Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[Starfall11]

Neutral Special: Monado Arts/Decisive Monado Arts
Forward Special: Jumping Back Slash
Upwards Special: Forward Air Slash
Downward Special: Vision

Now for explanations. Decisive Monado Arts could be very useful. Having an extra 4 seconds to stay in each form is fairly long. It's true that you can't deactivate them, but this encourages you to plan ahead and make wiser decisions. Getting the absolute most of each Monado Art. If you're stuck in Smash after a KO, either avoid your opponent, use Shulk's range and high knockback to play keepaway, or maybe even come up with some 0% combos. (I've been wondering if Smash would combo great from 0% since the knockback might make more possible.) Lastly, because Shulk has to deactivate his current monado art to switch arts, this can leave you vulnerable when using his regular arts. Decisive Monado Arts encourages a more active playstyle. (In fact, some of the best Shulk's I have seen spend very little time switching arts. Focusing more on spacing, and waiting for a safe opportunity to switch arts.)

As for Jumping Back Slash. Visually, it looked quicker to me. If it has less ending lag, I will definitely use it. Can anyone confirm if its recovery frames are the same as the original? If so, I'll stick with the original.

Forward Air Slash is great for better horizontal recovery and almost guarantees the second hit will connect. Plus, it looks damn awesome.

I think I'll stick with the original Vision. Powerful Vision has amazing KO potential, but depending on the attack you counter, opponent's can proceed to hit you out of it or shield it. Not very useful then. Dash Vision is cool, but so weak that I don't see it providing much utility. You don't want to overuse counters in a game like Smash anyways, even when the new one is encouraging it. It's too easy to punish when your opponent makes a good read.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

I've been practicing shulk, and wow he is really vulnerable when changing arts. I have the order memorized, but just standing there doing nothing while changing your art doesn't help to much. Besides for that, I think he is the best swordsman in the game, and even better than Robin, and maybe meta knight if in a great players hands, he has amazing potential.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Neutral special : Monado arts
Forward special : Jumping back slash
Upward special : Forward air slash
Downward special : Vision

That's if custom specials are not banned. How about you guys? Personally, I think buster and smash actually benefit from both jumping back slash and forward air slash

Why forward air slash. Regular airslash is perfectly fine!

 

[Berserker.]

Why forward air slash. Regular airslash is perfectly fine!

It works as a better recovery and it sends you forward so it's an all arou---

Oh wait. I forgot about the edgeguarding or regular air slash

Never mind

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't bother with the custom stuff to begin with.

 

[Masonomace]

Neutral special : Monado arts
Forward special : Jumping back slash
Upward special : Forward air slash
Downward special : Vision

That's if custom specials are not banned. How about you guys? Personally, I think buster and smash actually benefit from both jumping back slash and forward air slash

Shulk's Custom Moves have so much in-game variety, & his Arts's bonus effects increase / decrease his other Specials as well, that I wouldn't know what setup to go with 90% of the time. It would vary if I'm doing Singles, FFA, or Doubles. Which Neutral Special we'd choose affects what other Custom Moves we choose for all of Shulk's Specials. Hmmm. . . .
= MArts
= JBS
= SAS
= V

Why = This setup would be the go-to set to deal with all three situations: Singles Doubles & FFAs. MArts are so versatile we can opt to switch off to any others Arts given the situation & positioning in the match, not to mention we can cycle through MArts when being launched. JBS has a plethora of anti-air options to cover our frontal & backing space with several funky hit-boxes airborne & grounded for knocking foes away. SAS you can basically do the same thing with AS but a bit better if you have the right Art on to augment it's capabilities. OOS, edge-guarding, frame trapping, the recovery is higher as well, can be even higher with MAJ activated. V would be just fine for the Down Special option simply because we've neither seen DV nor PV's forwarded different input, so I'd opt to choose Vision for that extra input choice.

Again everyone's can be different just from what Arts players prefer to use, since all the Arts boosts can affect how well another Specials is used.
@ ~ Gheb ~ & @ Berserker.

Why forward air slash. Regular airslash is perfectly fine!

It works as a better recovery and it sends you forward so it's an all arou---

Oh wait. I forgot about the edgeguarding or regular air slash

Never mind

Both AS & FAS can edge-guard with or without the right Art activated against the right character. Except FAS edge-guards better than SAS & possibly AS. FAS practically guarantees it's 2nd slash, & the 2nd hit sends them at a horizontally straight-forward launching direction; something that neither SAS nor AS does, & can still be an effective edge-guarding tool if you have the Jump Art activated. Jump increases the first slash's vertical height, but not entirely sure if the forwarded dash is affected by Jump at all. FAS can easily recover back to the ledge if DI'ing towards it with Jump's increased air mobility. To say the least still, regular AS is fine. Shulk's Custom Moves come down to preference like most Custom Moves do.

 

[Jellyfishn]

Nair is godlike at low percents. And high percents. And mid percents. Who am I kidding, Nair is our best move.

But anyway, I know nair>dtilt/ftilt work in some situations where all the hits of jab wouldn't hit, so I feel it has its uses. Also mindgaming into a grab is a very good option.


Still haven't even tried custom moves yet really. :/

JUMPING WITH SHULK- Ways on how to be crafty with jump
Jump Shulk was initially one of the arts that didn't seem all that useful to other players. Jump basically increases Shulk's air mobility, falling speed (?) and mostly his jump height. On the down side, it increases damage taken by 22%. It's also stated that it reduces your weight but the exact value is unknown. Its uses seemed situational like Shield (Which, until then, is only used for stock tanking). However, lately, Jump actually had a lot of uses. But let's discuss one of its main functions and the first most Shulk players were thinking about. Starting of with some of its basic uses then we get crafty with its other uses

Monado jump helps Shulk in recovering back to the stage. The increase for Shulk's jump height is very helpful for this to the point that sometimes, you might not even need to use your recovery. Additionally, Monado jump increases Shulk's recovery height so overall, recovering with Shulk is much easier with Jump activated.

Another basic use for it is to escape ledge traps. Basically, you just use your jump height to escape these set ups. Make sure to carefully use your second jump while your escaping. Shulk doesn't have a lot of solid downward hitting attacks.

Lastly and definitely not the least, edgeguarding. Because of your jump height, it's safe to edgeguard most of the time because your recovery options are incredible with jump activated. You can use f-air, d-air, b-air and n-air to edgeguard thanks to their range and it also helps that your damage and knockback are not reduced when using jump.

Now that its basic uses were covered, let's go ahead to how you can be crafty with it

Covering space with Monado jump is incredibly helpful with Shulk. You can jump around and abuse your long ranged aerials while fast falling for as long as you land with n-air to avoid any landing lag. Additionally, you can even mix this up with grabbing. Fast falling with n-air or just fast falling period then grabbing the opponent then throwing them and pulling off a combo... Jump Shulk has a LOT of options when it comes to overwhelming his opponent. You, basically, can literally go anywhere with Jump Shulk. Going off stage and jumping back on stage. You can go anywhere with this art

It hasn't been brought up though since Smash Shulk was seen as the best "gimp" stance but Jump can also be used to gimp given which actually all stems back to how jump Shulk is actually great for edgeguarding. It's also the safest to gimp with since Shulk can easily recover back on stage. Yeah, this part wasn't saying much but it's also pretty important to take note of :|

Lastly, you can actually perform combos with Jump Shulk and this actually meshes well with edgeguarding and gimping with Jump Shulk. The method of doing it is fairly similar to Speed Shulk except you jump to the opponent instead of running to him. Not sure on what type of combos can you perform with Jump Shulk but there's a lot of potential I can see here. This needs to be further explored though but I'm 99.99% sure on this that you can actually perform

For a better reference than reading some wall of text, here are some videos that will probably convince you that what I'm typing isn't bull. Lol. In fact, these videos are actually the reason I made this write-up about Jump Shulk. Credit to @Trela

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCY92iqRuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTMY_PdeE0

Went back and read these comments about jump again after watching this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2otKszSluc

Seriously, jump is crazy useful, and I haven't really used it. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

 

[Neo Zero]

Nair is love. Nair is life.

Seriously, it basically covers anything around us, and very very few moves outrange.

I wish I could say the same of Dair. I think I've maybe used it once. Its so slow and the hitbox is pretty eh :l

 

[Masonomace]

**Updated the OP guys

But yeah the only issue I find with Nair being used by Shulk players is the level of spacing behind the move. It's cool that the Blade is the sweet-spot portion resembling Roy's metagame from Melee, but the Beam & its tipper are recommended for Nair, & when I see Shulks land with Nair without the proper space, they get shield+grabbed all day. Still, Nair is hotness.

Neutral Special: Monado Arts/Decisive Monado Arts
Forward Special: Jumping Back Slash
Upwards Special: Forward Air Slash
Downward Special: Vision

Now for explanations. Decisive Monado Arts could be very useful. Having an extra 4 seconds to stay in each form is fairly long. It's true that you can't deactivate them, but this encourages you to plan ahead and make wiser decisions. Getting the absolute most of each Monado Art. If you're stuck in Smash after a KO, either avoid your opponent, use Shulk's range and high knockback to play keepaway, or maybe even come up with some 0% combos. (I've been wondering if Smash would combo great from 0% since the knockback might make more possible.) Lastly, because Shulk has to deactivate his current monado art to switch arts, this can leave you vulnerable when using his regular arts. Decisive Monado Arts encourages a more active playstyle. (In fact, some of the best Shulk's I have seen spend very little time switching arts. Focusing more on spacing, and waiting for a safe opportunity to switch arts.)

As for Jumping Back Slash. Visually, it looked quicker to me. If it has less ending lag, I will definitely use it. Can anyone confirm if its recovery frames are the same as the original? If so, I'll stick with the original.

Forward Air Slash is great for better horizontal recovery and almost guarantees the second hit will connect. Plus, it looks damn awesome.

I think I'll stick with the original Vision. Powerful Vision has amazing KO potential, but depending on the attack you counter, opponent's can proceed to hit you out of it or shield it. Not very useful then. Dash Vision is cool, but so weak that I don't see it providing much utility. You don't want to overuse counters in a game like Smash anyways, even when the new one is encouraging it. It's too easy to punish when your opponent makes a good read.

I dig your Custom Move setup preference. I missed it by half a day but yeah, DMArts can be useful solely for the 4+ seconds added to the Art's longevity. For my particular tastes in Custom Moves I'd consider DMArts for Doubles absolutely but not as much for Singles. +4 seconds is huge & actively playing without needing to micro-manage switching Arts out keeps you focused & less worried, but the ability to switch Arts off & on-the-go is detrimental to Shulk's game-play, especially when losing Neutral Game struggling to regain stage control with a DMArt you started with 5 seconds ago stuck with using it for another 15 seconds. For the Smash situation it'd be an advantage if Shulk's % health wasn't dangerously high, but the alternative to Smash's setbacks could save you the trouble of being combo'd into throw > aerials that Star KO you, or the flipside would be that Smash could help them combo to death you.

JBS covers anti-air forwarding approaches or disengages from the front or behind that JBS feels like the more preferred choice. JBS can be augmented by the Arts' effects so JBS with Jump on can make the move's jump height even higher covering more air than before; same can be said for Speed increasing the forwarded moving dash Shulk does in a diagonal direction while coming down covering horizontal distance.
For your question, I can confirm that JBS's landing lag recovering is slower than regular BS. I can't prove it to you with actual Frame Data, but the difference between the two moves is his leg bent when trying to stand up. The start-up of JBS seems faster than BS, but the trade-off of JBS coming out a little faster than EBS or BS is that JBS's recovery ending lag is slower than BS but not EBS.
Fastest start-up: JBS > BS > EBS
Fastest ending lag: BS > JBS > EBS
Hope that helps.

FAS's 2nd hit also sends them flying at a horizontal straight-away launch, so edge'guarding with FAS is a threat.

Powerful Vision's blue orb-like zone doesn't slow the opponent down like Vision & Dash Vision do, so PV becomes less useful automatically. Generally all counters like you said shouldn't be used too much, but we also don't know if the CUstom Move Visions have a different input of making the attacks do more knockback & deal % damage like Vision does with it's dashing forward slash.

 

[Neo Zero]

@ Masonomace excellent work my friend

 

[Masonomace]

I've been practicing shulk, and wow he is really vulnerable when changing arts. I have the order memorized, but just standing there doing nothing while changing your art doesn't help to much. Besides for that, I think he is the best swordsman in the game, and even better than Robin, and maybe meta knight if in a great players hands, he has amazing potential.

This reminded me to edit the OP, but Shulk is able to switch / change arts on the fly. You can even press B to change arts as you're getting off of hitstun in mid-launch on or off-screen. So if you have trouble changing Arts, think about jumping while cycling through them. Another tactic can be you cycling through them, then after knowing the one you want & putting it on as the Kanji character floats over Shulk, sit in your shield to allow your Art to activate & roll away if you see them dash+grab.
Regardless, I can agree, Shulk & the Monado make Shulk's swordsman play-style more appealing & a mix between all of them.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nair isn't our single best move. Bair and fair are good, especially when we finally get access to a c-stick. Jab and [pivot] grab ar important options for every character to have and fortunately Shulk does have a good jab and a good grab / throw game. All his tilts are good. Up Special and Neutral Special are good moves. Down Special can be devastating. Shulk has broad and versatile moveset and a strong ground game.

 

[Berserker.]

Nair isn't our single best move. Bair and fair are good, especially when we finally get access to a c-stick. Jab and [pivot] grab ar important options for every character to have and fortunately Shulk does have a good jab and a good grab / throw game. All his tilts are good. Up Special and Neutral Special are good moves. Down Special can be devastating. Shulk has broad and versatile moveset and a strong ground game.

I haven't heard much from b-air or f-air but they seem really good anyway.

Can you make anything out of his forward special?

Is it actually useful for anything but punishing?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I haven't made any attempt at implementing side B into my gameplay yet.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Is Shulk's jab fast enough where he can jab the opponent and then grab? I know you can do that with Ike, so I was wondering due to the similarities it could be done with Shulk.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Jab -> grab is never a guaranteed combo for any character. Shulk can jab cancel into grab but it's very hard for me to perform on the 3DS so most of the time I just finish the whole jab combo.

One last word on Shulk's jab since we're on the subject: Shulk has an auto-jab, a mechanic that was first used in Brawl for some characters [Mario, Wolf, Snake, Ike, ...]. It allows you to repeatedly perform the first jab over and over in very rapid succession. All you have to do is to keep the A-Button pressed with no hurtbox / item around. Use this against opponents that like to spotdodge a lot. They will get hit by the first jab as soon as their invincibility wears off and then the rest of the jab combo will trigger automatically. This is the easiest an most consistent way to punish spotdodges which seems to be something new players seem to struggle with a lot.

 

[Solfiner]

I wouldn't bother with the custom stuff to begin with.

I agree with this. I have this feeling that customs will be banned in tournaments (That's for another thread though), and since only the default specials are allowed in for glory, the go to place for practicing characters and match-ups imo, I think it would be better to get used to default Shulk and try to optimize that playstyle.

I wouldn't be against the idea of customs being allowed though, not at all.

 

[Masonomace]

Out of Shulk's aerials I'm gonna have to go with Nair being the best aerial. The landing lag is the least out of them all you were to SHFF an aerial, not to mention Nair's around-the-world hit-box coverage is stupid. I have a few good points to bring along with the OP updated with Topics to discuss.

Was everyone here aware that Shulk's Bthrow made the opponent launched with their back facing us? That may as well promote the thought of using Back Slash as a follow-up plausible to try. Also:

Is Shulk's jab fast enough where he can jab the opponent and then grab? I know you can do that with Ike, so I was wondering due to the similarities it could be done with Shulk.

Jab cancels seem much harder to do but still do-able, unless there's IASA frames on Shulk's Jab1 or Jab2 to make it easier.

Jab -> grab is never a guaranteed combo for any character. Shulk can jab cancel into grab but it's very hard for me to perform on the 3DS so most of the time I just finish the whole jab combo.

One last word on Shulk's jab since we're on the subject: Shulk has an auto-jab, a mechanic that was first used in Brawl for some characters [Mario, Wolf, Snake, Ike, ...]. It allows you to repeatedly perform the first jab over and over in very rapid succession. All you have to do is to keep the A-Button pressed with no hurtbox / item around. Use this against opponents that like to spotdodge a lot. They will get hit by the first jab as soon as their invincibility wears off and then the rest of the jab combo will trigger automatically. This is the easiest an most consistent way to punish spotdodges which seems to be something new players seem to struggle with a lot.

Jab canceling is easier doing Jab1 > grab, or Jab1 > Jab2 > grab?
And oh my, I did notice Trela doing auto-jab versus Denti but I originally thought he performed a Command Walk, which if Shulk had a Command Walk, then Brawl Ike Syndrome all day. The problem is inputting that on a 3DS. . .

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Bair's Beam tipper is a longer range than Nair & Fair. Bair tipped has some serious range.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

This reminded me to edit the OP, but Shulk is able to switch / change arts on the fly. You can even press B to change arts as you're getting off of hitstun in mid-launch on or off-screen. So if you have trouble changing Arts, think about jumping while cycling through them. Another tactic can be you cycling through them, then after knowing the one you want & putting it on as the Kanji character floats over Shulk, sit in your shield to allow your Art to activate & roll away if you see them dash+grab.
Regardless, I can agree, Shulk & the Monado make Shulk's swordsman play-style more appealing & a mix between all of them.

I know that, but say changing into shield when at a high percentage can be difficult at times, especially against a smart player

 

[Berserker.]

I know that, but say changing into shield when at a high percentage can be difficult at times, especially against a smart player

I think that's why most players when they try to activate a Monado art safely (or not)...

1) Create some distance between them and their opponent then switch
2) Just switch quickly at the start of a match
3) When sent flying, switch to the art
4) Just switch. Period

 

[Masonomace]

I know that, but say changing into shield when at a high percentage can be difficult at times, especially against a smart player

Assuming the easy scenario of KO'ing the opponent, that's an asap switch-off & on moment. As for mid-battle & several inputs are being pressed per second between the both of you, create that space & switch basically what berserk said above me. If you've played from Brawl you'll have no trouble with Art switching. You got this.

 

[FlareHabanero]

When it comes to Monado Arts, I think not only activating the correct one important, but also deactivating it. Like in the case of Shield, I would recommend only using it as insurence so that you can safely return to the stage after being launched. As soon as the goal is achieved, deactivate it so you don't get hindered by the slow speed and reduced power.

 

[Berserker.]

I think buster is actually fine to use at high percentages. With the rage mechanic which is only slight (not a big deal) but beneficial regardless, this sort of (by a bit) alleviates the whole hitsun problem. Of course, defensive play is encouraged

Oh and if you actually do well with buster, you can build a quick lead from that

 

[Masonomace]

When it comes to Monado Arts, I think not only activating the correct one important, but also deactivating it. Like in the case of Shield, I would recommend only using it as insurence so that you can safely return to the stage after being launched. As soon as the goal is achieved, deactivate it so you don't get hindered by the slow speed and reduced power.

This is going to be a very noted tactic for EMArts, since the time window will be too short including the boosts & setbacks becoming so extreme they'd be dangerous to keep on that moment for any longer. It's the insane version of what you posted, but practicing Art salvation to Art disengaging is wise nonetheless.

EDIT: We do have 5 Arts afterall, we could switch off to on 3 different Arts in a ten second window & still be fine.

I think buster is actually fine to use at high percentages. With the rage mechanic which is only slight (not a big deal) but beneficial regardless, this sort of (by a bit) alleviates the whole hitsun problem. Of course, defensive play is encouraged

Oh and if you actually do well with buster, you can build a quick lead from that

Define high percentanges. I'm thinking you mean a % higher than 70 lower than 120. But yeah, Rage plus Buster is relatively safe at that point of the match. Beam will majorly be safe while Blade can be opt to be almost safe for extra % damage & the KB behind it.

 

[Neo Zero]

When it comes to Monado Arts, I think not only activating the correct one important, but also deactivating it. Like in the case of Shield, I would recommend only using it as insurence so that you can safely return to the stage after being launched. As soon as the goal is achieved, deactivate it so you don't get hindered by the slow speed and reduced power.

Bad idea. Seriously, being in Shield for even a second off stage seems to be guranteed death. I'm fairly sure the range Air Slash moves is reduced with it on (it sure feels like it anyway). Gimping Shield Shulk is hilariously easy.

 

[Masonomace]

Bad idea. Seriously, being in Shield for even a second off stage seems to be guranteed death. I'm fairly sure the range Air Slash moves is reduced with it on (it sure feels like it anyway). Gimping Shield Shulk is hilariously easy.

I believe Soul was mentioning when being hit during Shield that you'd try recovering back what little distance there is due to the increased durability Shield grants. But other than that yeah no doubt. It's painfully obvious how sulking I feel when Shulking is gimped.

 

[Berserker.]

Bad idea. Seriously, being in Shield for even a second off stage seems to be guranteed death. I'm fairly sure the range Air Slash moves is reduced with it on (it sure feels like it anyway). Gimping Shield Shulk is hilariously easy.

Actually, I think I'm getting where he's coming from. Using shield off stage might actually reduce the current launch strength you're taking so maybe it's not that useless. Of course, you should quickly switch to jump when that happens but that might take a while.

Then again, it's actually not a bad idea and I'm fully aware about Shield Shulk being easy to edgeguard


Edit: Might

 

[Solfiner]

I have always seen Shield as a stalling method more than anything. A way to get some extra damage in before getting KO'ed. Can't wait to try Shulk out when I get my copy.

 

[Neo Zero]

Actually, I think I'm getting where he's coming from. Using shield off stage might actually reduce the current launch strength you're taking so maybe it's not that useless. Of course, you should quickly switch to jump when that happens but that might take a while.

Then again, it's actually not a bad idea and I'm fully aware about Shield Shulk being easy to edgeguard

In your scenario there's a problem. You can't switch Arts while in hitstun. An art CAN be activated however.

For example, say I'm going to go to Shield. I press it twice and am currently on speed and get hit offstage. While I'm in the hitstun from the move, I'm pressing the button. However, instead of cycling to Shield, I stay on speed. The second expires, and speed activates, me unable to have switched to shield. The only way your idea could work is if you were on the Shield Kanji ahead of time.

 

[Berserker.]

In your scenario there's a problem. You can't switch Arts while in hitstun. An art CAN be activated however.

For example, say I'm going to go to Shield. I press it twice and am currently on speed and get hit offstage. While I'm in the hitstun from the move, I'm pressing the button. However, instead of cycling to Shield, I stay on speed. The second expires, and speed activates, me unable to have switched to shield. The only way your idea could work is if you were on the Shield Kanji ahead of time.

D'oh. Right. Forgot about the hitsun. My bad

Oh and regarding air slash's recovery distance being reduced, yeah. It's definitely reduced. I think shield can start getting knocked around when you're about 180-185%+ so it might be best to either

a) Don't use shield and use another art that's mobile (jump or speed) OR risk it and use buster
b) Stay with shield, grit, grind and good luck if you get knocked off stage

 

[Masonomace]

To be cycling through Arts in mid-battle & getting hit only to have timed an Art to be a read ahead of time, "oop, I'm gonna get hit, better switch to Shield" is pretty humorous being a "hey cool" moment. I find that eh unless your shield bubble is low, you have no stage control, & not simply able to fall to the ledge to plank without intangibility.

At that point, I'd beg to be hit off-stage with Shield held over my head in advance, then find a ledge-guard breaking strategy to counter-act the aggression off-stage.

 

[Berserker.]

To be cycling through Arts in mid-battle & getting hit only to have timed an Art to be a read ahead of time, "oop, I'm gonna get hit, better switch to Shield" is pretty humorous being a "hey cool" moment. I find that eh unless your shield bubble is low, you have no stage control, & not simply able to fall to the ledge to plank without intangibility.

At that point, I'd beg to be hit off-stage with Shield held over my head in advance, then find a ledge-guard breaking strategy to counter-act the aggression off-stage.

That's some serious reading or predicting you're gonna have to do then

but then again, when I see videos of people forgetting that Luma existed and easily falls for the shield bait, this isn't really a bad idea

 

[Masonomace]

That's some serious reading or predicting you're gonna have to do then

but then again, when I see videos of people forgetting that Luma existed and easily falls for the shield bait, this isn't really a bad idea

Even if it wasn't a Rosaluma scenario of trapping yourself in that mess, a Shulk who's OOS options is risk because small shield, no options being on the end of the stage, you're limited to the few options left:

1. Rolling & getting read, followed by a turn around punish to scoop your ending intangibility.

2. Jumping & even double jumping if you need that much disengage space to cycle through the Art you need & get out of there. The Art that would get you out would be mobility-based like you've said a while ago being Jump, Speed, or Shield.

3. Sit in position & turtle the ledge due to being scared of #1, & feeling nervous to jump that high losing your DJ if you were to be launched away mid-air with no recovery except your AS & the Jump Art you're desperately switching to.

 

[Berserker.]

Even if it wasn't a Rosaluma scenario of trapping yourself in that mess, a Shulk who's OOS options is risk because small shield, no options being on the end of the stage, you're limited to the few options left:

1. Rolling & getting read, followed by a turn around punish to scoop your ending intangibility.

2. Jumping & even double jumping if you need that much disengage space to cycle through the Art you need & get out of there. The Art that would get you out would be mobility-based like you've said a while ago being Jump, Speed, or Shield.

3. Sit in position & turtle the ledge due to being scared of #1, & feeling nervous to jump that high losing your DJ if you were to be launched away mid-air with no recovery except your AS & the Jump Art you're desperately switching to.

Or.... You can grab

Or vision counter and hope to not get grabbed

Or actually, just do number 3 because lol


Not sure about the OoS Counter or grab

 

[Masonomace]

Or.... You can grab

Or vision counter and hope to not get grabbed

Or actually, just do number 3 because lol


Not sure about the OoS Counter or grab

#3 of Sitting & turtling basically opens up all dat you posted, so all good. Holding ground & making a surprise grab can work. VIsion Counter only if you have foresight.
OoSV works fairly well, I'm still in awe of Trela performing it, reminding me of the Brawl Lucario OoSJCDT option I loved doing.

If Boost Grabbing is a thing in Sm4sh then our grab game only improves even more.

 

[Berserker.]

You know what'd be cool?

DACUS with Shulk. Not confirmed but I wanna try it. Lol

 

[Solfiner]

You know what'd be cool?

DACUS with Shulk. Not confirmed but I wanna try it. Lol

DACUS inputs on a 3DS? Poor 3DS.

 

[Berserker.]

DACUS inputs on a 3DS? Poor 3DS.

Once I get the Wii U version, of course

 

[Masonomace]

You know what'd be cool?

DACUS with Shulk. Not confirmed but I wanna try it. Lol

BDACUS with Speed Art activated. Oh my Arceus I don't wanna versus Shulk anymore. Stage-wide approaches.

Then the 3DS break--s
EDIT in mid-sentence: 'd technically by @ Solfiner

No worries, I'm getting SmashWiiU, so, all my AT inputs will go justly.

 

[Berserker.]

BDACUS with Speed Art activated. Oh my Arceus I don't wanna versus Shulk anymore. Stage-wide approaches.

Then the 3DS break--s
EDIT in mid-sentence: 'd technically by @ Solfiner

No worries, I'm getting SmashWiiU, so, all my AT inputs will go justly.

Things I'll try out

- BDACUS/DACUS
- Stutter stepping smash attacks
- Stutter stepping back slash
- Interrupting back slash animation somehow with any move
- Mashing the B button in any scenario (Shielding, getting grabbed, getting hit, swimming, drowning, free fall, taunting)
- Buster with range mechanic
- Speed + DACUS
- Speed + any universal tech
- D throw combos
- Attempting to slide across the stage with speed somehow