The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[-Axis-]

:D welcome back!

I glanced at the vid for a bit.

Instead of tapping down, you can also do a B-reversal:

[Back]+[ B]-quickly- [Forward]

Less chance of accidentally fastfalling ;p

I find that spinshotting with side-b requires me to charge for a bit before releasing the buttons. Because of this, I don't spinshot early enough. Am I just doinitrong?

 

[Zatchiel]

I find that spinshotting with side-b requires me to charge for a bit before releasing the buttons. Because of this, I don't spinshot early enough. Am I just doinitrong?

No, i actually find it difficult to Spinshot with SideB, i started off Spinshotting with SideB.
I do still use SideB for onstage Spinshot, but i do tend to charge it a bit; I never try to do a quickie ^_^

 

[B.A.M.]

dude this is old news. ive talked about this in the FAQ as well. If u just run off and spinshot the ledge just right you also perform a slide on the ground when hitting the ledge.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, I decided that since I had some time, I'd test out the SideB and DownB ledgeshooting shenanigans.

I'll post my findings on the SGD or something.

Speaking of which, this thread is currently being updated. I'll edit when it's complete.

EDIT: Thread Updated

A bunch of new content was added. Videos of Falco, Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Link, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Mario, Marth, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Mr. G&W, Snake, Wolf, Zelda, Wario, and Toon Link were added, along with some Miscellaneous content and a tutorial vid.

Check them out if you haven't already.

 

[Sperz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lara_lHCrAM&feature=player_embedded



This is my combo video I recently made.




I know I'm still a crap-sonic but I had fun making it.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Video quality was a bit iffy but it was pretty cool, nice stage spikes!

 

[infomon]

+1 for using sonic sez

you seem decent IMO, but it's your opponents who seem very questionable. A lot of your stuff was quite obviously capitalizing on their mistakes / bad habits (like hanging on the edge too long). but that's ok, it's a combo video lolz.

but IMO it was a bit too long too.

tho some of your beating on falco's was fun lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

I had a couple jaw drop moments watching that vid.

So to answer your question, Yes, you may have a small partaking of the steak now.

 

[Joemama8]

Not bad. You got lots a love for Dair traps! Keep it up.

 

[Tenki]

some moments screamed wifi at me.
but it's k. I like the d-air stuff. I don't think I've attempted the d-air gimp kick for a while now xD

 

[~TBS~]

hmm...some new vids of me finally.

Speed vs BetaZe@lot R1/R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeMNeyhbsNo&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw3jJRe4HSk&feature=channel

Shado told me that...im too predictable. I really actually believe that (Espy, I talked to you the other day about this.) and am now working around ways to get past it. i've found some gimmicks to add, but i'll strengthen my reading skills and reaction times. I cant give up...

Here's me and shado on teams. double sonic got ShadoMaster5th though...effff.
Shado+Speed vs Tanman+Sage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qefrZ6WHofs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHtc-ujM4vE&feature=related

Shado+Speed vs PinkFresh+K9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD6c-NgNu_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Thi2cwF0k

And here's cheapness at its best. its ok though, K9/Pf mah crewmates. (Even if this was reeeeaaallllllyyy baaad.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLzOjGRCuA8

sorry for the bulk of vids...but its up here for those who wanna see. :x
Gotta step it up!

 

[infomon]

SM5 watched the first vid. Here are your approaches:

• dash-attack
• run in and grab
• run past him and pivot-grab
• dash past him and side-B backwards
• spindash

Notable absentees:

• run in and Fair/Uair (incl. run in and shield for one or two frames just in case he attacks, it will powershield and then you're jumping OoS into the aerial so you barely lose any time for it)
• spaced bairs
• hmmm idk what else, wow I'm a bad sonic

idk
Good stuff with Ftilt, nice to see someone use it.

 

[Tenki]

First Match
Too many cases were it looked like you locked up and then reacted too late O_o;
like, if I didn't know better, I thought it was wifi screwing you up.

ex: you missed grabs, failed punishments, got hit, all because you were reacting like .5-1 second too late. It was really bizarre. The moves woulda been good otherwise.

infz - he does f-air approach sometimes. also, his u-air approaches seem to get hopped over and b-aired in the first match. either predicted or misspaced is all :/

oya, definitely needa get better at predicting / punishing (or is it... preventing?!) that falco sideB. A large majority of the time, you're predicting him to use it at ground level, but he actually spaces it to fly over your up-tilted F-smash.

You more experienced players can tell me about this, but I'd either try to hit Falco either before he uses side-B or by camping the center of the stage (make them gamble on cancelling correctly).

2nd match
first SDR>roll off on platform : you could have shieldcancelled the landing, but it looked like you were just trying it out. Too bad he grabbed you for it X.x;
I wonder if you could have pulled the drop off backwards (create some space) > shield cancel/spotdodge to punish grab.

- I really like the run behind > side-B thing you do lol. Wanna try the run behind > side-B grab?

2nd stock kill, I liked the drop down N-air (lol tricked me into thinking ASC) > Fsmash. nice.

looks like you caught on to his side-B patterns in the second match
In the middle you got an F-tilt, and on the last kill, you got an Fsmash off of it.

Have you tried ending a jablock with an ASC combo? I mean, grab is cool, but I wonder if it gives a better damage/placement return.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Have you tried ending a jablock with an ASC combo? I mean, grab is cool, but I wonder if it gives a better damage/placement return.

this, if they sdi the jabs, just asc or spin charge, maybe even spindash footstool for more mind games or something. only time you should grab is if you :
1: already know what they are going to do after, or
2. are at kill %s, because grab can be a better kill setup than ASC.

also, in regards to the phantasm thing.

Since falco is my tourney second now, Id say that the move that covers the highest amount of falcos options when recovering, is to grab the ledge.

falco cant grab the ledge then. so he has to side b on stage.
which you can punish with a ledge hopped down b, pretty much no matter how far into the stage he gets.
and if he lands on a platform on bf, you can just ledgehop a fair, up air or bair depending on his spacing.

 

[Tenki]

Since falco is my tourney second now, Id say that the move that covers the highest amount of falcos options when recovering, is to grab the ledge.

falco cant grab the ledge then. so he has to side b on stage.
which you can punish with a ledge hopped down b, pretty much no matter how far into the stage he gets.
and if he lands on a platform on bf, you can just ledgehop a fair, up air or bair depending on his spacing.

You mean the edge guarder grabbing the ledge ?

What I usually do is stay near the edge- it's usually enough to make Falco want to go for the middle of the stage, to avoid the risk of getting ledgehogged? Would that make the punishment options larger, or does the whole ledgehop invincibility thing/high jump give you some other benefit?

 

[JayBee]

he played it very well IMO, mistakes aside, i try not to put too much on the mistakes unless it was something major that i didn't think he would be making. lol. the key in this set against this falco was that he didn't have as much understanding in the sonic matchup as the other falcos ive seen him play did, they almost never messed up cg's when they got him. that told me right off the bat he lacked sonic exp, when this happened multiple times.

speed showed him unique gimmicks too, things that the average good sonic don't do often, like those b reveses or even those turarond ASC's out of dash. if speed simply did what someone mentioned earlier and grabbed the ledge, it would have put him in a more force position to be punished, and made it easier to guess what he'd do, the speed would punish him when he side b'd all day. he took a more conservative approach which is fine, if you go out there and lets say you used a jump to try and hit him, and he side b's past you, its gonna put sonic in a bad position when he has to return, so instead of that he opted to never be in that situation, which is acceptable.

i also saw another thing that speed seems to have taken to heart ever since pound against falcos that dont knwo the matchup: hogging the ledge when sonic is lead, when the falco has no intention to approach, basically kills the laser strat dead. good stuff man.

at this point speed should have this matchup down pat, and only the best falcos with sonic exp shoudl give him problems IMO. The only thing i can say that no one else said yet is that when ever sonic tries to follow up a falco in trouble, almost ALWAYS expect a dair or bair couter attempt as they fall and give your self extra space to punish that instead. this isn't brawl minus, speed.

 

[Tenki]

ITT:Falco Matchup Discussion

[1] i also saw another thing that speed seems to have taken to heart ever since pound against falcos that dont knwo the matchup: hogging the ledge when sonic is lead, when the falco has no intention to approach, basically kills the laser strat dead. good stuff man.

[2] at this point speed should have this matchup down pat, and only the best falcos with sonic exp shoudl give him problems IMO. The only thing i can say that no one else said yet is that when ever sonic tries to follow up a falco in trouble, almost ALWAYS expect a dair or bair couter attempt as they fall and give your self extra space to punish that instead. this isn't brawl minus, speed.

[1] Ya, even though it made the 1st match last longer, it worked lol x]

[2] Definitely noticed that the Falco always seemed to be just above his D-air range, or just enough to counter a misspaced U-air with B-air. It was like, lv9 comp-style spacing (lol, the kind where they jump perfectly so they can footstool you / make you miss), except tailored to counterattack x.x;

Was that a side-effect of DI or does Falco's jumps just set him up that way? o.O

 

[~TBS~]

yeah thanks guys...im watching some of my other matches atm, and im noticing alooooot of things. I see what i have to improve. i think i know what to do now in terms of not falling into a pattern. We'll see next weekend...big regional next week. If im just thinking i know, i'll at least be doing something different lol.

Speed goes OoS no johns.

 

[JayBee]

[1] Ya, even though it made the 1st match last longer, it worked lol x]

[2] Definitely noticed that the Falco always seemed to be just above his D-air range, or just enough to counter a misspaced U-air with B-air. It was like, lv9 comp-style spacing (lol, the kind where they jump perfectly so they can footstool you / make you miss), except tailored to counterattack x.x;

Was that a side-effect of DI or does Falco's jumps just set him up that way? o.O

DI is always an issue, but i have a feeling that this particular falco was not making that much of a factor in those situaitons. but i'd still expect those attacks, just as yould expect AD's more often than not from a snake in that situation, or a bair from kirby in that siutaion to come out.

 

[MalcolmM]

Tenki keep doing what ur doing. It covers more options.

(Talking about standing next to the ledge as opposed to grabbing it)

 

[Sonic Orochi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgM2n-IdTk

@0:08: ASC is as good as it is, but is this a good alternative to people shielding it? I think I should've grabbed but, meh, it's IC. And it's wifi.

 

[Espy Rose]

What exactly happened to launch you? Footstool?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yes, most probably. I don't even know if that's easily replicable.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's not. Especially against fatties, and especially if you're not angled right, which requires time that you don't have to position yourself before they figure out your next approach.

Which is why you feint into an SDR into fair/nair for free damage.

So yeah, it's good.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I see, oh well, so much for a new AT.

Might as well post these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgM2n-IdTk - SonicOrochi (Sonic) vs MTAFE (Ice Climbers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi4hK7c_yms - SonicOrochi (Sonic) vs MTAFE (Toon Link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj3UIHO2TGQ - SonicOrochi (Sonic) vs FFB (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUzDH5HYVJA - SonicOrochi (Sonic) vs FFB (Diddy)

All wifi

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You REALLY like glide toss to Fsmash. lol

 

[Sonic Orochi]

You REALLY like glide toss to Fsmash. lol

It's more like: I ONLY know to glide toss to fsmash... hehe

But I'm trying to step up my game... it's hard though. =\

 

[B.A.M.]

yeah dude just as Malcom said and ive stated it in the matchup thread. Standing next to the ledge screws with falco's options more than grabbing it. its possible to grab the ledge on reaction and things like ftilt will stop side b in its tracks. trust me; i play with the falco king as well as Tyrants falco over here. ish works.

 

[da K.I.D.]

were we even talking about falco? where did that even come from?

not that its not valuable information, just random...

 

[Joemama8]

Hai guyz, i made a thing... The name is super generic so if its already taken im sorry w/e.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3slm2pYzH4

now if you don't mind, there is a massive cherry pie with my name on it.

 

[Tenki]

Hai guyz, i made a thing... The name is super generic so if its already taken im sorry w/e.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3slm2pYzH4

now if you don't mind, there is a massive cherry pie with my name on it.

lol i clicked around to skip the intro footage and the first thing i saw was uthrow > spring > b-air c0m8o


- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3slm2pYzH4#t=1m42s
KID would be proud.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3slm2pYzH4#t=3m6s
loooll nice.

It's more like: I ONLY know to glide toss to fsmash... hehe

But I'm trying to step up my game... it's hard though. =\

Try jump-cancel throws.
like, if you have a banana and you're running, do the input for SH f-air and you'll basically do the forward glide toss, except at whatever speed you were running with.

you can aim the direction you're throwing too, intuitively.

Anyway, try grabbing too, instead of F-smash. I mean, Diddy does it to you, why not try it lol.

 

[Joemama8]

spring to bair..... hitting people who forget to DI since 2008.

 

[Arikie]

Critique please

CRITIQUE PLEASE
I've only got friendlies, sorry, but I'm trying to get ready for a tournament on the 22nd.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93JWNt1o29w Arikie(sonic) vs pandy(marth)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrqSzWcX2E Arikie(sonic) vs pandy(marth)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCWXLn3kwHY Arikie(sonic) vs 00ZERO(ice climbers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFradcyr4aE Arikie(sonic) vs ignis(snake)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXCSCwS0fgM Arikie(sonic) vs YagamiLight(ike)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-m0N6u2WNw Arikie(sonic) vs YagamiLight(ike)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5a8I7tyeOI Arikie(sonic) vs YagamiLight(ike)

CRITIQUE PLEASE

 

[Kinzer]

That Ice Climbers...

Err, nevermind I guess. You shouldn't use Bair as a direct approach. At least not against them. If you can make it work, use Bair out of a Spinshot, it can cover for you and you can either continue attacking if you feel safe enough afterwards, or retreat if it connects with a shield thanks to it's pushback, relatively low landing lag, and perhaps a little bit of shieldstun too?

Against Marth, try to cut back on attacks that leave you open for a counter-attack. Dancing Blade for racking up damage, and a tippered FSmash for the kill gives you an idea of what happens if the attack doesn't connect. Plus Smash attacks aren't going to be killing him anytime before 85% at the very least. That would probably only work at the ledge and maybe some bad DI thrown in there. :/

Go ahead and try to make Spring Gimps work against Ike. Even if the Spring doesn't hit it's easier for you to try to punish whatever get-up he may have, plus it makes it harder for him to punish you. That first stock loss should be enough to convince you why; Granted Ike wasn't recovering but it's the same idea... ouch.

Hope that helps.

Oh~, you used to much SDR approaching against Snake. I admit it's okay for a while but not where it gets to the point he spotdodges/shields it majority of the time. You think you can try to use Snake's Grenades against him more? I only saw one instance out of that whole match where you tried something. Even if he strips you you may be able to grab out of that Glide-toss or whatever other appropriate punishment method if available to you at the moment (if there are any).

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3slm2pYzH4#t=3m6s
loooll nice.

2nd. Love ya RogueBlades.

 

[Trent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmMrwcacpA8

Combo video I finally went about making. Pretty much just clips from my first year of taking this game competitively with Sonic.

 

[Joemama8]

gogo sonic combo vids! Good stuff trent.

 

[Espy Rose]

Took eons, but my games vs Jerm in April finally got the third match up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygdIsll39a4

Also, WHOBO teams of me and Prime are up.

I played terrible, lol.

 

[Arikie]

post

Thanks, that is very helpful to me.

Its been a while and I've gotten some more videos and I think I may have improved some.
If you guys wouldn't mind watching some of these for critiques or advice or other comments I would be thankful.

I put the lengths of the videos so that people who don't have much time can look at the shorter matches.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdy...t&p=DE018875F4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 5:37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycXE...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=5&shuffle=1023 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 4:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKqr...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=8&shuffle=1023 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 3:08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaME...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=0&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 4:59


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g29...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=1&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 3:37 this match....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uovf...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=2&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 3:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRra...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=9&shuffle=1023 siege(marth) vs sonic(arikie) this is my favorite match. 2:33 very short match...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcSGTKVeA3I siege(marth) vs sonic(arikie) 3:59 meh...

CRITIQUE PLEASE

 

[Zatchiel]

Thanks, that is very helpful to me.

Its been a while and I've gotten some more videos and I think I may have improved some.
If you guys wouldn't mind watching some of these for critiques or advice or other comments I would be thankful.

I put the lengths of the videos so that people who don't have much time can look at the shorter matches.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdy...t&p=DE018875F4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 5:37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycXE...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=5&shuffle=1023 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 4:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKqr...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=8&shuffle=1023 siege(mk) vs arikie(sonic) 3:08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaME...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=0&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 4:59


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g29...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=1&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 3:37 this match....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uovf...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=2&shuffle=1023 siege(GaW) vs arikie(sonic) 3:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRra...4F320C1&playnext_from=PL&index=9&shuffle=1023 siege(marth) vs sonic(arikie) this is my favorite match. 2:33 very short match...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcSGTKVeA3I siege(marth) vs sonic(arikie) 3:59 meh...

CRITIQUE PLEASE

Nice Sonic dude, but all i can say is, you make Texture Hacks look fun o.o