane advantages during this transformation in both of these areas of the level. The 3rd segment (the right side) is to fox's advantage as well, but a bit less extreme. The windmill transformation gives fox more recovery options... I'm just saying in a relative sense, corneria is somewhat fair.

It's whatever though, it isn't my job to make sense of these things. I'll still play regardless.

 

[Plairnkk]

Corneria, TBH, was banned not as much for Fox as for general gameplay. The stage promotes camping when you have the lead since there are two distinct parts you can't be reached at without putting yourself in a compromising position. The stage has an insanely low ceiling which benefits certain characters, also. The random lasers from the ship can change the game, and the tilting level can also mess up certain people's recoveries. Ness can also abuse the lasers and re-gain health, although let's be honest here, who cares about Ness?

I like Corneria as a counterpick, but it can be somewhat random and promotes camping. So although it is indeed great for Fox and Falco, that's not really MY main issue with it.

 

[pockyD]

he's right though; ban stadium!

 

[derfleurer]

Edit: @SaS

Yeah, but then we get PS, Cruise, and Corneria as potential CPs. As a replacement for PS, Corneria doesn't appeal to the same cast of characters. And as an addition to the CP list, it kinda kills the balance in CP banning vs some characters.

 

[AprilShaw]

I never liked Corneria as a stage, but that's personal preference. However I loved having it as people auto banned it against my Fox.

What I believe would be the most fair, competitive stage rules would probably end up being what SPOC had. 7 stages, all were neutral, stage striking the first round. But I think my favorite rules to play, as I enjoy having more variety of stages, would be the old setup, or 7 neutrals + stage striking + counter picks, or character-specific counterpicks, or something like that.

But looking back on the Pound 4 ruleset from the mindset of the other characters, it really is more fair than I thought. It kinda blows for Fox but Fox has no real completely-get-***** stages except for Mute City, which is banned. Sheik and Marth got a little too much of an advantage, but if you tried to change it (take out Brinstar, FoD to counterpick, something like that) then it'd be really good for Fox/Falco and pretty bad for everyone else. So I think, even if it's not the most fair, it's at least more fair than the old one.

I will miss Jungle Japes though =(

 

[Plairnkk]

Yeah, thanks for not thinking i'm totally incompetent. T.T

I also tried to factor in the fact that some of the out of country players coming don't really use the same CP's that we do. It'd be a shame for them to lose because they don't understand pokefloats, you know?

I will miss japes, too. Sheik bthrow-->claptrap=broken combo.

 

[bolt.]

Yeah, thanks for not thinking i'm totally incompetent. T.T

I also tried to factor in the fact that some of the out of country players coming don't really use the same CP's that we do. It'd be a shame for them to lose because they don't understand pokefloats, you know?

I will miss japes, too. Sheik bthrow-->claptrap=broken combo.

Thats a good way to think about it. I also understand the pokemon stadium thing. The only thing I would change is brinstar.

 

[Plairnkk]

Thats a good way to think about it. I also understand the pokemon stadium thing. The only thing I would change is brinstar.

I'm hearing that a lot, actually. What about the floaty characters like Peach and Jiggs, the new ruleset doesn't really give them any solid counterpicks? We took away Japes and Mute City, which were both great for Peach. You could argue big levels like Kongo Jungle or DL64, but they're easily camped on those stages by faster characters and high platforms. Brinstar creates a solid counterpick for them that isn't too huge so they can't get camped on. A lot of characters have great strategies for Brinstar, too. I'm not sure what characters get ****ed too badly on it. It seems great for floaties, and decent for everyone else.

 

[X- Sylar -X]

Don't mind banning corneria cuz I believe most games just end up in a camp fest. Pokemon Stadium CP I disagree with hard.. Don't think fox has some sort of godly advantage, also if someone bans PS where do you go... Greens is gone so is Corneria doesn't limit falco tho I believe he ***** on BF,YS and does well on Fod so falco bans FD and if the random isn't dreamland falcos sitting nice.

Everyone keeps talking about how amazing fox is...... when was the last time a fox won a major tourney??
Jiggz,Peach and falco are tearing **** up at tourneys and everyone still talks about how amazing fox is???

I'm not coming to this so I don't care and I hope you guys can realize that.. I have no Bias only oppinion, and not a perfect one at that...

Just that how long before jiggz and falco have to win tourneys b4 eeveryone realizes that fox isn't that broken. When it comes down to it imo if a fox wants to win he's gotta b really good and effectively campy (stage depending)

Plank.. Sorry man but I jus did not agree with like 95 percent of ur posts until page 7 lol. Respect for running the tourney, but you have a lot of wack *** ideas about matchups and stages and really enjoyed mike (europhoria) saying what needed to be said some pages back. Would love to sit down n smoke kush bongs n debate smash with you all dai son!! But until then jus tell everyone who doesn't like it to suck it up like a **** cuz it's the tourney rules. and plz never justify your actions with the statement SBR agreed on it.. cuz SBR is just a bunch of bull ****. Smashers go back in there and debate their biased oppinions and justify them and hopefully enough people agree. SBR haha biggest piece of B.S haha

 

[Plairnkk]

Yeah, SBR is bull****, but you know what's bigger bull****? The opinion of the average smasher, unfortunately. At least those people have a lot of experience, biased or not.

This is the last time i'm going to say it, PS as a counterpick is SIMPLY because it's the -least- neutral stage on the neutral list, imo, and we need an ODD number of stages to do STAGE STRIKING. Rather than turning Kongo Jungle INTO a neutral when we all know it's not, I opted to take one stage out. PS still gets counterpicked EXTREMELY often though, from the tournaments i've seen running this stage set. Since it's stage striking the majority of times people would have struck it anyway. Some people think FOD is less neutral than PS and THAT should be taken off, but I disagree. Either way, though, realistically either of those stages are going to be struck 90% of the time against a character who has the advantage on them and you won't see them first match anyway.

I could understand the complaints about PS not being "neutral" if the first match was still determined by random. But since it's not and it's determined by a stage strike process, it hardly matters anyway.

Stage striking is way better than random, too, which is why I decided on that instead of "ok, click, go, hope it's not your worst neutral"

 

[X- Sylar -X]

I think the only way u can debate PS as the least neutral is by mentioning Fod. as for your first comment I disagree. I value the opinion of a lower level mid level or experienced smasher over one of an SBR memeber. The diffrence is that you can talk to the lower level smasher and discuss the oppinion as fact. Trying to talk to someone from SBR and changing their oppinion it ain't gunna happen because they believe that since they are better at the game not only do they know more, but no matter what their OPPINION is FACT. I just have to laugh my *** off that even on a forum their is some corrupt form of power that gorverns all...

P.S: Really lazy don't wanna find a thread so just correct me if i'm wrong...

is stage striking you eliminate a stage from the random but it can still be CP'd just not randomized and you also get to ban a CP?? is that right??

 

[Dogysamich]

Poppin my head back in here lols.

I like Corneria as a counterpick, but it can be somewhat random and promotes camping. So although it is indeed great for Fox and Falco, that's not really MY main issue with it.

Plank i'm not taking a potshot at you but pointing out something that I dont see why people dont understand about this game.

Smash, as a whole, promotes random. There's only 4 consistent stages in the game as is.

Yeah, SBR is bull****, but you know what's bigger bull****? The opinion of the average smasher, unfortunately. At least those people have a lot of experience, biased or not.

Quoted for truth.

There's just no other way around it.

 

[AprilShaw]

Yeah, thanks for not thinking i'm totally incompetent. T.T

I also tried to factor in the fact that some of the out of country players coming don't really use the same CP's that we do. It'd be a shame for them to lose because they don't understand pokefloats, you know?

I will miss japes, too. Sheik bthrow-->claptrap=broken combo.

I actually didn't/don't think you're incompetent, I was just kinda pissed off by what you said to me

I don't like how the SBR runs things. At least let the general population see, but not partake in, the discussions. But w/e.

And yeah, if you were gonna ban Brinstar you'd have to ban Rainbow Cruise to keep it fair. But then we'd be down to 7 stages, which is meh imo. I'd much prefer keeping both. Brinstar's a fun stage too, even if it's pretty bad for spacies lol.

Time to learn Rainbow Cruise and work on my Peach/Jiggs! <.<;

 

[pockyD]

can you explain why brinstar and rainbow cruise are so connected in your mind that they fall under 'both or neither'?

 

[Plairnkk]

I feel both levels provide advantages equally for their corresponding characters. Hence why I lump them together.

 

[Four]

Rainbow cruise not being banned freaks me out.
But hey i'm just some kid with 2 posts.
I think the ruleset seems pretty fair.
I just don't like Rainbow cruise...

 

[pockyD]

I feel both levels provide advantages equally for their corresponding characters. Hence why I lump them together.

this is kind of silly though, because while all cp-stage talk seems to revolve around the fox vs peach matchup for whatever reason, some characters just suck on both (marth, ice climbers, etc)

it's not like just because peach has an advantaged stage, fox deserves one too or vice versa

Rainbow cruise not being banned freaks me out.
But hey i'm just some kid with 2 posts.
I think the ruleset seems pretty fair.
I just don't like Rainbow cruise...

you get to ban a stage, so ban rainbow cruise in your sets

 

[Four]

Question: why are there counterpicks? usually the counterpick stages favor some characters greatly and it turns out that the winner on the counterpick wins less on skill and more by stage advantage/luck. probably a stupid question but can someone just answer it really quickly?

 

[AprilShaw]

this is kind of silly though, because while all cp-stage talk seems to revolve around the fox vs peach matchup for whatever reason, some characters just suck on both (marth, ice climbers, etc)

it's not like just because peach has an advantaged stage, fox deserves one too or vice versa

Honestly, as I said before I think the most neutral setup would be what SPOCVIII had (7 neutrals, stage striking) but personally I enjoy having more stages, as do a lot of players.

Just going off memory, the standard ruleset is (correct me if I'm wrong)

Neutrals:
Final destination
Fountain of Dreams
Dreamland
Pokemon Stadium
Yoshi's
Battlefield

CPs:
Corneria
Rainbow Cruise
Japes
Green Greens
Brinstar
Mute City
Pokefloats
Kongo 64

Of these, for the majority of matchups, Fox/Falco lose stages like Corneria, Japes, Green Greens, and Pokefloats, plus Stadium is a CP now. Jiggs/Peach lose Mute City, which was basically an auto win. I don't ever use Sheik so I don't know how she does, but Marth's don't often CP those stages, they usually CP neutrals, and avoid going to most CPs/Dreamland when possible. CFs usually go to FD, Dreamland, Yoshi's, or Kongo, all of which are staying. (I think I covered all the high/top tiers...)

Not gonna go into lower tiers, because I don't know much about them and there are a ton to worry about, but the spacies and Peach/Jiggs seem to have lost the most of the "tourney viable" characters, which is why they're the ones whose CPs are under discussion. Plus the stage striking is pretty nice for Marth and Sheik as is, lol.

Not saying my opinion on whether or not they should be "linked," just saying why I think they could be seen as that way.


Edit:

Question: why are there counterpicks? usually the counterpick stages favor some characters greatly and it turns out that the winner on the counterpick wins less on skill and more by stage advantage/luck. probably a stupid question but can someone just answer it really quickly?

Theoretically, if the first stage is perfectly neutral, the better player will win (isn't always true, but yeah).

Then if the second player counterpicks a stage, they will (again, theoretically) still need to be close enough in skill to win against their opponent on that stage. If they do win, it could give them the momentum they need to win the next match (at a stage disadvantage).

It should only make a difference in matches where players are very close in skill. But that relies on the fact that neutrals are neutral (or will come out to be neutral, through random or stage striking, over time/a large number of matches) and counterpicks are never an auto-win/players still have to be close to their opponent in skill to win on CPs.

 

[Europhoria]

>_> People should just stick to talking about PS' transformations making it CP worthy and not trying to out it as some amazing stage for the spacies. They honestly **** all the neutrals just as hard. There are so many sets/matches floating out there of players doing BETTER against the space animals on PS then some other neutrals. Low ceiling =/= space animal advantage.

The transformations are awesome for them, but other characters can do gay things on them too >_> Fox and Falco aren't the only characters that can hit you into a wall then hit you again.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

CABC i approve of your post. Good ****.

 

[Deleted member]

stages aren't picked to make some characters better than others. stages serve as a medium of competitive play in that both players are satisfied on the outcome of a set. think about it. if you go to a tournament and see half of the attendees picking fox on green greens for their CP, the stage list has obviously failed. it's fairly agreed upon.

if you ***** about your fox losing to peach on FD because of FD, all you'll get is 5-10 peach mains laughing at you.

it's not like this stage list is bad for fox in any way. you're playing the only character that can choose when to attack, you're not going to be relatively bad on any stage ever.

 

[Lovage]

LOL umbreon is so angry at this game

****

 

[Brookman]

no johns scrubs

 

[Tomacawk]

this stage list is really really gay
I think you're all over-compensating for fox
stadium as a counterpick? WTF seriously? okay whatever fox does **** there but that map is just awesome. i take fox's there with falcon but i know that isn't a very common choice for most falcon players
so anyway i think PS is ****** but i understand why it's a CP now
but wtf how is brinstar still here!??? that map is totally ****ed for reasons everybody already said, and plank gtfo that is an excellent sheik map
IMO sheik is like fox in the sense that she's pretty legit on any map
and i don't think fod should be a random at all but whatever
and seriously plank? sheik is worse on KJ64 than fox?
i'd say you're smoking too much wacky tobacky but there is no such thing, you're just wrong =X
either way the new list is more fair for the entire cast but i still think fox got over-nerfed by this stagelist and now it's boring, floats was ******
i'm askign everybody every set if they're okay with stadium now