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TheTwilight Heroes' book of Link matchups (Incomplete)

Terywj [태리]

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Straight from our forums, this is our guide to Link's character matchups. This is under construction.

Hello reader.

In this thread I will be discussing Link's characters matchups.
I will update this every week.

Week #1: Mario
Well, the plumber isn't much of a threat to Link. He only wields one projectile, which is slow and has low priority. Link's Boomerang can cancel it. Mario has not changed much from Melee...and Link has not had trouble dealing with him then. That has not changed.
You can camp and spam Mario to a high damage percent, and then finish him off with a Spin Attack or a Dair. Fighting up close is not a problem either, as Links attacks out-prioritize Mario's. Using the Zair or DAC can give you a surprising approach.
You can finish him off the same way. Playing mixed is another option, constantly switching from offense to defense. Mario's cape can disrupt your projectile play, to get around that, use your Bombs at maximum distance and use the Boomerang. The worst Mario can do is to spike you while recovering, so mix up your recovery as much as you can.
All in all, Mario should not give you too much trouble. You can play in any style and still be able to beat him.

Week #2: Bowser
Similar to Mario, Bowser has not changed much from the transition to Brawl. In Melee, you spammed the crap out of him at a distance, and finished him off with a Dair, a smash etc. In Brawl, you can spam him and he cannot counter if you are far enough. His neutral B does not have too great of a range. You can play close-up without too much worry either. Bowser's attacks may be powerful, but slower than your own. The Zair approach also works wonders. Like playing Mario, you can play pretty much all forms of Link and not worry too much. If he attempts to Bowsercide the match, just keep at a distance and spam him.
Bowser is basically a large target with no projectile and slow attacks. He is no trouble at all.

Week #3: Toon Link
Toon Link is the Brawl form of Young Link. He's faster, lighter, and smaller than you. His Boomerang is a great projectile, it's large and can conver a lot of ground. His arrows are slower than your own, but they "float" more in the air. His bombs have a larger blast radius than yours, but they are weaker. With that said, playing camper against Toon Link will not get you anywhere, anytime. Playing without projectiles is just as troublesome. Toon has faster attacks that chain right into others. His aerials come out quick, especially his Bair. It is especially hard to approach Toon. He is too small and his jumps are too floaty for the Zair approach to work. Your best bet is to mix up between using Zair and DAC and hope to catch him off guard. Since his aerials dominate yours, try to fast-fall your Nair to get an opening. Due to your lack of recovery options, most Toon mains will attempt to Dair spike you. Mix up your recovery between the Up+B and the Zair as often as you can, because if Toon does miss, it will be rewarding. Toon's main KO move is the second swing of his Fsmash. However, there is lag in between the two swings. Use that time to roll or shield the attack, and immediately Zair afterwards. Toon himself has the same recovery options as you do, but his jumps are higher and floatier. Once Toon gets off stage, Gale Guard to prevent him from returning. In conclusion, Toon is a very tough character for the likes of Link to beat. Your spam game is practically useless, his aerials dominate you, and most of his attacks are faster. If you stumble upon fighting a Toon, good luck. You will need it.

Week #4: King Dedede
D3 is one of the larger characters of the Brawl cast, meaning that the Zair approach is useful. D3 does have several techniques which you do need to watch out for. His grab game is deadly. The only thing I can say about this is "Don't get grabbed!" It sounds silly, but that's all there is to say about it. His projectiles are pretty balanced against yours, as they can be hit with your own projectiles and "absorb" the damage. His recovery, although it covers a lot of distance, is very readable and you can spam him out. His Up+B has super armor so you may have to watch out for that. Using a Dair on a vertically recovering D3 can help build up the damage for a KO. KOing D3 is easiest upwards, as his recovery will nullify any side KO attempts. D3's close-range game shouldn't be too much of a problem. Your attacks are generally faster, and although less powerful, pulling off needed combos will make up for that. Be careful of playing D3 in the air, his Nair and Bair come out quick and do a decent chunk of damage. Otherwise, you shouldn't have too much of a problem defeating the penguin, just don't get grabbed. :D

Week #5: Sonic
Sonic...easily the fastest character in all of Brawl. However, he doesn't have any projectiles, so keep your distance and spam him away. If you're fighting him in close combat, use your faster attacks such as your jabs and Dsmash. Sonic's aerials aren't top notch, but they come out faster than yours. Use your Nair to outspeed his attacks, and Fair to out prioritize his. Sonic has a very straightforward recovery, but you can't really do anything to edgeguard him besides spam him. Be careful for his fastest approach, a hypened Usmash. Stop it in its tracks with your spam. Zair really isn't effective in this matchup, as his frame is somewhat small.

Next Week: This character is every problem possible for Link. He's faster, and has a much better recovery. His grab game and his aerials can also dominate you. Power wise, he's somewhat equal to Link, but his attacks come out faster... His has a single projectile, but it can be very problematic to approach this character while being spammed.

Can you guess who next week's character is?
-----
(Tips and advice are appreciated.)

-Ter
 

Matt07

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Hmm, as a Mario main, I'll help you with the match-up ;). I'll try my best to counter your points, and you guys can counter mine.

You can camp and spam Mario to a high damage percent, and then finish him off with a Spin Attack or a Dair.
Alright, I agree here. Also if the Mario player misses the edge, you can easily pull out a spin attack and punish his RCO lag, stay close to edge when Mario is recovering, he doesn't have too many ledge options, and with proper spacing you can easily edge guard him.

Fighting up close is not a problem either, as Links attacks out-prioritize Mario's. Using the Zair or DAC can give you a surprising approach.
Z-air, and DAC are amazing approaches against Mario, even if he Cape's you, your usmash will still hit, and z-air outpriotizes, and outranges everything we have, except up B out of shield, but I don't know if Super Jump Punch has longer range then Link's z-air. Fighting up close can lead to problems. Once Mario is in your range, his aerials are faster then Link's, and he can combo you with u-airs, he can u-tilt you at low %'s, and he can do aerials in one short hop, which can be hard to shield/dodge. Although his shield grab will still hit him no matter how good Mario's spacing is, due to how **** long it is, lol.

You can finish him off the same way. Playing mixed is another option, constantly switching from offense to defense. Mario's cape can disrupt your projectile play, to get around that, use your Bombs at maximum distance and use the Boomerang. The worst Mario can do is to spike you while recovering, so mix up your recovery as much as you can.
All in all, Mario should not give you too much trouble. You can play in any style and still be able to beat him.
Playing mixed is wonderful, Link has MANY tools (Bomb sliding, pivot walking, smooth boots, oh my gee so many AT's I can't even ****ing count, lol.) to keep Mario out his range, Mario will be doing all he can to get inside of your range, although once he use, it shouldn't be too hard too hard to get him out of that with a well placed move. Mario's down throw can lead too many combo's at low %'s so watch out for it. Mario's Cape can't really handle his projectiles, Link can arrow cancel which is hard to predict/Cape unless your being predictable, bombs blow up when he uses the Cape although FLUDD can easily shoot them up into space and they won't come back. Mario's best tool is not f-air over the edge, Mario has FLUDD and Cape which greatly hurt Link's recovery unless they're really smart, and DI perfectly out of a move (godly like Arkive's), and save their DJ. Mario's dsmash can send you at a gay trajectory, which leads to an easy edgeguard for Mario. Ask Sasook how much he loves FLUDD/Cape over the edge, lol xP. Be creative with your recovery, and DI correctly, might still save you against Mario's off stage game. Don't let Mario bring you to the edge, you have to tools to let us approach you, use them. Offstage is bad for Link due to Mario's amazing ledge guard game.

Wall of text lol xP.

Anyways...as I said previously if you want to counter my points you can go ahead. Also this is in MY OPINION, don't flame me too hard.

Hero/Kirin can help has well.
 

sasook

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Ask Sasook how much he loves FLUDD/Cape over the edge lol xP
rofl, hey hey my DI has improved a little lol, even L couldnt gimp me the other day xD.

Mario matchup belongs to Matt, Kirin, and Hero.

Matt because he's a Mario main who loves Aura Link.

Kirin because he plays both a beastly Mario and Link.

Hero because he plays both characters (never actually seen him in battle)

Btw, not to be rude, but why was this topic made? This will just have the same result as Bouse's thread IMO.
 

HeroMystic

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I have both Mario and Link on my youtube account, Sasook. :p

Btw, it's a bad idea to camp Mario since he can reflect projectiles and FLUDD away your bombs. Mario's fireball is used for approaching, not damage. And Mario can combo the snot outta Link.

Link just like about 90% of the cast outranges Mario, but Link also has that Z-air, which can stop Mario's approaches, so half the battle is Mario getting inside. However, the Z-air can be worked around.

And of course, Mario can easily gimp Link if he uses Up-B, so Link needs to be using his tether more than Up-B for this match.

I made a much more elaborate post on the Mario match-up guide. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: That was easy.

There's a lot more to Link than to just being juggled and being easy to gimp. Link has superior spacing ability with his sword, bombs that cannot be reflected (but FLUDDed), and a Z-air that stops your aerial approaches and eat through fireballs.

Plus, he has about ten million ATs to deal with that add onto his mindgames (real number is about 15):

DACUS
Double Draw
Triple Draw
Bomb Smash
Z-air edgeguard
Gale Guard
Bomb Slide
Pivot Boost

That's what I think up from the top of my head since I use these the most with my Link. Out of that list, you should be seeing DACUS, Z-air edgeguard, and Gale Guard (maybe). Z-air edgeguard is just like Mario's Cape stall from the ledge, except Link's is faster and therefore better, but he can only do it up to 3 times.

Gale Guard is when Link jumps off the stage while you're recoverying, and he throws his boomerang at the stage. That way it'll turn around, goes past Link, and head towards you to push you away from the stage. Pretty effective on Mario if he has to recover low.

Link's best chance at winning this match is taking advantage of that fact that Mario has low range, and staying away from his attacks and the edge. He needs to keep the momentum in his favor, because any time when Link is knocked off stage, he's crying mercy, and the only way for him to get back is if Mario messes up. There's really no reason why Link should recover successfully if Mario is relentless on the edgeguarding.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Link has the Bomb catch aerial AT.
 

Kief

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i dont know if we can suggest characters to be covered for this but lately i've been struggling mightely against marths, ikes, and diddy kongs. so if they would be covered sometime soon i would be a very happy camper :)
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Well I thought as a clan we should contribute... <_<

-Ter
You can and should; this is a perfectly legitimate thread. Even if it doesn't function as an "official" match-up discussion, at least we have something to use for match-up discussions for now (I'm looking at you right now, Nintenjoe ;) ).
It's just nice to see something like this up.

I have an issue with you on this thread: D3's "Don't get grabbed." Why do I hate it when people say that? (This is me getting ticked at every1 who says Dont get grabbed, not you Ter) For heavens sake, tell me HOW to avoid getting grabbed! THEN I'm fine with you saying "Don't get grabbed."
The best way to avoid it seems to be counterpicking stages like Battlefield and Norfair. D3's chaingrab is messed up on both stages. On Norfair, your projectile game is enhanced dramatically, especially as D3 has to jump around a lot to fight you, and D3's aerial movement is slow and makes him a huge target (Bair's won't help him escape that!). On Battlefield, use the platforms by jumping, pulling out a bomb, and throwing it downwards. Just jump from platform to platform bombspamming. This is a gay method of fighting, but if you're fighting a gay character like D3, then being gay isn't just a strategy for winning, its a way of life.
This of course only works for counterpicking, which sucks. But the chances are that you'll get the counterpick anyways, because chances are D3 will take you to stages like FD and Smashville, in which case you are screwed. Just zair and pray for mercy.

So please just elaborate on how to avoid getting grabbed.
 

LinkSpecialist

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As strange as it sounds, I want to come up to the defense of the Mario vs Link match-up case. I've played plenty of matches against the likes of Bo X7, Jo-Prep, and Boss. As much of advantage Link has over Mario, he will make you regret being careless against him. True, Mario's fireball's can easily be cut down, but when spaced properly and used carefully in the air, they become a real annoyance and more so, a potential to combo you. Mario has absolutely no trouble from swiftly moving from the air, to the ground and back again. that only means, he can attack very quickly easily. Link is juggled very easily by his u-tilt and u-air if your not careful, and he has ways of combing to his F-smash if he catches you off-guard, a move which happens to come up really fast after something like his b-air (which by the way is also great if spaced properly).

Now on to edgeguarding....for the love of god, if you want to survive, know how to DI. It's the only way you can use your clawshot to grab on to a safe ledge if knock off far. It also happens to be Link's only recovery option that cannot be gimped by the cape and long as clawshot comes out first. Of course if he decides to grab the ledge first then you'd have no choice but to use the Spin-attack in hopes to grab on to the ledge, leaving you at the mercy of Mario's cape, which will kills you thus removing one stock. In the hopes of countering this, use a projectile like the boomerang as your coming back (which most likely won't hit you if reflected). This will ether knock Mario off the stage or cause him to stay on the edge with the last of his invincibility-frames til your Spin-attack knocks him off. Still, it's no to safe bet you'll always make it back.

All in all, Mario is one of the funnest match-ups you'll ever have.
 

sasook

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Anonano, learn to reverse bombslide for flat stages like FD and SV. Getting CG'd is harder if you bomb spam AND move away at the same time.
 

Anonano

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Anonano, learn to reverse bombslide for flat stages like FD and SV. Getting CG'd is harder if you bomb spam AND move away at the same time.
You know I can bombslide Sasook. :laugh:
It helps but it can't really win you the battle on FD or Smashville.
 

Remzi

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Would I be right if I guess Yoshi for next week?
 

Anonano

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I guess Marth.
He's about as powerful, but has faster, stronger aerials, a better recovery (who doesn't?) and beats Link in just about everything else (except projectiles, but who needs projectiles when you can just hit them and make them vanish?)
 

Terywj [태리]

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I guess Marth.
He's about as powerful, but has faster, stronger aerials, a better recovery (who doesn't?) and beats Link in just about everything else (except projectiles, but who needs projectiles when you can just hit them and make them vanish?)
Good points there Anonano, but the character has a projectile...which Marth doesn't.

As for the other guesses, you'll just have to wait and see. ^_^

-Ter
 

Twilght Link

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grr marf is a jerk i hate his little dancing blades <.<. I find it best to just use ur shield instead of spotdodging; his attacks chain together and will hit u right after u spotdodge.
 

Kief

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well i hope marth does get covered soon. (as i see my suggestion went unheard)

p.s. cough ikes and diddys also cough wat?
 

sasook

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I second the Diddy request. Also, can we get some matches recorded against some MKs? Preferably from the higher up Links? I read the matchup like 3x, but I still struggle against them. But yeah, Diddy - we need that matchup pronto. MK can wait for all I care.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Here's what I'll do:

Next week: ???
Week after: Diddy*
Week after that: ??? (I have a character in mind)

*I don't play a really pro Diddy, but I'll see what I can do. :)

-Ter
 

Kief

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diddy will whip out a banana, throw it at me, and hit me with a dash attack while i slip. then he'll proceed to combo me futher. i know what hes gonna do but i still cant get out of it. -_-
 

Phiddlesticks

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Twilght Link

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GameDragonX......what a scary Diddy O_O
Oh God dont remind me sasook. Im still traumatized from the last time he ***** me in a SBR tourney.

Btw sasook nice bombsliding vid, it really helped ( i almost have reverse bombsliding down).

Id like diddy covered next, i face so many of them and i know their playstyles but they have so much momentum in their combos and pressure game
 

Ryos4

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I would say olimar or falco, but their recoveries arnt much better. I would agree with pit but i dont see pits grabs ever really be a problem to link. Yoshi sounds like a good bet too, but his eggs arnt much a a problem.

I agree with lnk specialist. I play both mario and link. And im pretty sure mario will just beat the crap out of a link who is roughly the same skill level. On BF he can beat u down using the platforms, on FD he can fludd u under the stage as u try to recover with spin attack. Not to mention his fludd can just screw u over normally. I would think the best chance link has against mario has to be with his bombs and zair. Link may out range and out prioritize mario, but once he gets inside, its horrible. lol. Another thing that would help with mario would be to slide alot with pivot and smooth boots. Hopefully keep out of his horrible jab cancel grab combos, with utilts , uairs, and bairs.
 

sasook

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Oh God dont remind me sasook. Im still traumatized from the last time he ***** me in a SBR tourney.

Btw sasook nice bombsliding vid, it really helped ( i almost have reverse bombsliding down).

Id like diddy covered next, i face so many of them and i know their playstyles but the have so much momentum in their combos and pressure
Psch, if you've only seen him online, you'll cower if you see him offline. Take a look at this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGh7qC7j4Uo

Yeah ^this is why I second the Diddy request.

And glad you found the video helpful.
 

Deva

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there needs to be quite a few revisions to the current list imo. For one, Mario is a pretty tough matchup for Link. All he has to do is get you off the stage and then edge hog to cap ledge regrab and you die instantly at any % :/. He can actually out spam you since his fire balls come out faster than your rang or bomb counting the time it takes to pull one, arrows being the only faster projectile with the cancel, but even then, pretty useless. To play against Mario you have to be smart about your spam so that you can out camp him at the moments you need to apprach, for example, have a bomb pulled and throw a rang into a bomb throw. then, when you apprach, you have to be extrememly careful about your spacing. use a lot of jabs and zair. dont let him get too close or too far away. If he gets too close you'll get in a fatty combo and off the edge, at which point your basically dead thanks to his cape ledge stall. Just keep in mind smart spam and spacing until you can get in a kill move.


DDD at the competetive level is one of if not Link's worst matchup. 1 grab can lead to an auto kill if the DDD plays the edge game correctly after the CG. you have to spam, and zair and run away the entire match. Not only that, but he can grab you even out of your zair if you dont time it right. Also, you have to play primarily on platforms, so if in a tournament make sure to ban FD. jump down to the ground for a moment to zair and get his attention to come towards you. Then jump right back on the platform and throw a bomb down and force him up to you so you can play him up there, or if at high %, the bomb should send him up towards you, so dair after throwing the bomb down if it hits. Getting grabbed on a platform is safe and the CG wont last very long. This is one of those matchups where 1 mistake can cost you a stock, and making that mistake is extrememly simple.

Bowser isnt extremely difficult, but be pretty careful with your spacing. He has nasty grab release combos on Link, and has more reach than you would think, as well as a good edge game and good kill moves. Dont rush into this match with the mind set that it will be an easy win.

TL is roughly even with Link, but does have a slight advantage. the spam between the two of you is relatively even and most of the match will be spent camping eachother. His projectiles stay out longer and make a better wall for him to fend you off, while your projectiles are quicker and force him to come to you. Your bombs are actually MUCH better than his. Not only do they do more damage, but they have a much larger blast radius. Your jabs and zair outspace his, so take advantage of that when approaching through the spam. Stay at a distance where you can hit him but he can't hit you, because if he closes in he'll get a crazy bair combo on you and you'll be hurting in %. You'll kill him at much lower %s than he'll kill you, so just space and land a good kill move, as well as DI his and you'll be ok. TL does have a slight advantage though.

Sonic is fast and will completely shut down your spam game. In fact, your zair game is extrememly limited as well. instead, spam shff nairs into jabs and chase him down. The sh nair will shut down his spin ball apprach and you can out space him with jab from there and start using zair when you get within that distance. Using a bomb that you recatch while nairing helps a lot since you can also use it in the zair and throw it out there when needed. It's the only semi useful projectile in this matchup and even then, extremely limited.


Just saying, the guid needs a few revisions based on top level character matchups. It's just my input, but overall, nice job.
 

Legan

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there needs to be quite a few revisions to the current list imo. For one, Mario is a pretty tough matchup for Link. All he has to do is get you off the stage and then edge hog to cap ledge regrab and you die instantly at any % :/. He can actually out spam you since his fire balls come out faster than your rang or bomb counting the time it takes to pull one, arrows being the only faster projectile with the cancel, but even then, pretty useless. To play against Mario you have to be smart about your spam so that you can out camp him at the moments you need to apprach, for example, have a bomb pulled and throw a rang into a bomb throw. then, when you apprach, you have to be extrememly careful about your spacing. use a lot of jabs and zair. dont let him get too close or too far away. If he gets too close you'll get in a fatty combo and off the edge, at which point your basically dead thanks to his cape ledge stall. Just keep in mind smart spam and spacing until you can get in a kill move.


DDD at the competetive level is one of if not Link's worst matchup. 1 grab can lead to an auto kill if the DDD plays the edge game correctly after the CG. you have to spam, and zair and run away the entire match. Not only that, but he can grab you even out of your zair if you dont time it right. Also, you have to play primarily on platforms, so if in a tournament make sure to ban FD. jump down to the ground for a moment to zair and get his attention to come towards you. Then jump right back on the platform and throw a bomb down and force him up to you so you can play him up there, or if at high %, the bomb should send him up towards you, so dair after throwing the bomb down if it hits. Getting grabbed on a platform is safe and the CG wont last very long. This is one of those matchups where 1 mistake can cost you a stock, and making that mistake is extrememly simple.

Bowser isnt extremely difficult, but be pretty careful with your spacing. He has nasty grab release combos on Link, and has more reach than you would think, as well as a good edge game and good kill moves. Dont rush into this match with the mind set that it will be an easy win.

TL is roughly even with Link, but does have a slight advantage. the spam between the two of you is relatively even and most of the match will be spent camping eachother. His projectiles stay out longer and make a better wall for him to fend you off, while your projectiles are quicker and force him to come to you. Your bombs are actually MUCH better than his. Not only do they do more damage, but they have a much larger blast radius. Your jabs and zair outspace his, so take advantage of that when approaching through the spam. Stay at a distance where you can hit him but he can't hit you, because if he closes in he'll get a crazy bair combo on you and you'll be hurting in %. You'll kill him at much lower %s than he'll kill you, so just space and land a good kill move, as well as DI his and you'll be ok. TL does have a slight advantage though.

Sonic is fast and will completely shut down your spam game. In fact, your zair game is extrememly limited as well. instead, spam shff nairs into jabs and chase him down. The sh nair will shut down his spin ball apprach and you can out space him with jab from there and start using zair when you get within that distance. Using a bomb that you recatch while nairing helps a lot since you can also use it in the zair and throw it out there when needed. It's the only semi useful projectile in this matchup and even then, extremely limited.


Just saying, the guid needs a few revisions based on top level character matchups. It's just my input, but overall, nice job.
This summary has been 100% approved
 

Twilght Link

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This summary has been 100% approved
Agreed^^

i agree with the difficulty of facing a good mario, and they can spam the crud out of us with those fireballs at close-mid range. Trust deva, ive been a victim of this kind of assault myself. My mario experience is mainly from facing Matt07 from sbr and he was as good if not better than me (not sure now cuz i have not faced him in a while). Mario's bair is a great move for gimping us and i HIGHLY suggest using the zair recover most of the time( when u have the chance) because his FLUDD and cape destroy our already bad normal recovery
 

sasook

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From sbr? Lol Twilight, Matt posts here on these boards pretty often too. Anyways, yeah you gotta play midrange on Mario, lottaaaa spacing. Matt's Mario is good, but Kirin's is just ****. He'll tell you every single combo involving jabs and capes - I learned the hard way. Don't get caught playing close to Mario.
 
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