Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[pichuthedk]

Well upsmash is never really something that I die from in my shiek matches but I have had the occasional bloodlust that has me flip jump kicking , whiff in and dieing to vanish it's kind of annoying knocked out of pools at a tourney one time cause I dropped my first set to a shiek.

Alright so johns Inc. .. I'm going to try and find the strength to finish Ness today and while I'm at it I'll do the rosaluma match up at the same time since I'm well versed in it so drop by the Mu thread if any of you get a chance ; ).

Small edit so I recently got to sit down at a tourney with someone and go into testing the down smash foxtrot boost kick kill setup.

From the findings to those of you who questioned di helping opponents get out.
@Tuen
@Tobi_Whatever @ David Viran

There is only one di input from what we could tell that allows yout to avoid the boost kick , that is di down and away from zss (If she is facing right you hold down and to the right).

However the di input no longer matters when another 25+% gets added on.

All other di inputs still have you get kicked one of them makes you get hit by the reverse hit.

 

[Icemanx5746]

For how active I am in the Skype group, I should probably post more here. Sup guys?

 

[pichuthedk]

Chilling you know hunting bounties...also waiting to see if I'm going to John again after work regarding doing the Rosa Lina mu After work XD.

 

[David Viran]

@ Shaya were you talking about not being able to face both ways when edge canceling down special? If so you can put the stick back to neutral to do the kick backwards and it will still edge cancel.

 

[Shaya]

Please show me the 'backwards' (or standard) kick of down-special being able to edge cancel. I definitely know the forward kick can, but I haven't seen the former.

And I could be missing something really important, but I've put a lot of effort into trying.

 

[David Viran]

You can hold forward or backward or do what ever to set up the edge cancel when doing down special but the stick has to be in neutral position because you want to do the kick backwards and it will still slide off the ledge. I don't really have a way to show videos though.

 

[Shaya]

I have not seen the neutral/backwards kick edge cancel. It's either going through the edge (i.e. below it) or landing with your foot outstretched over the ledge.

The forward momentum kick will edge cancel off a lot less

 

[David Viran]

Well the position is more strict but it does work I was just doing it yesterday.

 

[Remzi]

confirming that backwards kick can edge cancel, definitely trickier though

 

[pichuthedk]

Not just positioning but timing the reason it edge cancels less is possibly because she gains an ever so slight momentum boost when she kicks so you need to do it in a way where she can not really gain that boost a good way to practice I guess is stand a little bit just under a bf platform and practice the kick.

When I get a wii u (next week 18/19 baby were almost there) I might do a flip jump cancel video with the ranges for bf , fd and town and city. Smash villa a pain in the ass at times and it's riskier since you have to divide your attention to where the moving platform will be...
At least town and city give you less attitude when the platforms stay there for a short period of time xD.

 

[Shaya]

Okay, I edge cancelled it.
BUT NOT THE WAY I WANTED IT TO.

I realised that back/default kick still slides you forward, you can only edge cancel from that. Basically what I was hoping/praying for, was the edge cancel from the backwards kick facing the opposing direction. I toiled hard and thought that it should because you're "straight" and then you protrude your leg right out in a jagged motion (it goes horizontal) that seems to push your body in that direction.

In other news, it's pretty easy to edge cancel with it the way it's designed to :<

I think maybe there's a timing angle that has you bring out the back kick in a way that hits below the ledge while still moving forward (but you wouldn't be able to do it from off stage/the ledge), still something to look at/practice.

 

[pichuthedk]

well you can also just not throw out the kick but i kinda feel like that way is more difficult because she doesn't gain momentum.

 

[BatShark]

I should never watch my streamed and commentated matches after the fact. 80% of the commentary was criticism about my overuse of Boost Kick.

I finished that particular set 2-0 with Boost Kick followed by Boost Kick to end game 1, then ending game 2 with Boost Kick.

Deal with it.

 

[Shaya]

If you're winning it doesn't matter.

well you can also just not throw out the kick but i kinda feel like that way is more difficult because she doesn't gain momentum.

I'm confused?

I want to kick/be able to attack people and get away with it for free

 

[pichuthedk]

If you're winning it doesn't matter.



I'm confused?

I want to kick/be able to attack people and get away with it for free

Zss slides when she lands from flip jump regardless of the kick or not if you figure out the spacing required you can literally just input flip jump , not hold and direction nor press any buttons she will land and slide a tad I found this out in the 3ds version first few days in. So theoretically you can do the above I mentioned and just wait anticipatING her sliding off so you are ready to do the desired input /attack you want.


Ah so rereading what you said (bumpy car rides are so fun...)

The only way you can possibly kick for "free "and get away with it is if you preform the kick so that zss is high enough to land on the top platform of bf.

Doing this let's you jump about half a shields height before you hit the ground, I've used this to my advantage numerous times but I still prefer to do it on bf because landing on the top platform gives you a safer ride..

 

[David Viran]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2yyp6a/this_is_why_i_think_mr_game_and_watch_beats_zero/

This has been getting some attention.

@ Shaya I noticed not too long ago you thought the G&W MU was in our favor. What do you think of it now?

 

[Shaya]

I probably said at the time "but crouching".

G&W isn't the only croucher who none of those moves will hit. You abuse G&W's lack of safety on shield and range.

Ftilt/dtilt and dsmash are gud against him, dash attack OoS from G&W can punish things.

 

[David Viran]

Crouching looks like it kind of got blown out of proportion on reddit but hey it's reddit.

 

[pichuthedk]

Ok so I found that to be kinda bias and I tried to post earlier but smash boards wasdoing maintenence so I don't even see it.

This is the post I made on the reddit tell me if you guys think that what I posted was somewhat agreeable or if I am crazy.

Side b explosion hitbox will hit him if he's crouching if spaced properly.

You used like everything except the moves that hit low enough.

D-tilt , low angled f-tilt downsmash , and sh immediate dair I doubt the last hit of her upsmash will hit him but if that's all she can do given the circumstances, maybe she needs to do the things she normally can't do like just jump at g&w and footstool him since that should still put him in the "did you just jump off my head?" Animation.

 

[Shaya]

shoot a paralyzer shot, bait the bucket, 0-death him

I put a lot of time into my G&W and I stay away from match up "numbers" with him because I think the guy has all the tools needed to win, hence I'm usually winning the same amount in every match up. Seeing the amount of love/understanding I've put into ZSS as well, I could probably make the match up look quite disgusting, but I've done the same for any character against all sorts of players.

ZSS has a lot of things G&W tends to like, which is light weight, tall, lacks disjoints (Pit/Marth/etc are extremely tedious for him), lacks "bread and butter" powerful kill moves, doesn't have great landing options. G&W's dash attack is like the bees knees, and she really just paints a "please hit me with it" sign every time she jumps. But like... ugh, ZSS can grab every attack basically on whiff/shield/etc and that usually is more rewarding than G&W's stuff.

 

[pichuthedk]

Zzzzzzz is down throw to up air for death to living and dying by the boost kick a sure thing? Could a sworn g&w would be stupid to take us to bf and fd is to high for that.

 

[Shaya]

PARACHUTE.

how about a flip kick instead?
Battlefield is pretty okay for G&W, lot's of edge cancel chefs; parachute and up air are kinda stupid.

Bad things happening to G&W on Battlefield against ZSS is still probably a thing though.

 

[pichuthedk]

PARACHUTE.

how about a flip kick instead?
Battlefield is pretty okay for G&W, lot's of edge cancel chefs; parachute and up air are kinda stupid.

Bad things happening to G&W on Battlefield against ZSS is still probably a thing though.

For me personally I never lose to g&ws unless it's 2v2 bucket teams at which point I do ok most of the time.

In terms of 1v1 I guess I need to face the competent ones more that are aware and abuse the crouching factor.

 

[David Viran]

I just heard nairo say that Mr.R is picking up zss. Now I want to see his zss.

 

[Shaya]

It's probably my fault for calling his ZSS trash :>

I'm guessing he's been learning her over the past few days he's been streaming. She is very Marth-like.

 

[pichuthedk]

It's probably my fault for calling his ZSS trash :>

I'm guessing he's been learning her over the past few days he's been streaming. She is very Marth-like.

I guess that's a " fair" assessment although I feel like she only has 2 tippers that will straight up murder you (flip jump kick and side b 1s stage spiking)... well 3 if you count high % up tilts when people are on bf platforms xD.

 

[Shaya]

She's a frame trapping based character using spacing as her main means of enforcing them.

There's tons of max-range "sweetspots" on Zamus:
1. Jab1 knocks upwards (i.e. into up-b) on it's furthest reach
2. Sour spot dash attack comboing into things (i.e. up b) on it's later frames (kinda)
3. Her heel 'hitbox' (and some other part) is the higher damage/sweetspot on ftilt/dtilt
4. Fsmash heels have the most kill power too I believe.
5. Bair does extra damage on its tipper
6. Zair has a sweetspot at it's end, I love that 6 damage feeling.

Side-b and down-b stuff is whatever, it usually works out.
Dsmash also has a weaker hit on it's maximum range, which has some implications.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah pretty know all of that stuff was talking in terms of straight up murder at even low %

But for ftilt I could a sworn it was just low and high angled doing more damage and now that I think about it nair must have a tipper as well since alot of the time you do 10% but the rest of the time you do 12%... kinda weird and the joke was the word "fair " since Marth used to Fair you for days lol.

Well he might still be able to I use lucina and my lucina is trash so....

Jab 1 -> up b is pretty legit though I've even pulled some none sensible Shinanegans like downsmash -> jab 1 -> downsmash to jab1-> boost kick was beautiful remembering it brings tears to my eyes T.T.

Run off stage max range zair is kinda funny as **** when used against people with ******** recoveries, suddenly it's not so ridiculous.

 

[Shaya]

Meh, Marth wasn't about that in Brawl and was "kinda" about that in Melee (like he killed early, but so does everyone else).
I remember I got a fresh tipper fsmash on Wario from a grab release in tournament once and he survived at 130%something.
Disgusting.

But yeah now, well sure. Zamus has no murdering attacks in her arsenal at all (she's the worst at punishing missed jiggly rests :<), but that's not what it was all about for us Marth-players.

 

[Jaxas]

But yeah now, well sure. Zamus has no murdering attacks in her arsenal at all (she's the worst at punishing missed jiggly rests :<), but that's not what it was all about for us Marth-players.

Well ****. Both of my characters are bad at this...

 

[pichuthedk]

Well ****. Both of my characters are bad at this...

It's ok I'm still lamenting about how I am lacking some of the key crucial fundamentals required to play zammy at top level T.T.

Whelp until I get out of this "oh so it's my last stock huh?" Syndrome I'll be a permanent member of the #midlevelplaya4lyfe. A friend and I discussed it a bit one time and we both came to the conclusion for us at least can't speak for everyone.

First stock your kinda like trying to kill them obviously and letting small mistakes that seem rather stupid when you think about them happen.

Second stock is more like ok things are looking dicey gotta step it up a bit (especially if you are behind a stock )

3RD stock can only be summarized with the following short sentence "ok so now I have to try?"

It's terrible and toxic to my confidence when I have lower level players bring me to one stock and then I straight up style on their face...

I Just feel like with 4 years of tournaments playing,I should just annihilate those who are significantly below the level of skill I have surpassed.

Dat arrogance doh?

 

[David Viran]

We may not have the strongest Smash attacks like I don't think jiggly puff ever even thinks about resting link. I can't imagine how hard his fsmash would wreck her. But we still got jiggs with a fully charged fsmash that kills like 70 % from the center. Also I think sheik is worse at it she can't tipper usmash on jiggs.

 

[Jaxas]

We may not have the strongest Smash attacks like I don't think jiggly puff ever even thinks about resting link. I can't imagine how hard his fsmash would wreck her. But we still got jiggs with a fully charged fsmash that kills like 70 % from the center. Also I think sheik is worse at it she can't tipper usmash on jiggs.

Yeah, Sheik's best rest punish is chucking a grenade past Jigglypuff (if it hits her it wakes her up...), then comboing it into a Bouncing Fish for about 30%, and a kill at high percent. Not absolute trash, but...

Also doesn't help that her Fsmash just whiffs the 2nd hit sometimes, so you can't just charge that. Is that the same for ZSS?

 

[extremechiton]

See has some really good rest punishes.
Fully charged dsmash to follow up

I've done some extensive testing with my favorite combo of
Fully charged paralyzed>flip jump into hurry>dsmash (can charge depending on percent) > flip kick. (Or boost kick)

All of which does well over 40% and kills

 

[David Viran]

Yeah, Sheik's best rest punish is chucking a grenade past Jigglypuff (if it hits her it wakes her up...), then comboing it into a Bouncing Fish for about 30%, and a kill at high percent. Not absolute trash, but...

Also doesn't help that her Fsmash just whiffs the 2nd hit sometimes, so you can't just charge that. Is that the same for ZSS?

No it does not randomly whiff. Also I found out a partial charged fsmash that does 18% about has comparable kill power to a Diddy fsmash actually I think slightly more. Choco had it right all along to go for a charged fsmash out of dsmash.

 

[PF9]

anyone find it ironic that in the Metroid games, being in the Zero Suit is not ideal for Samus, yet ZSS is higher than "Power Suit Samus" on the tier list?

 

[David Viran]

anyone find it ironic that in the Metroid games, being in the Zero Suit is not ideal for Samus, yet ZSS is higher than "Power Suit Samus" on the tier list?

That's because she didn't have da whip and jet heels.

 

[pichuthedk]

morph ball is not "ideal" when there are people like gannon who will just punt your ass out of the arena. that is probably why power suit isn't up there...
I guess there is also the fact that space pirates don't have the magical ability to flick a piece of fabric in their wrist and have it reflect your most powerful beam shot back at you. *sigh* hate that plumber.

 

[extremechiton]

BUuuuuut star Fox doesn't have a cape.

And mario doesn't have a super shiney wrist watch

 

[David Viran]

And everybody has the ability to just block your most powerful beam.