Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[ChronoPenguin]

If im not off, Speed Shulk has the fastest walk regardless of mode relative to everyone else and it is about Pits Dash in speed.

 

[erico9001]

So I was trying to figure out the counter...

Okay so my first question is does counter deal more knockback/damage?
Ness PK Bomb fully charged -> Shulk's counter -> Ness. Middle of FD
46% damage, ohko

Ness PK Bomb fully charged -> Toon Link (the other 3ds does not have Ness unlocked, Toon Link is right below Ness in weight). Middle of FD.
38% damage, barely any knockback (seriously like nothing)

So... interesting. The knockback was VASTLY increased (from barely moving an inch to Ohko). Damage was increased by 8% or 21%.
Just in case you don't know, damage is constant per character (and just to be sure I tested that too lol)

So how much does it increase damage? Is it a constant addition, a constant multiplication, both, exponential, or something even more complex?

Sheik's needle is good for testing both knockback and damage. 2% damage.

Shulk's counter to one needle does 10% damage. It also added 8% damage to the original damage that would have been taken. Coincidence? Let's find out! One more test.

Pikachu's neutral B does 6% damage at close range, 5% medium range, and 4% damage at the way tip of its reach.
Well... this is interesting. Definitely not adding 8% damage in this case. It's doing 6% damage, in fact. That's the same damage as Pikachu's attack is doing. I guess this is not as simple as +8.

Bowser's fire breath - did 10% damage. With one hit the fire usually does 1%. I tested it again and the counter did 9% damage. I decided to kill Bowser thinking it's due to hidden decimal places, but afterwards I dealt 8% damage.

The only explanation for that is the counter has a sweetspot. That does not explain Pikachu's neutral B though.

Rosalina's fully chraged Luma shot - 22% damage. Somewhat close range. At same range without Shulk's counter it does 16% damage. An addition of 6%. At this point I'm still thinking the difference is addition and different based off of where the Monado hits the opponent. Another possibility is it is based on how long between when the counter is used and when the move hits the counter. Perhaps Pikachu's neutral B is just special in some way - maybe because it is a projectile? That seems unlikely but who knows.

Toon Link's fully charged arrow at pretty close range does 11% damage. When Shulk countered it did 13%. However, I did make a mistake with Shulk and had to counter twice before the arrow hit me. I retested at the same range and the move did 17% when Shulk countered it. I think I realize how it works now. I think that along with the frame that the counter will work decreasing, perhaps the damage done by the counter decreases as well. This works in combination with where the Monado hits the opponent to determine your damage. I must have been overusing the counter when facing Pikachu earlier.

Testing Pikachu again - Shulk does 8% damage with the counter. Pikachu's attack still does 6%. What the hell?? This makes no sense. However, I'm able to confirm that the lower interval is all that changes too, since I retested it after using the counter repeatedly and got 9% damage (difference must be sweetspot again)

Well, I guess all I can say for now is that the damage is increased between 2% and 8% when Shulk returns the hit, and that 2-8% depends somewhat on a sweetspot. There must be some other variable controlling things.

Alright, that was a bit unsatisfying. Let's test out how the Monado arts effect the damage that the counter deals.
According to Shulk's metagame thread, Buster multiplies damage dealt by 40% and increases damage taken by 20%.

Earlier I found that Shulk's counter of a fully charged PK Bomb deals 46% damage and Ohkos. Just to make sure of that, I am retesting now. This time I have a sured way of making sure they are the same distance from each other. Ok...? I got 52% damage. Let's test again? 52%. Again? 52%. Again? 52%. -Ok this time I'm going to make sure to use the counter twice in succession. 46%!! Therefore, the difference from 52% to 46% is caused by using the move multiple times in succession. This confirms that there is a sweetspot, since I was getting different values when facing Bowser's fire. However, this does not explain Pikach's Neutral B.

Back on track... Shulk in Monado Buster should deal 72.8% (73%) damage (Pk Bomb) if only the attack of the counter is effected by Monado Arts, since Buster multiplies damage by 1.4. However, it is possible that Shulk will deal extra damage because he takes additional damage himself while in Monado Buster. If this is true, he will deal out more than 73% damage. Let's test ^.^!!

Shulk deals 73% damage! Looks like the amount of damage he takes does not matter, only the damage of the opponent's attack.

That's all I'm doing for damage. Now let's look switch gears and look at knockback.

The attack with Monado Buster did still kill Ness, but it had less knockback. This proves that the knockback dealt is effected by Monado Arts.

How does Ness's PK Bomb go from almost no knockback to an Ohko? It's a tricky quesion. Let's test how the counter responds to other types of attacks.

When countered Bowser's fully charged F-Smash at the range of touching each other, Bowser gets sent just off-screen. When Bowser uses fully charged F-Smash against another Bowser, the bowser gets sent just a little bit off of FD.

How I would explain it is that the hitbox of Shulk's counter has a decent base knockback, no matter what move hits him. This explains why Shulk's counter still has okay knockback when moves that have low knockback such as bowser's fire and Sheik's needles trigger the counter. I believe that the knockback growth of Shulk's counter is what is determined by the opponent's move, but it is increased to some extent.

I think that Ness's PK Bomb is an odd case. I think it may have barely any base knockback and it makes up for it with lots of knockback growth. The knockback growth is sent to and increased (seemingly multiplied) in Shulk's counter, and is made even more deadly because Shulk's counter does have a base knockback.

Took me hours to test but takes only a couple minutes to read =]

Just remember, back aerial is bad if you have Speed active. Your jump becomes short enough where if you try to short hop, your back aerial will end prematurely. This can cause a poking attempt to backfire since the actual hitboxes don't appear. Neutral aerial has a similar problem to a lesser extent.

I rarely have this issue. I got used to using Bair sooner than I would if I was not in Speed mode.

If im not off, Speed Shulk has the fastest walk regardless of mode relative to everyone else and it is about Pits Dash in speed.

It's great for chasing after people who roll a lot :D.

 

[Masonomace]

Leaping Back Slash

From the front:
Ending:8%
Tip:9%
Downswing(hilt):4%
Downswing(blade):6%
Everywhere else seems to be 10%

From the back:
Ending:16%
Tip:14%(I don't get it why it's suddenly lower than the ending hit...)
Downswing(hilt):11%
Downswing(blade):12%
Everywhere else did 16%

So to add-on to the long list of WTF M8, I got this extremely weird & situational hit-box with Back Slash Leap. . . .
And I dealt 18%. .Seriously the inconsistency with Back Slash & its Custom variations.

I got the 18% by being very close to someone, & I can only explain it like I saw it: Between the Hilt area & Shulk himself, it connected between there. The very core of Shulk made the CPU feel it, to the max.

18% though, I did this on BF though the stage doesn't matter anyway. Rosalina was my test dummy because of her tall-yet-slender body shape not being so wide. The worse that can happen is you being too close & you hop over her completely missing the hit, or, you aren't in the exact spot & you deal the normal 11% with the Hilt area. The reason we get 18% is probably because Shulk in mid-air is practically behind her, & hitting with the Hilt which is behind her is technically Backwards damage. /logic

Conclusion: This takes the cake, & that I still believe that Back Slash is confirmed #1 most weirdest attack move in SSB4 EVER.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Speaking of Back Slash, I'll have to experiment with up throw into Back Slash combo. It is possible to do, but I question varies factors like hitstun, falling speed, and the mode Shulk is in.

 

[LordTakeo]

Speaking of Back Slash, I'll have to experiment with up throw into Back Slash combo. It is possible to do, but I question varies factors like hitstun, falling speed, and the mode Shulk is in.

That was already mentionied in the social thread, a month ago. It's pretty decent, but relies heavily on the already mentioned factors. I personally prefere uthrow utilt and nair/fair. It goes well with buster.
Or I've misunderstood what was talked about, and I should feel ashamed.
Either way, I looove speed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I just would like technicalities (i.e. every factor for every character and mode), since at the moment I feel like merely using Back Slash as a limited spacing move is sort of undermining any hidden potential the move has.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

So to add-on to the long list of WTF M8, I got this extremely weird & situational hit-box with Back Slash Leap. . . .
And I dealt 18%. .Seriously the inconsistency with Back Slash & its Custom variations.

I got the 18% by being very close to someone, & I can only explain it like I saw it: Between the Hilt area & Shulk himself, it connected between there. The very core of Shulk made the CPU feel it, to the max.

18% though, I did this on BF though the stage doesn't matter anyway. Rosalina was my test dummy because of her tall-yet-slender body shape not being so wide. The worse that can happen is you being too close & you hop over her completely missing the hit, or, you aren't in the exact spot & you deal the normal 11% with the Hilt area. The reason we get 18% is probably because Shulk in mid-air is practically behind her, & hitting with the Hilt which is behind her is technically Backwards damage. /logic

Conclusion: This takes the cake, & that I still believe that Back Slash is confirmed #1 most weirdest attack move in SSB4 EVER.

Shulk confirmed to be his own sweetspot. I am so freaking done with this move.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Haha, looks like Shulk borrowed Roy's Wet noodle properties.

So essentially, Shulk's Backslash sweetspot is useless is what I'm understanding? Unless it can be combo'd into it, being that close to the opponent can't be something that is safe to do

 

[FlareHabanero]

Has there been any reports of any changes Shulk got for the Wii U version, and by extension the new patch for the 3DS version?

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Has there been any reports of any changes Shulk got for the Wii U version, and by extension the new patch for the 3DS version?

The only thing I know is that you can now see what Art Shulk has active right next to his damage gauge. Other than that, I don't know anything else. (Maybe this will also transfer to the 3DS version also?)

 

[Masonomace]

Haha, looks like Shulk borrowed Roy's Wet noodle properties.

So essentially, Shulk's Backslash sweetspot is useless is what I'm understanding? Unless it can be combo'd into it, being that close to the opponent can't be something that is safe to do

For Back Slash Leap's most-sweetest-spot, yeah it's not that useful. The regular Back Slash's sweetest-spot has its uses since it has a weird property of forcing them to face the opposite direction, giving you the back-damage when hitting with the Hilt area. Other than that, I got nothing.

 

[DavemanCozy]

For Back Slash Leap's most-sweetest-spot, yeah it's not that useful. The regular Back Slash's sweetest-spot has its uses since it has a weird property of forcing them to face the opposite direction, giving you the back-damage when hitting with the Hilt area. Other than that, I got nothing.

Oh yeah, I meant to say Back Slash Leap. Thanks!

The only thing I know is that you can now see what Art Shulk has active right next to his damage gauge. Other than that, I don't know anything else. (Maybe this will also transfer to the 3DS version also?)

Yep, this is true. Shulk's current Monado art is next to his Damage % in Wii U. Also, really important to note, the Monado Art icon starts blinking about ~4 seconds before it expires: if you see it blinking, you know that you're about to go back to vanilla Shulk.

I went to Toronto last weekend, got to play with TO Joe's copy. Simply put, a secondary-stick just makes him feel way better to play as.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Oh yeah, I meant to say Back Slash Leap. Thanks!


Yep, this is true. Shulk's current Monado art is next to his Damage % in Wii U. Also, really important to note, the Monado Art icon starts blinking about ~4 seconds before it expires: if you see it blinking, you know that you're about to go back to vanilla Shulk.

I went to Toronto last weekend, got to play with TO Joe's copy. Simply put, a secondary-stick just makes him feel way better to play as.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Thanks man. I guess the overall changes let players know what Art Shulk has active & when it's about to run out (It might have been intentional as I remebered back when people mentioned how it was difficult to see what Art Shulk was about to activate when he was off-screen, without knowing the cycle).

 

[Berserker.]

I went to Toronto last weekend, got to play with TO Joe's copy. Simply put, a secondary-stick just makes him feel way better to play as.

How's Shulk's DACUS?

For Back Slash Leap's most-sweetest-spot, yeah it's not that useful. The regular Back Slash's sweetest-spot has its uses since it has a weird property of forcing them to face the opposite direction, giving you the back-damage when hitting with the Hilt area. Other than that, I got nothing.

I think I clarified this already

Back slash has a short-lasting hitbox behind it so you can hit people from the back as long as you land that hitbox


Oh and also...

Rosalina was nerf'd. 13 second respawn timer and she can't use Luma to get out of grabs anymore. Thank God

Also, Greninja was nerf'd in some aspects (U-smash, d-air, side B and hydro gimp) Edit: Not sure about u-smash

 

[LordTakeo]

Also, Greninja was nerf'd in some aspects (U-smash, d-air, side B and hydro gimp)

This pleases me.

 

[Berserker.]

Correction about hydro pump, it wasn't nerfed. Only shadow sneak or d-air was nerfed

Use Monado jump for recovering guys.

THERE. A quote

Taken from the Greninja social thread
"I played the Wii U version today for three hours at a Gamestop. Usmash now has more ending lag, enough to be punished by any character's running grab it would seem if the lower hit is shielded. Additionally, Hydro Pump seems to have lost both range and a little push back power (the latter needs to be better confirms cause FFAs are hard)."
Click to expand...
Also, it's been confirmed that Greninja won't be able to do a shadowsneak after a whiffed dair.

 

[Creo]

Since the first day that I've used Shulk, I had stated that the GCN controller will do wonders for his (or at least personally my own) game), particularly speaking about spacing aerials.

Anyhow, it's been a while, friends. I'm still around, seeing how I can develop Shulk's potential. I've been hitting back throw > j.BS (jumping back slash) lately. Ha. It's kind of gimmicky, but after having shown the opponent a few up-throw mix-ups and reads, making contact hasn't been as far-fetched as it might sound. Speaking of up-throw, it truly is a powerful weapon, granted your game is on a high enough level to have consistent reads / reactions to your opponent. There are a plethora of options with an artless Shulk, on top of additional options certain arts can create (i.e. MAB Up-throw > dash-pivot f-tilt on a jumpless / air-dodge read is fun at low to mid percentages (depending on character)). Also, OoS > Up-B / Up-Smash works. I don't know why I don't see that as a punish option more often with its killing potential.

I had played a great Shulk online yesterday, although I don't recognize him from around these boards (Kellum, I believe it was?). Anyhow, it was the first Shulk I've personally played against that seemed on my own Shulk's level. I took the initial set with my Sheik (2 - 0), then changed to Shulk for two additional matches (1 - 1) before he had exited (I had a stupid SD on a close last game (that I blame on the 3DS as a controller), and I suppose he wanted to leave with a win. Ha. I was salty about that due to my SD, but what can you do?).

 

[LordTakeo]

Buster + Upthrow + Uptilt a few times is truly wonderful.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This pleases me.

That doesn't please me somewhat.

I say somewhat because Greninja isn't being nerfed to oblivion.

 

[JackPR]

Wouldn't Hyper Buster only be good against light characters because of its non-existent knock back? Using it at already high percents seems counter productive...

 

[Masonomace]

Wouldn't Hyper Buster only be good against light characters because of its non-existent knock back? Using it at already high percents seems counter productive...

Yeah, pretty much the attacks that have the highest knockback would oddly have better combo-game, such as his D-throw, or just B-throw because a free 18% throw is freakin amazing. 5% damage pummels are godlike too~

HBuster may work against characters that can't act out of the little hit-stun with a low frame start-up move.

 

[JackPR]

Yeah, pretty much the attacks that have the highest knockback would oddly have better combo-game, such as his D-throw, or just B-throw because a free 18% throw is freakin amazing. 5% damage pummels are godlike too~

HBuster may work against characters that can't act out of the little hit-stun with a low frame start-up move.

It's just that people were talking about Bowser being killed at around 60% with HSmash and how with HBuster you can get to 50% easily, but I don't think that is a very good idea since Bowser is probably too heavy.

 

[Masonomace]

It's just that people were talking about Bowser being killed at around 60% with HSmash and how with HBuster you can get to 50% easily, but I don't think that is a very good idea since Bowser is probably too heavy.

I feel you. It can only be a good idea if Shulk is super-spaced like as if we're playing like Marth, hitting with the Beam portion in all of our moves that have low cooldown. The super-spacing will be a thing on the WiiU most definitely.

 

[erico9001]

Since the first day that I've used Shulk, I had stated that the GCN controller will do wonders for his (or at least personally my own) game), particularly speaking about spacing aerials.

In addition, retreating with FAirs or returning with BAirs will do wonders for Shulk's edge game, I'd imagine. Though, I'll be using a Wii U Pro controller - will be easier for me to dacus with it.

Also, OoS > Up-B / Up-Smash works. I don't know why I don't see that as a punish option more often with its killing potential.

I've been trying to use the OOS Up Smash more because of that killing power. OOS Up B is something I have been doing less of lately, and I should probably try to do it more often.
^Unrelated to thisv
----
Some things I've been finding... these may have been previously discussed though..
Boost grabbing is nice in MShield. I can see this throwing people off since you will go suddenly faster when you do a boost grab. Roll Cancel Grabs might be good in MShield too, but they seem to be pretty bad with Shulk otherwise.

I notice that when you put up your shield while running, you continue sliding forward for a little bit. You can grab out of the shield while sliding or after you've stopped. The range of this seems to be about the same as a dash grab, so it could be an alternative option. I'm not sure about any disadvantages of doing this (maybe it's slower?), but I can imagine sliding in while shielding to block an attack -> shield grab punish. This is not Shulk specific, but does anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[Masonomace]

I notice that when you put up your shield while running, you continue sliding forward for a little bit. You can grab out of the shield while sliding or after you've stopped. The range of this seems to be about the same as a dash grab, so it could be an alternative option. I'm not sure about any disadvantages of doing this (maybe it's slower?), but I can imagine sliding in while shielding to block an attack -> shield grab punish. This is not Shulk specific, but does anyone have thoughts on this?

I didn't really have any thoughts for the RCGrabs, but I'm liking the sounds of Dashing+shield grab, and shield+stop grabs depending if we have good Shield DI or not. What's it like for Speed while doing these shield+grab techniques? That would be cool if Speed granted extra slide distance between the shield+cancel during the dash, & then the grab connects from a farther distance. But for Shield's sake, that carry-over distance from Dash Attack looks amazing since Shield is ya know, slow.

There's actually DACG (Dash Attack Cancel Grab) & DACPG (P = Pivot), but there's not much exploration in-depth to Shulk's grab-game enough oddly. Other than pivot grabs & pivot boost grabbing, I haven't seen much discussion about all of the rest. I suspect DACGs with Shield mode are dope.

 

[DavemanCozy]

How's Shulk's DACUS?

Well, it kinda sucks that you have to be in Speed Monado to really get an advantage out of it. But, it is possible to do: window to cancel the dash attack is tight though. I didn't get much of a chance to really use it though, I only got chances to use it to punish opponents trying to land in the stage. I mostly played 8 player mode, so you can imagine why I didn't get much of a chance to experiment.

I did notice they removed some tech in Wii U though, like Greninja's Shadow Sneak Landing lag cancel. Shulk is safe for now, he still has DACUS, but I really hope 1.0.4 doesn't get rid of it.

 

[erico9001]

I didn't really have any thoughts for the RCGrabs, but I'm liking the sounds of Dashing+shield grab, and shield+stop grabs depending if we have good Shield DI or not. What's it like for Speed while doing these shield+grab techniques? That would be cool if Speed granted extra slide distance between the shield+cancel during the dash, & then the grab connects from a farther distance. But for Shield's sake, that carry-over distance from Dash Attack looks amazing since Shield is ya know, slow.

There's actually DACG (Dash Attack Cancel Grab) & DACPG (P = Pivot), but there's not much exploration in-depth to Shulk's grab-game enough oddly. Other than pivot grabs & pivot boost grabbing, I haven't seen much discussion about all of the rest. I suspect DACGs with Shield mode are dope.

Oh. Actually is there a difference between Dash Attack Cancel Grabs and Boost grabs other than the button input? I guess I'm talking about the Dash Attack Cancel Grab though. The funny thing is just this morning I was toying around with things in 1/4x speed in training mode and discovered the DACG by myself. I just figured it was already discovered and the way to do boost grabs in Smash 3ds. So... I guess just replace the word "Boost Grab" with "DACG" in my previous post

 

[meleebrawler]

Has anyone felt that they can cause great stress if they
use their Nairs a lot and then start jumping around the stage
with Monado Jump?

 

[Masonomace]

Oh. Actually is there a difference between Dash Attack Cancel Grabs and Boost grabs other than the button input? I guess I'm talking about the Dash Attack Cancel Grab though. The funny thing is just this morning I was toying around with things in 1/4x speed in training mode and discovered the DACG by myself. I just figured it was already discovered and the way to do boost grabs in Smash 3ds. So... I guess just replace the word "Boost Grab" with "DACG" in my previous post

IIRC, the Boost grab is the sliding result of a DACG, & that the character's Boost grab varies. Perhaps

Has anyone felt that they can cause great stress if they
use their Nairs a lot and then start jumping around the stage
with Monado Jump?

I do this sometimes, but I find landing B-airs from a spaced distance, hitting with the very tip of the Beam to be a good mix-up in order to keep your opponent guessing. Jumping around doing N-airs can be okay to an extent but then it's the predictable notion of being punished from a dash+shield grab upon our N-air landing.

EDIT: However, air-spaced N-airs drifting forward, then drifting backwards during the N-air is quite fearsome. So yes it can put stress on.

 

[Claxus]

About that sliding shield thing. Shulk actually slides significantly less (nearly not at all) when you shield while running in Speed. But at least, he still gets overall more distance in Speed, so it's not a big deal since you can just run and block in their face instead of inching closer with a sliding block. Good to know for when you're not using Speed though.

 

[Masonomace]

About that sliding shield thing. Shulk actually slides significantly less (nearly not at all) when you shield while running in Speed. But at least, he still gets overall more distance in Speed, so it's not a big deal since you can just run and block in their face instead of inching closer with a sliding block. Good to know for when you're not using Speed though.

Reading this is just about as weird as that question I asked from ya a long time ago about Shulk's Shield-break jump being higher when Jump is active, & then learning from you testing it saying his jump height is reduced. /logic

As you say, the ground speed that Speed mode covers pretty much makes up for it though.

 

[JackPR]

About that sliding shield thing. Shulk actually slides significantly less (nearly not at all) when you shield while running in Speed. But at least, he still gets overall more distance in Speed, so it's not a big deal since you can just run and block in their face instead of inching closer with a sliding block. Good to know for when you're not using Speed though.

This seems situational, but do you know how much Shulk slides in Shield mode when he shields?

 

[Claxus]

@ Masonomace Haha, same here. His Monado Arts have the weirdest contradictory side-effects.

This seems situational, but do you know how much Shulk slides in Shield mode when he shields?

Sadly he doesn't defy logic here. I would say it's about the same amount of sliding time as normal, but being so slow it's hardly any distance.

 

[JackPR]

@ Masonomace Haha, same here. His Monado Arts have the weirdest contradictory side-effects.


Sadly he doesn't defy logic here. I would say it's about the same amount of sliding time as normal, but being so slow it's hardly any distance.

Are there any other weird, potentially useful side effects from his Monado Arts?

On another note, I'm not 100% certain on consistently doing a DACUS, do you do a dash attack amd immediately after do the up smash? Will Shulk's DACUS be any good outside of Speed mode? Would an up throw at higher percentages be good to follow up with an aerial in jump mode, kind of like Falco with his jump height?

 

[Masonomace]

Are there any other weird, potentially useful side effects from his Monado Arts?

From what I know:
Jump's landing gives a bit of a slide more than usual when drifting toward one direction compared to Vanilla
Speed's slipping animation distance from tripping on Bananas increases. Hyper Speed's slip animation distance is freakin huge
Shield's ability to tank projectiles & shield-breaking moves is godlike. And ledge-jump's height isn't affected by Shield mode at all.

That's all I got.

EDIT: Funny thing while testing with Items; we can run up, quickly grab an item, & then buffer a back roll all in one split moment being totally safe about it. Isn't that just amazing?

 

[JackPR]

From what I know:
Jump's landing gives a bit of a slide more than usual when drifting toward one direction compared to Vanilla
Speed's slipping animation distance from tripping on Bananas increases. Hyper Speed's slip animation distance is freakin huge
Shield's ability to tank projectiles & shield-breaking moves is godlike. And ledge-jump's height isn't affected by Shield mode at all.

That's all I got.

EDIT: Funny thing while testing with Items; we can run up, quickly grab an item, & then buffer a back roll all in one split moment being totally safe about it. Isn't that just amazing?

Is the item thing Shulk exclusive?

 

[Claxus]

Is the item thing Shulk exclusive?

I'm pretty sure it's not. Running up to an item, stopping the circle pad for a split second, then grabbing the item while braking and buffer a roll? If it's something else then maybe it's Shulk-specfic.

Also, a side effect for Jump is that footstool jump height is decreased quite a bit.

 

[Masonomace]

Is the item thing Shulk exclusive?

I didn't test with anyone else since I was on a craze messing with Shulk & the items when affected by MArts.

Basically when you're versing characters with their items in hand like these:
or
Then your item-play with Speed mode active becomes amazing due to all of the advanced throwing techniques to boot with Speed's grounded slide & all that.

 

[JackPR]

I didn't test with anyone else since I was on a craze messing with Shulk & the items when affected by MArts.

Basically when you're versing characters with their items in hand like these:
or
Then your item-play with Speed mode active becomes amazing due to all of the advanced throwing techniques to boot with Speed's grounded slide & all that.

Now that you kind of mentioned Diddy, what are good ways to deal with him? His bananas and gun, while grabable, still make speed trickier, and jump isnt exactly reliable since his air game is good and he could shield grab you. Buster would be hard to approach with but Nair could make it work... not sure though

 

[Berserker.]

Rising SH B-air with Hyper speed works so I'll assume that also works with default speed