Berserker.
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Yeeeeah... I'd edit the 2nd line out if I were you
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Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Masonomace
- Start date
LordTakeo
Master of Mediocre
Edited, done, everything is fine now. <3
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
So I played a lot of FG & I was doing this mix-up-worthy-yet-punishable option:
F-air is freakin amazing when Beam spaced especially when MArt Landing Cancel is involved with retreating Pivot Grabbing. B-air is still my godsend, & U-air is still underrated for me but I try using it upon landing. I don't quite remember how it felt, but Speed mode's SH > U-air seemed pretty good for two reasons:
Ledge-hang » ledge-drop » DI'd DoubleJump towards the stage » F-air » buffered Air Slash upon landing
I guess that F-air in this moment has some kind of IASA frames upon landing (or maybe it doesn't). The timing isn't completely buffering every input because you won't even look like you're touching the ground & you doing Air Slash that early makes noticeably easy. This little mix-up tactic requires some specific timing here & there. Meh.
F-air is freakin amazing when Beam spaced especially when MArt Landing Cancel is involved with retreating Pivot Grabbing. B-air is still my godsend, & U-air is still underrated for me but I try using it upon landing. I don't quite remember how it felt, but Speed mode's SH > U-air seemed pretty good for two reasons:
- Speed is so quick air & ground-wise we can follow the opponent's air speed & watch where they might land & make a read
- Short Hop is really short, but the U-air still gets both hits out right before landing aka this is frame-trapping awesomeness (It's gotta be buffered, but too quick will make you mis-input it for JC U-smash)
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DavemanCozy
Smash Photographer
Sheeeet, vectoring is gone.
This is now a real smash game. Which means it's gonna be hard to break the habit of vectoring after one month of playing nearly every day.
No DACUS kinda sucks, but at least his running [pivot] U-smash is gawd-like.
This is now a real smash game. Which means it's gonna be hard to break the habit of vectoring after one month of playing nearly every day.
No DACUS kinda sucks, but at least his running [pivot] U-smash is gawd-like.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
No vectoring means no living 'till 200%. But Shield mode on means living 'till 200% anyways so yeah
Also, this wonderful SOURCE kudos to @Dantarion & @Thinkaman helps everyone to the max. It has most of Shulk's damages as well as all of the characters. I'll input these numbers in the tables when I get a chance today (can't right now).
Also, this wonderful SOURCE kudos to @Dantarion & @Thinkaman helps everyone to the max. It has most of Shulk's damages as well as all of the characters. I'll input these numbers in the tables when I get a chance today (can't right now).
Leeyam
Smash Apprentice
Thinking of picking up Shulk and I'm really curious about his mobility since slow characters really frustrate me. I've read that his ground moves are pretty laggy and affect his mobility, even though his nair autocancels (I think).
How much of a drawback is Shulk's lack of mobility? Is it a glaring weakness?
How much of a drawback is Shulk's lack of mobility? Is it a glaring weakness?
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Shulk is mediocre in the mobility department; the Monado Arts is what affects your mobility mostly. You have Jump Speed & Shield that affect your mobility stats & if you don't favor slow characters then Jump or Speed is for you. The drawback to Shulk's mobility can be compensated for the MArts like I said but again, the choice is yours.
Recap of the MArt's basic effects:
Jump = You're not faster on the ground, but you travel faster through the air than normal. You also fall faster naturally as well.
Speed = You're faster on the ground & in the air than normal, but Jump height is reduced so it affects your vertical recovery performance. Mighty Air Slash helps solve your issue since it's high vertical recovery.
Shield = Your everything-mobility is reduced, including your air speed. You'll basically be using buffered Dash Attacks out of dash & dodge rolling to get around quicker on the ground. This is especially true if you have on stronger versions of MArts such as DMArts & HMArts. And because your everything-mobility is reduced, Advancing Air Slash helps because it's vertical & horizontal combined.
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meleebrawler
Smash Hero
Should also note that if you activate Jump in the air, the
extra air mobility won't kick in until you jump or land.
DMarts Shield doesn't actually make you slower than regular
Arts, but you are stuck in it for longer as you cannot switch.
Berserker.
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Shield makes you really slow in both ground and air speed
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
I know, but the way Masonomace put it in his post made
it seem as if DMarts Shield made you move slower than
default Shield.
Berserker.
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Ah I see. Well, you're correct on that. DShield isn't slower than Normal shield
ALSO, FF f-air buster is safe.... most of the time
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FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
On the Super Smash Bros. Wiki page it mentions that Shulk's up tilt attack got a range nerf. Can anyone create a comparison, because I haven't noticed any differences myself.
Berserker.
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This is the same wiki that claimed that Smash art reduces defense so....
Whoever has the Wii U version should probably check though but since you're doubting it or you're not feeling anything, I guess it's probably or at least a negligible nerf
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FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Not as bad as Dark Pit, where flat out incorrect information was put on the Dark Pit (SSB4) page for a surprising amount of time.
Anyway, I asked that mainly because I'm going to include the information people found for Shulk and Ike, and I wanted clarfication on that up tilt detail.
DavemanCozy
Smash Photographer
You're a brave one for going to SSBWiki with information. Most of the time, you get debates started with people just by rewording something.
I used to edit ssbwiki too, until another contributor tried started an argument with me about "Roy not being a clone." I quit right then and there. But if there are smashers here contributing, I might go back to it.
I used to edit ssbwiki too, until another contributor tried started an argument with me about "Roy not being a clone." I quit right then and there. But if there are smashers here contributing, I might go back to it.
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
That's a bit odd because yesterday I was airdodging during Jump's activation & I got the better falling speed & air speed almost instantly.
I apologize for the DShield mistake @
Leeyam
, @
meleebrawler
cleared that one up. I forgot DMArts don't have stronger drawbacks (personally I think that's the best part about DMArts).Also the C-stick feature for the Classic / GameCube makes the Air hunting with F-air > B-air's front-ward hit-box combo real & it's sexy to pull off. Jump mode obviously makes this fantastic since the air speed allows you to be in aerial range at all times given their current %.
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AlvisCPU
Smash Ace
Y'know, I actually did get the impression of a range reduction at one point. I then thought it must've been my imagination.
-----------------------------------
I'm attending my first ever tournament on Tuesday (for Smash 3DS since I'm still waiting for Wii U release) in one of the organised Smash Club events.
The ruleset this particular group of people have set up allows customs (not equipment, of course) and Omega stages, FD, Battlefield, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Arena Ferox, and Prism Tower.
I'm just after thoughts and opinions on a few things:
1) What stages naturally lend to or harm Shulk's playstyle? I'm so used to playing Omega stages that I've not put much thought into stages with any complexity. When choosing stages, I'll obviously have to be considering who my opponent has chosen, but I'd like to know if there are certain elements I should look for.
2) Custom moves - I should probably make some decisions on this so I can get to practicing. I'm certainly using Power Vision, because that's insane. I don't really like Decisive Arts because I'm not decisive ever. I might have a regular and Hyper set, but I'm pretty inexperienced with Hyper Arts. Any advice? What kinds of moves do you guys like using?
3) Do Final Destination and Omega stages have any difference? I didn't think so but the way they've worded the ruleset makes it sound like there are.
sakuraZaKi
The Ultimate Sore Loser ♡
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Here's what I can tell you, and anyone feel free to fill in:
1) This is pretty 101 for most close quarters characters, but flat stages favor projectile characters over Shulk. While Speed and Jump can probably kill the distance, it doesn't last forever. Platform stages like Battlefield work nicely so you have options to approach with.
3) Some Omega stages have flat sides compared to FD's slanted one. I don't know the implications of each though.
I don't use any custom moves, so I can't say much there.
1) This is pretty 101 for most close quarters characters, but flat stages favor projectile characters over Shulk. While Speed and Jump can probably kill the distance, it doesn't last forever. Platform stages like Battlefield work nicely so you have options to approach with.
3) Some Omega stages have flat sides compared to FD's slanted one. I don't know the implications of each though.
I don't use any custom moves, so I can't say much there.
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Berserker.
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1) Shulk isn't really that good in Final destination/Omega stages. Anything with a platform is of help for Shulk
2) I stopped using customs for now until its legal but... Decisive arts is good if you're fully dedicating to speed (or jump). If you're really feeling it, you can switch to decisive for decisive buster which is really useful against characters that suck ass against sword characters. Hyper arts is mostly for those that only need Monado arts for a short time. The drawbacks are much more extreme and because of the duration, you're forced to be a bit more offensive. The pay off here is that smash art kills at ridiculously lower %'s. With vectoring gone, HSmash U-tilt is even more dangerous. The rest of the arts are a bit hard to talk about because DAMN, some awesome buffs and those draw backs.... HBuster could go either way but I'd only use it if I'm sure I can land a grab before it activates (And also HBuster d-tilt is amazing). HJump is strictly for recovering. Idk about HShield lol. HSpeed would be great but the damage output is piss poor. If I were you, I'd probably play it safe and stick with Default Moando arts. Just imo.
3) Not sure here
Buster 1.04 is really good guys. Mid-range play is solid, n-air hits hard (not really hard but double digits), it's safer on shields (FF f-air on shield and tipper n-air on shield mostly) and dat damage output. I've spent more time with buster than with other arts. Defensive play or mid range play feels more rewarding. Also, eating shields with buster's damage is hilarious
Speed 1.04 is amazing. The damage is on par or nearly on par 1.03 Vanilla Shulk.... Just the thought of that... Holy crap.
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Scarhi
Smash Cadet
1) I actually find Omega stages not to be that bad for Shulk especially if you use Jump for approaching onstage along with Speed. Platforms seem to neutralize most approaches with Jump since a SH will actually make you land on the platform, putting you in a bad position. It kind of depends on the match-up though, platforms and smaller stages do make it easier for us to apply pressure
2) I mostly stick to Default because there hasn't been any custom-legal tournament here in France so far, but I've been messing around with Hyper Arts and they seem to be good against characters who can't get back to neutral too easily. (HBuster, HSmash and Hjump should really shine when you're about to edgeguard/juggle/trap a landing)
I haven't tried Decisive Arts yet. ^^
3) Some Omega stages give more recovery options to characters who can walljump because of the walls under the ledges. (and Omega Pictochat makes it harder to see Greninja's Shadow Sneak coming, if anything)
Berserker.
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Omega stages aren't bad for Shulk. It's just that he doesn't benefit much from flat stages.
Also, some stuff about buster art
Some of Shulk's attacks become safe on shield thanks to Buster's damage (plus Shulk's high vanilla damage). FF F-air is safe. Tipper b-air is safe and it even slightly pushes back shielded opponents. N-air (Tipped) is safe. Not sure about Base n-air. F-tilt tipped is safe. D-tilt is also safe if tipped
His tilts become really useful because while having incredible range, his damage output is nuts. F-tilt hits 16/18% damage and has good range. His u-tilt is a solid anti-air which deals 9/11% damage. D-tilt also becomes incredibly good in buster. It has a big hitbox, it deals 9% damage tipped and 12% damage with the base. VERY good spacing tool for Shulk especially since damaging with buster requires spacing. His smash attacks hit hard with Buster. Because of the sheer damage, his smash attacks deal a lot of damage on shield also. Main problem with his smash attacks is that they're still unsafe even with the pushback on shield
Vision with buster is.... eh. At lower %'s, you're just asking to be punished. If you really want to optimize vision+buster, you're better off moving the control stick forward because it deals more damage and knockback plus it sends them backwards so you'll be far from the opponent
Grabbing with buster is also amazing. You get so much damage out of just one throw...
Also, some stuff about buster art
Some of Shulk's attacks become safe on shield thanks to Buster's damage (plus Shulk's high vanilla damage). FF F-air is safe. Tipper b-air is safe and it even slightly pushes back shielded opponents. N-air (Tipped) is safe. Not sure about Base n-air. F-tilt tipped is safe. D-tilt is also safe if tipped
His tilts become really useful because while having incredible range, his damage output is nuts. F-tilt hits 16/18% damage and has good range. His u-tilt is a solid anti-air which deals 9/11% damage. D-tilt also becomes incredibly good in buster. It has a big hitbox, it deals 9% damage tipped and 12% damage with the base. VERY good spacing tool for Shulk especially since damaging with buster requires spacing. His smash attacks hit hard with Buster. Because of the sheer damage, his smash attacks deal a lot of damage on shield also. Main problem with his smash attacks is that they're still unsafe even with the pushback on shield
Vision with buster is.... eh. At lower %'s, you're just asking to be punished. If you really want to optimize vision+buster, you're better off moving the control stick forward because it deals more damage and knockback plus it sends them backwards so you'll be far from the opponent
Grabbing with buster is also amazing. You get so much damage out of just one throw...
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AlvisCPU
Smash Ace
Surprisingly, I hadn't considered that the projectile users Shulk has issues with have the most to gain from flat stages. I'll keep that in mind I think with platform stages it'll be better if I'm below the opponent since Shulk doesn't have many attacks that hit low from the air (dair doesn't have the horizontal reach, nair and fair don't really have the vertical reach. It's what he has though so I play it carefully.) I don't really fight on-stage with Jump because I'm not sure of the situations it works for and I fear the extra damage.
I played around with Hyper Arts this afternoon. I think it's something I'd warm more to if I was better. I'm alright at them but the shortened time means you've really got to make the most of them immediately.
Also, yeah, the modified Buster is great. I don't have to worry so much about accidentally getting myself wrecked.
Thanks for the tips, guys! Hopefully it works out well.
I think with platform stages it'll be better if I'm below the opponent since Shulk doesn't have many attacks that hit low from the air (dair doesn't have the horizontal reach, nair and fair don't really have the vertical reach. It's what he has though so I play it carefully.) I don't really fight on-stage with Jump because I'm not sure of the situations it works for and I fear the extra damage.I played around with Hyper Arts this afternoon. I think it's something I'd warm more to if I was better. I'm alright at them but the shortened time means you've really got to make the most of them immediately.
Also, yeah, the modified Buster is great. I don't have to worry so much about accidentally getting myself wrecked.
Thanks for the tips, guys! Hopefully it works out well.
PokemonyeWest
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone start a match by immediately going into a MArt, and if so which one? I usually go straight to Speed. Dash > SH Nair when used in conjunction with that MArt can punish most characters that start the match off with a projectile, like Link's arrows or Diddy's banana
Berserker.
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Which one to start with? It depends on the character. Some people go speed against fast characters. Some people prefer to go with buster. Speed is a must against zoners most of the time
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NairWizard
Somewhere
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I posted this in the character competitive impressions thread, posting here again:
Starfall11
Smash Journeyman
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I've been away from these forums for several days, so I won't be able to stay up to date anymore. (Busiest time in grad school + twenty great games coming out).
But I just wanted to share my impressions of Shulk in the WiiU version. As soon as I switched to a gamecube controller and played on my big screen TV, I felt a huge difference.
After the buff from 1.04, and the better control the Gamecube controller lends itself to, I feel I'm easily 1.5 times better with Shulk. Before I had a 60-70% win rate on For Glory. Now I'm winning against friends who gave me a difficult time before. Spacing with Shulk's aerials and controlling his mobility is so much easier in the WiiU Version. He's easily upper-mid/low-high tier.
But I just wanted to share my impressions of Shulk in the WiiU version. As soon as I switched to a gamecube controller and played on my big screen TV, I felt a huge difference.
After the buff from 1.04, and the better control the Gamecube controller lends itself to, I feel I'm easily 1.5 times better with Shulk. Before I had a 60-70% win rate on For Glory. Now I'm winning against friends who gave me a difficult time before. Spacing with Shulk's aerials and controlling his mobility is so much easier in the WiiU Version. He's easily upper-mid/low-high tier.
Berserker.
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Berserker.
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idk. Things with no hitboxes. I guess
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
They're probably the hitboxes for specials.
Berserker.
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I'm not sure if the blade/beam hitbox is right. I'm starting to think it's just the tip of Shulk's attacks that deal less damage than the beam imo. I've been unsure for quite a while but now, I think I'm right about this. This occured to me when I kept abusing buster FF f-air.
Some testing would be nice because I can't test it atm. Then again, I'm not sure but if I'm right, it's more of a good thing for us than a bad thing to take note of.
Some testing would be nice because I can't test it atm. Then again, I'm not sure but if I'm right, it's more of a good thing for us than a bad thing to take note of.
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who wrote that
i looked at jab and already there was multiple errors
throw it away, its garbage, and the person who wrote it up can't read the data properly
Edit: hold on i was reading captain falcon's data
it's still wrong anyway though by like a frame each because that's not how asynchronous timers work
i looked at jab and already there was multiple errors
throw it away, its garbage, and the person who wrote it up can't read the data properly
Edit: hold on i was reading captain falcon's data
it's still wrong anyway though by like a frame each because that's not how asynchronous timers work
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Berserker.
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pls check edit <3
Berserker.
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On it already
I don't have the time now to do it though lolol
Edit: WTF. Trela KO'd Sheik at 102% with default smash u-tilt.... WAT
I don't have the time now to do it though lolol
Edit: WTF. Trela KO'd Sheik at 102% with default smash u-tilt.... WAT
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
I out of whim replaced the term sweet-spot for Blade & the sour-spot for Beam, so yeah the entire Beam in most of Shulk's attacks aren't actually the entire hit-area to deal that damage. There was moves like Back Slash, D-smash, & U-air that looked very correct within the Blade & Beam locations of those attacks in v1.0.3 though. I'll be replacing those terms in the tables when I can, since it is text-deceiving.
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Zephil
Smash Ace
where you saw that?
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Smash mode's KB being unchanged was a lie.
Berserker.
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Sky's invitational stream
Wii U version. It helps that vectoring is dead and the blast zones are smaller
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
More like Smash working like intended due to the knockback increases.
Maybe it was just me, but previously I felt it often times fell flat.
Maybe it was just me, but previously I felt it often times fell flat.