Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[Berserker.]

As of now, I think I've KO'd more with Jump than I did with Smash because I'm too tempted to play aggressively with smash. This is all mentality issues. I think I can do better

Oh and back slash is awesome. That range

@ Masonomace

Apparently, buster does additional shield damage. I think. Maybe it's because when I used F-smash on someone's shield, it became really small but when I had smash activated then used it, it didn't do much

Someone confirm this just in case

 

[Silver Forte]

Speed mode and jump are really good, really improve his mobility around. Thought jump wasn't gonna be that useful but his aerial mobility is rather crazy with it.

Shield def has uses, he gets realllly heavy with it active, like I was getting hit by smash attacks at over 150 at surviving.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Masonomace

Apparently, buster does additional shield damage. I think. Maybe it's because when I used F-smash on someone's shield, it became really small but when I had smash activated then used it, it didn't do much

Someone confirm this just in case

I think we can practically say that Buster does do additional shield damage. I've noticed that the Shieldstun is a lot stronger in Buster mode as well. Anytime I see MAB active & they use Ftilt on shield, the push-back sends them sliding!

Also to everyone I'll be updating the OP a bit today unless big info comes in the thread via posts, then I can really go to town on it.

 

[Berserker.]

More stuff from hours ago

- I can't do much combos with buster but that's fine. Each hit really packs a punch
- Vision is awesome but I seem to be hit out of it when I counter Pikachu's thunder. I'm starting to actually use the stronger variation especially when I go for the KO. I avoid using it though with buster when the player is at sub 50%
- U-smash is really good in my opinion. You can catch people off guard with it especially with speed. I got some lucky reads though. Maybe like 3 times in several matches, I've killed players that jumped from ledge grabbing with u-smash. Nothing much really
- F-smash is awesome. Insane range. REALLY insane range. You can take advantage of its range and even edgeguard with it instead of jumping off and using f-air or b-air. Aiming it down, forward or up really helps
- Nair is beast. Especially with jump. Fair is extremely good for edgeguarding. Same goes for bair. I don't use them (fair/bair) that much though on stage. Yeah I know, you can FH it so that you can follow it up with nair to make the landing non existent but I am still trying to get the feel of it
- All of Shulk's tilts are really useful. Utilt is a great anti-air tool plus, following it up from u-throw is great for additional damage. Ftilt is my most used KO move along with bair and f-smash. Dtilt, well.... I use it purely for spacing and damage. Oh and, I use it against Pikachu

Oh and lastly, using buster at the start of a match is fine.

 

[Masonomace]

Made updates to the OP's Move-set section.

New hit-boxes are officially within Shulk's Monado sword:
**Blade's Base = strongest hit-box
Blade = mostly the stronger hit-box than Beam
Beam = mostly the weaker hit-box than Blade
*Beam's Tip = weakest hit-box

To be Announced until fully confirmed: Blade's Tip (?)
Many of Shulk's move-set need % damages based on the confirmed 4 types of hit-boxes Shulk possesses.

 

[Starfall11]

More information:

- F-smash is great. It's extremely slow and has high ending lag. Which steers a lot of people away from it, but when spaced properly with its max range, it's relatively safe. You can hit with the tip in Smash and still score KOs. Can be used for edgeguarding for people who don't sweetspot the ledge or jump up.

- F-tilt is quick and great for spacing. It's also probably the most viable KO move in Smash mode. Since it doesn't leave you completely open, comes out pretty quickly and can space really well.

- Short hop N-air can be used all day, all the time. It's great. When you hit and you're close, you can combo into the standard jab combo. Once they start shield grabbing you, you can you SH Nair to hit with the tip of the beam. Most characters can't punish or shield grab from that range. Standard jab combo doesn't work as followup when you space with the beam, so instead you can combo it into D-tilt. And occasionally two d-tilts depending on the weight and fall speed of the character. It racks up damage very fast in Buster.

Overall, spacing seems to be the most important aspects of Shulk. And using whatever mode is necessary depending on the matchup. For example, against Rosalina... Even though Buster has some uses. Speed and Jump are almost a necessity to play around her excellent zoning game.

Lastly, can anyone differentiate between the two variations of Vision? I know it seems faster when you use forward tilt with it, and personally... the animation is so much more awesome. Is it stronger? I've noticed it misses sometimes when the normal Vision could have hit.

 

[Neo Zero]

http://smashboards.com/threads/engage-the-enemy-match-up-voting.371141/

For all of us bronados, you can finally vote. Remember, this thread ISNT for match up discussion. Those will be made later once we've all had some good time with the game.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Starfall11 & @ Berserker.
When you guys mention about Fsmash being a good edge-guarding tool, do you also mean to say that Fsmash tilted downward can hit characters hanging on the ledge?

A strategy that comes to mind that I've done since Brawl:
Read when they'll use their UpB to recover regardless of snapping the ledge or not, & begin charging up Shulk's Fsmash tilting it downward, FC'ing it will let loose by the time their intangibility wears off, hitting them & launching them to set us up for an edge-guard or it's a KO. If they ledge-drop & use their DoubleJump to hop up with or without DI'ing forward, they get hit from the initial Fsmash with the Beam portion. The alternative is they drop down from the ledge to avoid it completely & we just wait for them to attempt snapping the ledge or missing it punishing with a Dtilt or Ftilt since they'll think the 2nd Fsmash is coming.

Lastly, can anyone differentiate between the two variations of Vision? I know it seems faster when you use forward tilt with it, and personally... the animation is so much more awesome. Is it stronger? I've noticed it misses sometimes when the normal Vision could have hit.

Vision all by itself versus the Forwarded Vision dash only have a couple of differences:

1. Forwarded Vision deals more base % damage & more knockback, which can be a stupidly strong KO option combined with Rage, & Smash.
2. Forwarded Vision cannot be used airborne & it's sliding hit-box area seems shorter than the longer sliding Vision, thus ends the differences between the two.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hmm... From my experience with playing on For Glory, I'm starting to think that you'll need to change Arts according to match ups more then expected. Because the strategy of using Speed 》Buster 》Smash seems inconsistent on some characters. Like for example I tried doing that against Little Mac, but since he's so fast and powerful it didn't work. Instead of using Speed or Buster to rake up damage and then switch to Smash when he's juiced up, I stuck with vanilla Shulk and prioritized simply getting Mac off the stage.

 

[Starfall11]

So forward is stronger, but doesn't have quite as much range?

And I wasn't aware that you could d-tilt Shulk's Forward Smash. I can't imagine how that would look angled downwards. I'll have to try that next time. I was more reffering to keeping the beam just off the edge of the level. So people who don't grab the ledge or try to come back an air attack, you can beat them out and score a KO.

 

[Jgod]

The fact that all stances have drawbacks keeps vanilla useful. I also find myself in vanilla against Mac a lot more.

 

[Masonomace]

@ FlareHabanero & @ J Jgod
Eggsactly. Which is why I'm trying to gather % damages for Shulk & Shulk alone without trying to make Move-set data of any sort of the MArts. Shulk on his own without pressing Neutral B is a above average character, MArts are just there to be in the move-set & to augment situations to turn the tide or go unfavorably untimely.

 

[AlexTetris]

Hi, long time lurker dropping in. After like 100 or so For Glory matches with this guy, I'll just jot down what I got. I only really read the first post, so tell me if I'm doing this wrong or something.

-I really, really like alternating between N-Air and F-Air for spacing and approaches. The coverage for both are immense and SH N-Air can actually combo into Jab at low percents.
-Practically his entire kit is based around severe punishes and reads upon reads. D-smash capitalizes on roll-behinds very nicely and Smash/Buster-Vision are both ridiculous on slower attacks.
-Because of Shulk's immense range and spacing options, I could easily work around Buster's damage drawback. Probably goes without saying, but Buster has no real drawback if you don't get hit. >_>
-Pivot Cancels on Speed Mode have Shulk slide really far. I want to take advantage of this somehow, but you slide so fast and far it's hard to hit things. :<
-Shulk's grab range feels really short and bad. I can be like right next to a guy and not be able to shieldgrab for a punish. Kind of irritating since I use Marth a ton in Melee...
-N-Air juggling seems more doable than U-Air juggling because aerials that stab things are hard.

 

[Berserker.]

@ Starfall11 & @ Berserker.
When you guys mention about Fsmash being a good edge-guarding tool, do you also mean to say that Fsmash tilted downward can hit characters hanging on the ledge?

Yeah. F-smash can be tilted

-Shulk's grab range feels really short and bad. I can be like right next to a guy and not be able to shieldgrab for a punish. Kind of irritating since I use Marth a ton in Melee...

Yeah. I have to pivot it to actually grab with it (or I just use speed) which sucks because I suck at pivoting as of now

 

[Masonomace]

Hi, long time lurker dropping in. After like 100 or so For Glory matches with this guy, I'll just jot down what I got. I only really read the first post, so tell me if I'm doing this wrong or something.

-I really, really like alternating between N-Air and F-Air for spacing and approaches. The coverage for both are immense and SH N-Air can actually combo into Jab at low percents.
-I dig that you like the alternation between those two aerials. I don't see anything wrong with that, since, those two certain aerials are fairly good moves especially Nair for the obvious reasons. If you want to go hard on spacing / approaching then I suggest Bair, & RAR+Bairs. In case you don't know RAR, it's Reverse Aerial Rush, & to input it, it goes like this:

(Running) » (reverse your direction to turn around) » + OR + = ShortHop / FullHop RAR Bair
Bair is Shulk's longest horizontal reaching aerial that if spaced, the Beam's Tip will still do damage, & if it's fresh it'll deal at least 7%. Sweet-spotted will deal 11% if you hit with the Beam / Blade portion. Ofc Bair used by ShortHopping or FullHopping it is up to you depending how they approach from the air / ground. And finally SH Nair does fairly well stringing into landing Jabs, plus another option to try out is SH Nair into landing grabs with your DI'ing toward them ofc, Shulk's grab-range is poor.
-Practically his entire kit is based around severe punishes and reads upon reads. D-smash capitalizes on roll-behinds very nicely and Smash/Buster-Vision are both ridiculous on slower attacks.
Agreed!
-Because of Shulk's immense range and spacing options, I could easily work around Buster's damage drawback. Probably goes without saying, but Buster has no real drawback if you don't get hit. >_>
Buster is great, but be wary of Very-Heavy-Weights when using the Beam portions of any of your moves. I sound like a broken record saying this, but using Buster versus Light-Weights gives you the potential to easily out-space them with your range extremely early in the match, practically at the start with 0%.
-Pivot Cancels on Speed Mode have Shulk slide really far. I want to take advantage of this somehow, but you slide so fast and far it's hard to hit things. :<
If you've played Fox from Brawl you'll fit right at home using Speed's Pivoting, especially the Pivot grab. If you didn't play Brawl Fox, hakuna matata, because you'll get accustomed to the Pivoting anyways. Mind-games are required for Speed, as you can ShieldStop in mid-dash & run to the other side & Pivot Cancel Ftilt / Grab / Fsmash. You could say it's a long back n forth Dashdance on the floor, & this messes with people's heads when their upon landing the ground big time.
-Shulk's grab range feels really short and bad. I can be like right next to a guy and not be able to shieldgrab for a punish. Kind of irritating since I use Marth a ton in Melee...
Speed helps this by having an amazing Pivoted sliding grab, but if you're not using Speed, then I got nothing much to help you with on that. Idk if Shield DI returned to Sm4sh or not, but if Shield DI returned I'd tell ya to always DI your shield toward the attack's oncoming direction. Holding the Shield forward would bring your shield more in front of you, but like I said Idk if it's back or if it's removed. If you can't shield-grab within Shulk's poor grab-range, then use a tilt preferably Dtilt OoS.
-N-Air juggling seems more doable than U-Air juggling because aerials that stab things are hard.
I feel for you on this. Jump improves your air-game so it wouldn't matter what aerial you used, but about Regular Shulk I'd say his above-air-game is almost poor but not really. Uair is a janky move like Dair is, & Uair would be better put to use on a stage with platforms (BattleField) rather than a flat stage like FD / Omega stages. Uair is like Fsmash in that you don't need to land the Blade hit first, you can space the high altitude with the Beam if you like.

Embarrass There's more posts than just the first post but okay. Replies are in your quote

Yeah. F-smash can be tilted

Yeah. I have to pivot it to actually grab with it (or I just use speed) which sucks because I suck at pivoting as of now

So, the tilted Fsmash can hit ledge-hangers, right? I want it to be so, the grounded edge-guards would be too real!

 

[Berserker.]

Embarrass There's more posts than just the first post but okay. Replies are in your quote

So, the tilted Fsmash can hit ledge-hangers, right? I want it to be so, the grounded edge-guards would be too real!

I'm pretty fine with using Buster against Bowser but for some reason against Ganondorf, I'd use jump or speed instead then I'd use shield to actually KO. No, seriously.

Jump Shulk + FF Nair + Pivot grab = Hotness

Embarrass There's more posts than just the first post but okay. Replies are in your quote

So, the tilted Fsmash can hit ledge-hangers, right? I want it to be so, the grounded edge-guards would be too real!

No. It can hit people out of their recoveries

Examples are Bowser or Link

But don't use it against recoveries that grab like Ganondorf or CF

 

[Masonomace]

I'm pretty fine with using Buster against Bowser but for some reason against Ganondorf, I'd use jump or speed instead then I'd use shield to actually KO. No, seriously.

Jump Shulk + FF Nair + Pivot grab = Hotness

No. It can hit people out of their recoveries

Examples are Bowser or Link

But don't use it against recoveries that grab like Ganondorf or CF

That's odd. Considering that "Light Armor" thing I hear about Bowser having, I would of insinuated Bowser vs Buster would be a bad MU for the Art, maybe not.

For the ganon scenario I can dig it. Shield needs some love, not to mention Shield with some Rage is always a plus. I also like that Jump Shulk cross-up example you typed. That's a big common Brawl Lucario tactic many resorted to using including F1FP, so seeing it used in other character's game-play is a plus too.

So you don't use Fsmash grounded edge-guarding with the extended hit-box of the Beam because CF & Ganon can Super Armor through & grab us or something?
That doesn't sound good.

 

[Berserker.]

That's odd. Considering that "Light Armor" thing I hear about Bowser having, I would of insinuated Bowser vs Buster would be a bad MU for the Art, maybe not.

For the ganon scenario I can dig it. Shield needs some love, not to mention Shield with some Rage is always a plus. I also like that Jump Shulk cross-up example you typed. That's a big common Brawl Lucario tactic many resorted to using including F1FP, so seeing it used in other character's game-play is a plus too.

So you don't use Fsmash grounded edge-guarding with the extended hit-box of the Beam because CF & Ganon can Super Armor through & grab us or something?
That doesn't sound good.

I don't know. I keep getting grabbed every time I attempt to use it against CF or Ganon so I never use it

Just don't be dumb against Bowser. Getting up close to Bowser = Death. Spacing and punishing and especially countering is important here

Edit: You can grab peanuts

More stuff yet again
- Back slash is VERY odd in a positive way. It has some sort of weird hitbox above Shulk (Upper front?). I was able to get some kills this way
- Strong variation of vision has a hitbox on Shulk's back
- You can KO Jigglypuff with vision counter early (50-60 range) if you counter her b-air and if you have smash activated (Possibly, you might not need smash)
- I haven't used OoS air slash yet but f-tilt with smash works wonders
- Diddy can hit Shulk out of Air slash with f-smash from what I noticed unless there's something I'm missing here that allows this to happen.... Maybe I was too close?
- Buster sucks against Diddy. Just stick to jump or speed
- D-smash's hitbox reaches off the edge. Something to take note of
- Don't use nair off the edge. It lasts very long. Use f-air or b-air to edgeguard. B-air is a good KO option while edgeguarding
- Bowser, King Dedede, Ganondorf and Ike well.... Vision counter works well against them but don't get counter happy with it. You'll get predictable and they'll probably just grab you more often. Only use it when they use a strong attack



My huge post in the 1st page is open to being edited. Feel free to suggest on which part to edit but please do it in an organized manner

1) Quote a part of the post
2) Put the edit in the quote. Make the font color similar to what part you are editing

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh yeah, and I noticed that Shulk's down tilt has a blind spot at point blank. However, it seems to be character specific, with the rule of thumb being that the humen(-esque) characters can take advantage of it while the "wider" or non-human characters can't.

Can





*
*





*
*
*

*
*
*

*


**

*Can only use the blind spot while pushed against a wall or edge; Palutena and Shulk can use the blind spot regardless from the back but not front.
**Used a medium sized Mii Brawler, may require more research.

Can't

























I plan on also developing a damage chart in the future for every relevent Art. I won't do Jump since it doesn't effect damage or knockback.

 

[Starfall11]

I also noticed it has a blind spot. However, Dtilt is usually used at his its max range (at least in my case). Most of Shulk's moves come out too slow and are highly punishable up close.

I've found that pivot grab in Speed is extremely useful. You can backthrow them off the ledge from almost anywhere at the stage at any percent. I had a question about regular Shulk's grab game. Has anyone found any useful setups involving pivot grab or regular throws outside of Monado Speed?

I'm trying to use Nair as an approach option, then run in to pivot or grab. But he's pretty slow in normal state. I shield grab a lot, which works nicely. But I would like some more approach options from Buster which let you go for a throw. If anyone has ideas, please share!

 

[Opana]

I use Fthrow->Dash towards them->B Reversed Back Slash as they almost always di behind me when they see me chase.

Actually, I use Back Slash a lot in general, I feel it's a great punish considering its huge range, bt yeah like any laggy move it shouldn't be just thrown out. Since Jump Shulk increases air speed, I usually fly right over them when returning then follow up with another reverse Back Slash. I use reverse Back Slashes a lot pretty much.

I use Speed Shulk's pivot grab to usually fthrow(Bthrow can lead to dair gimps) them, then either chase with Fair/Nair or reverse slash. I also pivot Fsmashes and tilts, but not nearly as much as the grab. I also love running off the ledge and using a Bair to stage spike(Works great aginst, say Duck Hunt.), or pursuing with a Fair.

I usually alternate between buster and speed for damage racking, almost always starting with speed although speedy characters usually have me go Buster rather than attempt to keep up with speed, I rely more on baiting and defense tactics then.

I use Smash Shulk around when they're 50%, it helps get them offstage for gimps and with Fairs great radius of attack can seal the deal on their stock. It's a nice alternative to Jump, as it helps get them off as well as fend them off.

I use Shield when at really high percents; I initially wrote this art off until I realized that in combination with the Rage Mechanic it's great for squeezing another life out of them.

I'd also like to add, I use Air Slash as an edge guard rather well, it covers those who recover high up with the possibility of a kill. Aside from that, if you hold down at the ledge you ignore it(I use this tactic with every character honestly) then Air Slash's second strike can cover an approaching enemy from a respectable distance. Then, you can grab on to the ledge and press back tolet go, activate Jump, then make a speedy escape from that ledge.

Just wanted to share a little of how I play, as well as add onto that post above mine.

 

[Masonomace]

I don't know. I keep getting grabbed every time I attempt to use it against CF or Ganon so I never use it

Just don't be dumb against Bowser. Getting up close to Bowser = Death. Spacing and punishing and especially countering is important here

Edit: You can grab peanuts

More stuff yet again
- Back slash is VERY odd in a positive way. It has some sort of weird hitbox above Shulk (Upper front?). I was able to get some kills this way
- Strong variation of vision has a hitbox on Shulk's back
- You can KO Jigglypuff with vision counter early (50-60 range) if you counter her b-air and if you have smash activated (Possibly, you might not need smash)
- I haven't used OoS air slash yet but f-tilt with smash works wonders
- Diddy can hit Shulk out of Air slash with f-smash from what I noticed unless there's something I'm missing here that allows this to happen.... Maybe I was too close?
- Buster sucks against Diddy. Just stick to jump or speed
- D-smash's hitbox reaches off the edge. Something to take note of
- Don't use nair off the edge. It lasts very long. Use f-air or b-air to edgeguard. B-air is a good KO option while edgeguarding
- Bowser, King Dedede, Ganondorf and Ike well.... Vision counter works well against them but don't get counter happy with it. You'll get predictable and they'll probably just grab you more often. Only use it when they use a strong attack

Very interesting. So Back Slash's hit-box remained unchanged, because Enduring Back Slash when I did research on it had a hit-box on start-up that was active being over Shulk's head. Nice! Does it have the cape mechanic to it like EBS does?

The part about Diddy hitting you out of AS with Fsmash seems believable but maybe that's just from the move connecting to your rising jump while you were too close. AS has a Beam hit-box that does less damage but hits from a farther distance so I guess go with that.

Everyone else's posts are well informing!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

After finally getting to play against a lot of human opponents at a smashfest today I honestly have to say that Shulk is NOT fun to play on the 3DS version. The amount of SDs I commited through input errors - sideB offstage instead of upB - was quite bad. The lack of c-stick also hurts and I generally don't feel very comfortable playing this character on the 3DS. Maybe it's because of my sloppy inputs but I definitely think that you should not judge this character before the Wii U version comes out where you can retreat fair, fastfall aerials and don't hae to worry about mixing up sie B and up B.

As far as matchups are concerned I have made rather positive experience against Little Mac. Rosalina on the other hand seems to have quite a solid advantage over Shulk. Would assume the same to be true against the Duck Hunt Duo and against Diddy Kong. One of Shulk's main strengths is his zoning game and these two characters definitely out-zone Shulk with their ground control. I find Monado Jump to be more useful against Rosalina than Monado Speed. It's very difficult in either case though.
I think Shulk generally does better against fast-paced, rushdown characters because he has a powerful midrange zoning game of his own and it's easier to use Monado Arts against their comparatively conventional playstyles. Though using Monado Arts is another thing I'll most likely only start doing well once the Wii U version comes around. Until then I'll keep practicing Shulk but will most likely use other characters in tounament as well.

 

[Jgod]

Nair out prioritizes everything duck hunt throws.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Here's the damage output for every attack.

White - Vanilla
Blue - Speed
Yellow - Shield
Purple - Buster
Red - Smash

+/- 0% Damage

Neutral combo- 3% first hit, 3% second hit, 4% third hit
Forward tilt- 12% base, 10% tip
Down tilt- 8% base, 6% tip
Up tilt- 7% base, 6% tip
Dash attack- 10%
Ledge attack- 7%
Forward smash- 5% first hit, 12% second hit uncharged; 7% first hit, 17% second hit fully charged
Up smash- 4% first hit, 13% second hit uncharged; 5% first hit, 18% second hit fully charged
Down smash- 13% uncharged; 18% fully charged
Neutral aerial- 6% base, 7% blade
Forward aerial- 6% base, 5% tip
Back aerial- 11% base, 7% tip
Up aerial- 4% first hit, 9% second hit
Down aerial- 6% first hit, 10% second hit
Pummel- 3%
Up throw- 2% first hit, 4% second hit
Down throw- 2% first hit, 4% second hit
Forward throw- 2% first hit, 8% second hit
Back throw- 2% first hit, 9% second hit
Back Slash- 9% base, 10% blade front; 14% base, 16% back
Air Slash- 5% first and second hit

-20% Damage

Neutral combo- 2% first hit, 2% second hit, 3% third hit.
Forward tilt- 8% base, 7% tip
Down tilt- 6% base, 5% tip
Up tilt- 5% base, 4% tip
Dash attack- 8%
Ledge attack- 5%
Forward smash- 3% first hit, 9% second hit uncharged; 5% first hit, 12% second hit fully charged
Up smash- 2% first hit, 11% second hit uncharged; 5% first hit, 13% second hit fully charged
Down smash- 9% damage uncharged; 13% fully charged
Neutral aerial- 4% base, 5% blade
Forward aerial- 4% base, 3% tip
Back aerial- 7% base, 5% tip
Up aerial- 3% first hit, 6% second hit
Down aerial- 4% first hit, 7% second hit
Pummel- 2%
Up throw- 2% first hit, 3% second hit
Down throw- 2% first hit, 3% second hit
Forward throw- 2% first hit, 5% second hit
Back throw- 2% first hit, 6% second hit
Back Slash- 6% base, 7% blade front; 10% base, 11% blade back
Air Slash- 3% first hit, 4% second hit

-30% Damage

Neutral combo- 2% first hit, 2% second hit, 3% third hit
Forward tilt- 8% base, 7% tip
Down tilt- 5% base, 4% tip
Up tilt- 4%
Dash attack- 7%
Ledge attack- 4%
Forward smash- 3% first hit, 8 second hit uncharged; 5% first hit, 12% second hit fully charged
Up smash- 2% first hit, 11% second hit uncharged; 4% first hit, 12% second hit fully charged
Down smash- 9% uncharged; 12% fully charged
Neutral aerial- 4%
Forward aerial- 4% base, 3% tip
Back aerial- 7% base, 4% tip
Up aerial- 3% first hit, 6% second hit
Down aerial- 4% first hit, 7% second hit
Pummel- 2%
Up throw- 2% both hits
Down throw- 2% both hits
Forward throw- 2% first hit, 5% second hit
Back throw- 1% damage, 6% second hit
Back Slash- 6% base, 7% blade front; 9% base, 11% blade front
Air Slash- 3% first hit, 4% second hit

+40% Damage

Neutral combo- 4% first hit, 4% second hit, 6% third hit
Forward tilt- 16% base, 14% tip
Down tilt- 11% base, 8% tip
Up tilt- 9% base, 8% tip
Dash attack- 14%
Ledge attack- 9%
Forward smash- 7% first hit, 17% second hit uncharged; 9% first hit, 24% second hit fully charged
Up smash- 5% first hit, 18% second hit uncharged; 7% first hit, 25% second hit fully charged
Down smash- 18% uncharged; 25% fully charged
Neutral aerial- 8% base, 9% blade
Forward aerial- 9% base, 7% tip
Back aerial- 15% base, 9% tip
Up aerial- 5% first hit, 12% second hit
Down aerial- 8% first hit, 14% second hit
Pummel- 4%
Up throw- 3% first hit, 5% second hit
Down throw- 3% first hit, 5% second hit
Forward throw- 3% first hit, 11% second hit
Back throw- 3% first hit, 12% second hit
Back Slash- 12% base, 14% blade front; 19% base, 22% blade back
Air Slash- 7% first and second hit

-50% Damage

Neutral combo- 1% first hit, 2% second hit, 2% third hit
Forward tilt- 6% base, 5% tip
Down tilt- 4% base, 3% tip
Up tilt- 3%
Dash attack- 5%
Ledge attack- 3%
Forward smash- 2% first hit, 6% second hit uncharged; 3% first hit, 8% second hit fully charged
Up smash- 2% first hit, 6% second hit uncharged; 3% first hit, 9% second hit fully charged
Down smash- 6% uncharged; 9% fully charged
Neutral aerial- 3% base, 3% blade
Forward aerial- 3% base, 2% tip
Back aerial- 5% base, 3% tip
Up aerial- 2% first hit, 4% second hit
Down aerial- 3% first hit, 5% second hit
Pummel- 1%
Up throw- 1% first hit, 2% second hit
Down throw- 1% first hit, 2% second hit
Forward throw- 1% first hit, 4% second hit
Back throw- 1% first hit, 4% second hit
Back Slash- 4% base, 5% blade front; 7% base, 8% blade back
Air Slash- 2% first hit, 3% second hit

I used both caluculations and actual testing in the game, but if you see any inconsistencies don't be afraid to ask. Also the global percentage I listed is an estimate based on the results.

 

[Berserker.]

King Dedede seems to be a fun match up

Only if you never touch buster

Jump and speed are great against Dedede

 

[Mech0nis]

So where are we in this discussion right now?

 

[Neo Zero]

Amazing work @ FlareHabanero

Any of you ever using Shield yet?

 

[Masonomace]

Well done @ FlareHabanero I applaud this. I can't really point out any inconsistencies, but I'm curious how you got the % damages for Vanilla's Fsmash's 2nd fully charged & Dair's 1st hit 6%, unless that's when you hit them with the Blade's Base for the 6% & not 4% from hitting with the Blade. I can't wait for the full % damages from all 4 of Shulk's hit-boxes.

 

[Deleted member]

Great thread!! This cleared some things up for me regarding his Monado Arts. Shield definitely seems like it would be effective when Shulk has a stock lead, but he's at a higher percent and at risk of being launched further.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well done @ FlareHabanero I applaud this. I can't really point out any inconsistencies, but I'm curious how you got the % damages for Vanilla's Fsmash's 2nd fully charged & Dair's 1st hit 6%, unless that's when you hit them with the Blade's Base for the 6% & not 4% from hitting with the Blade. I can't wait for the full % damages from all 4 of Shulk's hit-boxes.

When I refer to the base, I refer to the Monado itself, while when I mention blade I'm talking about the beam. Tip refers to those situations where it's consistent through the attack except for the very end of the hitbox. I made sure to test out the sweet and sourspots, which is easier said then done since some attacks like the up aerial are tricky to pull off. It got so bad I had to use Bowser as the punching bag!

I still have a feel I'm forgetting something though...

 

[Neo Zero]

Outside of customs, not that I'm aware of.


Oh wait, Down Smash hits 3 times for differing Kb and damage iirc

Front>Back>Front are the three hit boxes iirc

 

[Masonomace]

I thought Dsmash had 3 hits in front of him & 3 hits behind him that did different % damages / KBs. I do need to add the % damage data for Ledge Attack, but where do you guys think that should go under exactly in the Move-set section I have in the OP?

EDIT: Oh right @ FlareHabanero I remember we have wake-up attacks after falling on the ground geting up, & forced tripping get-up attack data too.

 

[FlareHabanero]

EDIT: Oh right @ FlareHabanero I remember we have wake-up attacks after falling on the ground geting up, & forced tripping get-up attack data too.

I sort of avoided those because, unlike past games, I can't set up characters in whatever situation I want due to the lack of controller support on the 3DS. Meaning that I'll have to just get beaten up by the AI until I'm on the ground and can preform the ground attacks, which has it's own problems since I can't exactly position my characters consistently on their back or stomach (technically there are two floor attacks) and I can't exactly evaluate any particular sweet or sour spot.

Also, yeah I knew I was forgetting the down smash hit multiple times and the customs, though that latter is going to take a while since I'll need to grind. I'll test out the former tomorrow using a custom Bowser with a lot of defense.

 

[Neo Zero]

I can do both probably tmrw (at least the get up attack data and all that)

Down Smash doesn't have that many hitboxes I don't think.

Edit: Down Smash hits 3 times infront and 2 times behind. The final swing backwards doesn't have a hitbox as far as I tested.

 

[Masonomace]

I can do both probably tmrw (at least the get up attack data and all that)

Down Smash doesn't have that many hitboxes I don't think.

Edit: Down Smash hits 3 times infront and 2 times behind. The final swing backwards doesn't have a hitbox as far as I tested.

Nice Shu, then that indicates according to Shulk's animation visuals that his 3rd spinning hit in front of him is the last hit, which his 3rd spinning attack backwards isn't a hit-box but his ending lag basically. That helps a lot.

**Now updating the OP

 

[FlareHabanero]

Updated my data with the sour spots of the tilts for all Arts.

See, I told you I was forgeting something. I'll bother with the sour spots of the smash attacks later, I'm tired.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh boy. I'm gonna have to put what Xenoblaze found in the OP. Alright alright

So far, I've used shield and lived up to 220%. Lol

Oh and I'm not sure about this but I think during Monado activation, Shulk's untouchable.... I gotta test this but this happened just once. I'll try it out

Edit: Confirmed. You're invulnerable while your activating. You need to trigger the activation animation

And @ FlareHabanero thanks. I'll add your stuff when I'm using a better computer

Training mode stuff

- Monado activation animation renders you invincible during the animation
- You can switch monado arts even WHILE you're suffering from hitsun (Or while you're sent flying). Tested it on being whacked by a hammer with 1/4 speed on. I can't use attacks but I can switch arts
- Buster d-throw... You can catch opponents with f-tilt from d-throw from 0% then from 23%, use f-smash after d-throw. Needs to be double checked because I lack faith in myself >_>
- Forward inputting vision helps you pass by Robin's fire projectile

 

[Neo Zero]

Wait, when did you guys switch the OP?

That's...a very interesting mind game in a way. Does it last the entire animation or just the start up frames?

 

[Berserker.]

Wait, when did you guys switch the OP?

That's...a very interesting mind game in a way. Does it last the entire animation or just the start up frames?

Entire animation as far as I know

I tried it out and exploited it by readying smash and using the animation to dodge a smash attack then I f-tilted. This only happened once in several of my local matches