Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[Masonomace]

Now that you kind of mentioned Diddy, what are good ways to deal with him? His bananas and gun, while grabable, still make speed trickier, and jump isnt exactly reliable since his air game is good and he could shield grab you. Buster would be hard to approach with but Nair could make it work... not sure though

I personally don't know that much about the Diddy MU, but I can definitely say we don't need Buster mode strictly for the Bananas, let alone Diddy. Our Vanilla attacks destroy the banana easily because universal projectile nerf.

 

[Berserker.]

What the **** back slash?

So the beam and the blade deal 16% on the back but the glass/lens and the very tip of the beam 14%

....

Also, the HBuster+Dtilt cheese is real

 

[Masonomace]

What the **** back slash?

So the beam and the blade deal 16% on the back but the glass/lens and the very tip of the beam 14%

....

Also, the HBuster+Dtilt cheese is real

Tell me about it. Back Slash & it's Customs can be & basically are derp & slurp. Back Slash Leap's sweetest-spot takes the cake for being the dumbest hit-box ever. . .

6 seconds of cheese you say, sounds great seeming that D-tilt is great poke & a decent landing punish, so I'm all in.

 

[Berserker.]

D-tilting consecutively with HBuster. Not a true combo but woooow. That damage though

 

[Masonomace]

D-tilting consecutively with HBuster. Not a true combo but woooow. That damage though

Damn! 13% with the Blade & 10% with the Beam. Nice! Maybe Shulk's HBuster D-tilt (Beam) deals more damage than Marth's Tipped D-tilt. Worth it in case.

 

[Berserker.]

............. Holy ****. Charging back slash....

There's some certain spacing but you can still force the back hit even up front without the character jumping

It's easy to force it against big characters. Slightly difficult to pull it off against medium height characters (Dark Pit). Near impossible against short characters

 

[Masonomace]

............. Holy ****. Charging back slash....

There's some certain spacing but you can still force the back hit even up front without the character jumping

It's easy to force it against big characters. Slightly difficult to pull it off against medium height characters (Dark Pit). Near impossible against short characters

Does Shulk have to be in a close proximity to them or something?

 

[Berserker.]

Does Shulk have to be in a close proximity to them or something?

Very specific spacing from the character

Being at close proximity nets a 100% chance of overshooting it lol

 

[Masonomace]

Very specific spacing from the character

Being at close proximity nets a 100% chance of overshooting it lol

*Whew* Then it's not like Back Slash Leap's sweetest-spot AT ALL. Again *whew*, I can dig the specific spacing, as long as I don't need to be standing eye-to-eye in front of the opponent's face to be in the right place.

 

[Berserker.]

Hmmmm.... If you deactivate your monado arts, can you still B-reversal with it?

Also, I think b-reversing will be very important against air borne opponents because b-air stuffs a lot of attacks and projectiles which is why I'm asking if you can still b-reverse if you're trying to deactivate arts. B-air is the safest attack to use against other aerials because of it's range compared to f-air and n-air. I feel like f-air is also great but it trades blows with other attacks sometimes, instead of outright stuffing it.

 

[Masonomace]

There was a rumor going around that it was possible to B-Reverse during when a MArt de-activates, however I tried doing it on my own & couldn't do so (I really don't believe Shulk can B-Reverse the MArt de-activation, let alone Pivot / Turn-Around the direction at all; we have to mash the B button 2 - 3 times, so doing a B-Reverse or dare I say a WaveBounce input would be hell to attempt trying even if it does work). The first step would be to know if we can pivot aka turn-around our direction airborne during the de-activation or not. Then at least I can drift my aerial away or not depending on the air spacing.

EDIT: As a side note, I updated the OP with nicer cleaner diagram pictures of the U-tilt, D-tilt, & F-tilt that are more accurate in terms of the hit-boxes, check'em out.

And, I'm thinking on the secret topic with B-Sticking for Shulk would be kind of interesting, considering that would make approaching SH > N-air & SH > F-air absolutely safe. I'm now also curious about the sheer distance difference between a pivoted Back Slash & a WaveBounced Back Slash as well.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Don't you have armor from Back Slash Charge as well?

If so, this seems to be the better move to use. I'm all for gaining more horizontal distance as well

 

[meleebrawler]

Don't you have armor from Back Slash Charge as well?

If so, this seems to be the better move to use. I'm all for gaining more horizontal distance as well

It does during the leap, but it does lower damage than default
and has much greater end lag.

It also goes further.

 

[Berserker.]

Don't you have armor from Back Slash Charge as well?

If so, this seems to be the better move to use. I'm all for gaining more horizontal distance as well

Yep. There's super armor. If you want more power, go for back slash (default). If you want more utility, go for back slash charge. It's great for closing in with the right art activated and it's also great against campers.

I have a fear though that customs may be banned

 

[DavemanCozy]

I have a fear though that customs may be banned

I've been reading the discussion on them myself. Many are all for them, even in the Wii U version. The thing is, setting up custom movesets has to be done in the Wii U during the beginning of the tourney / between sets. They present a bit of a time problem in big tournaments.

Also, the lower damage: that happens only if you strike your opponent face to face instead of the opponent's back, right?

 

[Berserker.]

I've been reading the discussion on them myself. Many are all for them, even in the Wii U version. The thing is, setting up custom movesets has to be done in the Wii U during the beginning of the tourney between sets. They present a bit of a time problem in big tournaments.

I did hear that some people can sneak in games with equipment. I don't even know how that can happen. There's an indication that shows if the player has equipment on.

Also, the lower damage: that happens only if you strike your opponent face to face instead of the opponent's back, right?

Ah. Lower damage overall.

Default back slash deals 9/10% damage on front hit. 14/16% back hit

Back slash charge deals 3/4% damage on front hit. 11/13% back hit



Edit:

According to the DACUS thread in the academy section, Shulk doesn't need any arts to do his 1/4 DACUS. The arts don't affect the distance (http://smashboards.com/threads/dacus-thread-a-list-of-all-of-the-notable-dacuss-in-the-game.373052/)

But anyway, Monado speed (default) u-smash kills at 115%

 

[DavemanCozy]

According to the DACUS thread in the academy section, Shulk doesn't need any arts to do his 1/4 DACUS. The arts don't affect the distance (http://smashboards.com/threads/dacus-thread-a-list-of-all-of-the-notable-dacuss-in-the-game.373052/)

But anyway, Monado speed (default) u-smash kills at 115%

Interesting, I didn't know this. When I was trying it in Wii U, I was only doing it in Speed Monado. It didn't occur to me to try it without a Monado.

This would be really useful if you're with the Shield Art activated.

 

[erico9001]

According to the DACUS thread in the academy section, Shulk doesn't need any arts to do his 1/4 DACUS. The arts don't affect the distance (http://smashboards.com/threads/dacus-thread-a-list-of-all-of-the-notable-dacuss-in-the-game.373052/)

If that's true, sounds great for improving mobility with Shield Shulk.

 

[SoniCraft]

Is anybody here a fan of Decisive Monado Arts? I think I might be becoming one, but Shulk is more of a rising secondary for me, so I want the input of the true Shulk mains. Also I love Back Slash Charge.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Is anybody here a fan of Decisive Monado Arts? I think I might be becoming one, but Shulk is more of a rising secondary for me, so I want the input of the true Shulk mains. Also I love Back Slash Charge.

Personally, I'm not a fan. Even though they last longer, there's hardly a time where I want to stay locked in one stance for that long. Having the ability to de-activate monado arts and switch to another one (potentially more useful for that situation) is much better, IMO.

Example scenarios:

1. You have just KO'd your opponent from the side in Smash stance, you're at moderate percentage (~60%), and still have some time left with the stance. With decisive arts, you are still locked in this stance, so your only option is to avoid everything your opponent tries to hit you with or read your opponent well enough to avoid what they try to do and punish back; otherwise you'll fly too far back. With the hyper / normal arts, you can de-activate it quickly and switch to something better (like Shield or Jump).
2. You have successfully knocked your opponent off-stage, and you were using Speed stance to accomplish carrying them off-stage. Your opponent is someone like who has really good recovery. Going off-stage to gimp is not advisable while in Speed, specially against Greninja: if you were able to switch to Jump mode, however, you can use the high jump height to go low-offstage, gimp and still make it back safely, or jump high to catch high recoveries.
   
   EDIT: well, Greninja's Hydro Pump recovery doesn't push opponents as much as it used to in 1.0.3. Lol, so much for my example.
   
   
3. You've racked enough damage in Buster mode, and now you need to get the opponent off-stage with Speed, Jump, or go for the KO with Smash, depending on what option is best. However, being locked in Buster will prevent you from switching quickly enough to the next stance, and so you are forced to keep the opponent busy (potentially putting you at risk) or run away until you switch back (giving your opponent momentum back). It's much better to be able to switch out.

In my experience, I'm never in one stance long enough to justify not being able to switch out of it. I'm usually cycling between them: I can't be relying on the match being in my favor all the time to justify locking myself in a stance that could turn disadvantageous as the match progresses.

 

[kenniky]

I did hear that some people can sneak in games with equipment. I don't even know how that can happen. There's an indication that shows if the player has equipment on.

I think it only shows up if a stat is positive, so if the opponent equipped some stuff so that they'd have negative or zero stats overall but had those wonky buffs then it wouldn't appear

Like: Speed +5 Attack -17 +damage healing
Attack +9 Defense -19 +Critical hit chance
Defense +2 Speed -28 +no landing lag

then the stats would be Attack -8, Defense -17, Speed -23 so nothing would show up but they'd have those ridiculous buffs

(btw those equips are completely made up)

 

[Berserker.]

Decisive buster is good against characters that are ass against sword characters. It's not really that hard to wait it out with smash or buster. I'll admit, it'd be better if you switch out but the potential damage you can get from decisive buster is reeeally high

Decisive shield may also prove to be useful but being knocked off stage will cause some problems

This all comes down to personal preference in the end but I can see where those who are hesitant about Decisive are coming from (Even I was a bit iffy on it)

 

[LordTakeo]

I think it only shows up if a stat is positive, so if the opponent equipped some stuff so that they'd have negative or zero stats overall but had those wonky buffs then it wouldn't appear

Like: Speed +5 Attack -17 +damage healing
Attack +9 Defense -19 +Critical hit chance
Defense +2 Speed -28 +no landing lag

then the stats would be Attack -8, Defense -17, Speed -23 so nothing would show up but they'd have those ridiculous buffs

(btw those equips are completely made up)

Damage healing really does exists. But that would be too obvious, wouldn't it?
And no landing laag... I'd say if this equipment existed, every player would use and have it.
That would honestly justify the use of equipment.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

New patch is out, I hope they release patch notes (not likely) so we can see if there were any concrete Shulk changes.

 

[Masonomace]

So far from what's going on in Skype, Shulk's gotten a slight damage buff all around his attacks. Vanilla apparently is dealing 1% more than before, & Speed mode is dealing 2% more than usual!

Is anybody here a fan of Decisive Monado Arts? I think I might be becoming one, but Shulk is more of a rising secondary for me, so I want the input of the true Shulk mains. Also I love Back Slash Charge.

I'm a fan, but only for when I play Doubles with DMArts. I allow my teammate to be aggressive while I sit back & play defensive with DShield for 20+ seconds. DSpeed is great too because I can punish any stage-wide mistake that my teammate's current opponent makes, & having his back saving him from being in a bad situation like if he's off-stage getting zoned from the ledge.

DBuster & DSmash require care & caution mostly, so you're a glass cannon so-to-speak when using either of these DMArts, which makes your partner play more aware of your situation. It changes your style going from Stock-Tanking so when you're doing a lot of damage with DBuster, you have to step off him & let your partner finish his / her stock for you.

 

[MASTERLINKX]

Just tested Shulk. Most of his moves have a 1% increase in damage. and in buster form can be 2% increase in damage. Speed also can have 1-2% increase in damage. This is great.

Sloppy video for proof.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

How do you guys feel about Pikachu matchup. I have a very very very VERY hard time getting in.

How I've been approaching it was very turtle-y. Speed works to get around Thunder Jolt, but once I get in I feel as if the rodent still has a lot of safe options. For Glory being all FD is a factor in this too, I suppose. It's really hard to hit. I feel like I have to just mixup approaches (empty jumps).

 

[DavemanCozy]

It's a lot easier to fight Greninja now: his U-smash got nerfed with more ending lag, meaning that, if you get a vision counter on his Up-smash, Greninja won't have time to roll out the Up-smash anymore to avoid the Vision counter. Not to mention it can be punished more safely now too.

 

[Masonomace]

So I'm not sure if anyone else noticed it, but besides the awesome justice D-tilt has acquired being even more of a reliable tilt for us now, what do you guys think we can do to utilize v1.0.4 D-tilt's still-existing back-step distance? It's hard to pinpoint in MASTERLINKX's video, but it's sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly there (or my eyes need sleep), though not as noticeable as v1.0.3 D-tilt's back-step distance.

 

[Berserker.]

Just a fun fact

If the character is really near the ledge or his or her or its model is slightly off the edge, you can d-air meteor smash 'em even if they're not even in mid air. Just meteor smash them from where they're standing

Grab the ledge -> Drop from ledge -> Jump upwards -> d-air

This only works if they're near the edge. As in NEAR. Try it out

 

[DavemanCozy]

F-air has slightly less ending lag now, although I don't see it being a safe approach move even with this buff.

So I'm not sure if anyone else noticed it, but besides the awesome justice D-tilt has acquired being even more of a reliable tilt for us now, what do you guys think we can do to utilize v1.0.4 D-tilt's still-existing back-step distance? It's hard to pinpoint in MASTERLINKX's video, but it's sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiightly there (or my eyes need sleep), though not as noticeable as v1.0.3 D-tilt's back-step distance.

Spaced N-air (almost the tip of beam hit) -> fasf-fall -> D-tilt ?

We could also use it to slightly improve our position if we edge-guard near the ledge.

 

[meleebrawler]

Does anyone feel that Fsmash is... wider somehow? It seems
to be more generous with it's accuracy.

 

[Heavy C4]

His down tilt is actually hittable at close range. AMAZING. No more Roy hit boxs

 

[Zephil]

His down tilt is actually hittable at close range. AMAZING. No more Roy hit boxs

I think this and the knb correction in the first hit of fsmash are the best buffs for him. No more crazy wiffs!

But still the other buffs are amazing! Buster is so strong right now! I can already savor the tears of the raging scrubs when Shulk gets more recognition.

 

[kenniky]

Damage healing really does exists. But that would be too obvious, wouldn't it?

The only buff I made up was landing lag, all the other ones are buffs that I have on characters. I made up the equip stats though.

Also, seems like Shulk got buffed a bit, this'll be really nice. I guess Sakurai decided to change the future of competitive play.

 

[Robby9856]

hey guys, been following this thread for a long time but never posted anything. I've been playing shulk since the release of the game and i love his playstyle! So how does everyone feel about 1.04? the buffs are amazing, and now that vectoring is gone, up smash indirectly gets buffed. i think this is the reason for DACUS being removed and it can be really good for some characters. either that or sakurai just found it as a glitch and got rid of it

 

[Zephil]

Shulk 1.04 in my opinion is minimum high tier, no doubt about it.

Shulk have tools for everything so definitely he will be a threat in the competitive scene.

 

[Berserker.]

Vectoring is dead

Shulk got buff cakes

Speed is basically vanilla Shulk 1.03 + speed

Buster is insane

Smash actually KO's with anything below 100%. This is supported by the death of vectoring



Prepare your anuses

Edit:

DACUS and vectoring are dead

Which means no one can vector out of mighty air slash or that ****

 

[Berserker.]

Spaced f-airs are pretty safe BUT faster characters are capable of punishing it (eg: Sheik, Greninja)

Crap double post

 

[LordTakeo]

Vectoring is dead

Shulk got buff cakes

Speed is basically vanilla Shulk 1.03 + speed

Buster is insane

Smash actually KO's with anything below 100%. This is supported by the death of vectoring



Prepare your anuses

Edit:

DACUS and vectoring are dead

Which means no one can vector out of mighty air slash or that ****

But now, so many "newbs" are trying to play as him.
And oldies are getting blamed for "only playing him because he is good."
And yes, I edited that.