The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[JayBee]

kk Here is my match vs MEeP! the Icees. Ive been working on this new style of Sonic for awhile and here it is put all together. Please Critic me and my Scrubness *bows*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNPgJ82EyPw

on the second stock you let Meep get the timing for the spin dashes. this was a two stock for you until you did that. next time you get a big lead like that id suggest you make them come to you. they do it to sonic all the time. im not saying dont be hyper active and move around, but when it was 3 to 1 he clearly was just sitting there smashing and waiting for you to come at him so he can get the gaygarbs. screw that strategy, see it, and make him do something else. he has to. but i still liked what I saw. good stuff. just pay more attention to when your opponent is baiting, and when they are waiting/ camping, and adjust.

It's funny how a Sonic can just beast a good player when they dont know the matchup lol.

 

[B.A.M.]

I really dont understand why he didnt just pivot grab your spindashes. Or just plain ole shield grab. Very nice looking sonic Shado, but alot things straight up shouldnt have worked. Your DDP is wonderful.You had tons of mixup sans your spindashing which is where you are most vunerable in my opinion during this matchup. Spindashing is the key to winning this steak in my opinion but it has to be done intelligently spindashing from across the stage without the invincibility intact should be a stock gone. Especially when u dont even jump cancel it. blizzard wouldve simply rocked that attempt in the face as well.

 

[ShadoFiend]

I'm pretty sure i would have adapted to it if he did it. I don't fall for the same thing over and over again. I learn from my dumb mistakes.

 

[B.A.M.]

i know that for sure Shado, i actually love your style. However as far as critiquing you inorder to better you in this matchup is very hard when the opponent doesnt even know it. The things I stated are among the more difficult vices sonic has to overcome in the matchup. The times where he acted appropriately, he slaughtered your stocks. Which is why this matchup is hard, you have to play cautious the entire match. IF you approach in such an obvious manner, you lose a stock. not from many mistakes, just one. Which is why you have to play safe even if it seems the opponent may not know the matchup. Cuz meep sure didnt and yet it went from a 3 stock to 1 just like that. Spindashing has to be done in a smarter manner especially when you up against IC which have the most dangerous punishment in the game (0-death). As i stated before, i love your sonics footwork (so sexy) and i love you watching videos of your sonic. Keep it up!

 

[meepxzero]

lol sonics heavily critiquing a match i didnt care much for. I know bout the bs sonic does in yoshis island and i will always have it banned. Your good shadowfiend but if its not yoshis island i would pivot grab spin dash all day when its not invincible and you know it.

Sonic should always win on yoshis imo because of a horribly exploitable glitch.

 

[Browny]

horribly exploitable glitch

LMAO are you serious?!?!

thats sig-worthy stuff right there. holy hell do you realise what you just said?

Sonics invincible roll is a GAME MECHANIC. nothing else. its just as much as a glitch as chaingrabs in case you dont see what im getting at here

 

[4nace]

Yea that match was pretty entertaining, but its not really the best way to play ICs it seems. Super aggressive with spin dash is only going to make you lose faster.

Youtube Shugo vs Lain to see ways to do that match up.

He almost beats Lain by clock out the first game and plays very very cautiously. Also @ Meep, you could just blizzard to clang the invinci frames and then grab no? Sonic should not be beating ICs even on yoshi's if both parties know the match up.

 

[Kinzer]

Sonic is invincible throughout his whole roll as long as he does not turn or jump out of his iSDR. Any attack with transcendent priority will be COMPLETELY ignored, and it is in the ICs players' best interest to not use Blizzard in that case.

 

[4nace]

Ahh gotcha. Well I know for a fact at that iSDR is very clang-able and it doesn't change any match-ups too drastically.


I was wondering why MKs forward air was particularly ineffective against iSDR.

 

[Shugo-Chan]

maybe i should take ic's to YI from now on O:! but no don't search me vs lain. lol i dont get why people think i know that matchup and i have no idea what im doing the whole time lol. i just do w/e and hope it works, and pray i don't get grabbed.

 

[Kinzer]

Hope they don't ban that stage against you Shugo, otherwise you'll have to camp and play... DMG Gay.

Really though, even if you don't/didn't know the MU, your set Vs. Lain is the best example we have right now for aspiring Sonic mains, if only because it displayst he highest level of play from both sides. If it matters at all, your matches helped me better realize that I couldn't play all-out aggressive when I myself was faced with an ICs in-tourney.

 

[Shugo-Chan]

Ahahaha yeah thanks. That's the first time I've played super safe like that against IC's, and it didn't turn out too bad either. Every set me and lain have gets closer and closer lol. I can't believe i lost by like 7% first game and techrolled into an f-air 3rd game...I still feel like an idiot for doing that.

We are talking about my most recent set with him right? Cuz my first time playing him was horrible.

 

[Kinzer]

Yes Shugo, The one that had the Sonic SatAM theme being recited.

Sawnik!

He can really move!

Sawnik!

He's got an attitude!

Sawnik!

He's the fastest thing ali-he-ive!

 

[Shugo-Chan]

Lolllllll of course. Thanks, but i dont think i'll ever get a hang of that matchup. it's very ghey and imo near impossible. :/ sonic has to get in too close and it gets very risky.

 

[Espy Rose]

I saw that set vs. Lain earlier today.
You did a good job, albeit an error or two here and there. And that first match kinda sucked a bit.

I would say keep the pressure on Nana whenever you separate them. You did great keeping away and spacing, but whenever you had them separated, you always seemed a bit lost, and there were several times where there was a Nana gimp opportunity and you didn't take it.

 

[Kinzer]

Near impossible?

You seemed to do a great job despite what you're saying now... Hmm...

Ah well, I'm not going to say anything more. certainly my opinion doesn't hold as much weight having not played a well-known, respected, and/or skilled ICs (he couldn't even finish me off with a smash attack when he had me pinned...)

DI, SON! WHERE YOU AT?!?

 

[meepxzero]

sorry anything that makes u completely invincible and gives you the option of attacking is kinda broken imo. Imagine mk if he could never get hit outta tornado that would be rediculous. And blizzard does not work against the invincible spindash nor does anything clank it. THe only thing i could do is perfect shield grab it. I guess invinciblity frames are gone once im hit?

I remember thats how speed beat me a round and i was pretty mindfuked the rest of the set assuming the spindash was invincible and he was doing something completely different from every other sonic, but really that glitch is so stage specific.

Dont know what even works against that attack im assuming nothing does.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Exploitable glitch is funny cause an Icies said it.

Besides. All you have to do is move/shield. You can't HIT it but it still has the other weaknesses of a spindash.

 

[Shugo-Chan]

lolol Yoshi's Island. xD.

@Espy- I think i did a pretty good job of killing nana and what not a lot more than what i've done in the past. Especially on SV..I think i would've had him if weren't for that stupid tech roll : (, but sometimes when I go after her she'll like get up attack or something lol iono. it's weird, but w/e.

 

[infomon]

Actually you can just hit the iSDR with any attack that doesn't have transcendent priority (ex. a jab, not a blizzard). It won't hurt Sonic but it will stop the iSDR and you'll be in a neutral position in front of each other on the same frame afaik. and the iSDR isn't invincible once it leaves the ground, which is the only way for Sonic to abort it if he thinks he's gon get (pivot)-grabbed out of it. so no whining from u!!!!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

INFZY! Dude. Bro.

Uhhh is it all attacks? Or does it follow ground priority rules. i.e. a fully charged Ike Fsmash would obliterate us?

 

[infomon]

No, Ike's Fsmash would clash with it lol and you'll both be reset. afaik

 

[Espy Rose]

INFZY! Dude. Bro.

Uhhh is it all attacks? Or does it follow ground priority rules. i.e. a fully charged Ike Fsmash would obliterate us?

Anything without that transcendent priority clanks with Sonic. An Ike fsmash will therefore clank, even if only the sword touches him.

And Meep, I'm sorry you can't abuse an easy-to-counter stage gimmick.

 

[B.A.M.]

^^^ yeah iSDR is isnt some omnipotent move. theres a myriad of things that couldve been done meep, and he didnt always iSDR (again maybe youre not used to playing a sonic main at the level of Shado). Pivot grab should flat out own alot of approaches.

Shugo, good stuff on ICs! You and Espy have definitely improved in these matchups and its great for all of us to have some kind of visual reference point if needed on how to play this matchup. Now if i could only receive that for Falco and DDD ( I own most D3s but i got wrecked by CPU the other day) .....

 

[ShadoFiend]

Guys leave Meep be lol. I like him :/

We'll see how well I do on a non gimmick level next time. But i think I would run the whole match if I were to play him on another level. That's what I did vs Ninjalink's Icees when I played them and it was pretty effective. I get reckless on Yoshi's just because the stage. And the Gimmick on the stage.

And if Pictochat ever gets unbanned I wll Def be doing it there aswell. Oh you didnt know? Holllaaa loll. But yea I never play Meep in brackets. Oct 17th i'll get my chance if I get in his bracket or not. We'll see. If not then Speed will have to take over for me. I trust he'll do just as good or better than me in the match up

 

[chaoechidna]

Scourge, as always, awesome game. I think that ICs are such a bad MU with the whole chaingrab, and it was a breath of fresh air to see you win that (and it not be online). I'm really digging the "run past then jump and bair" thing you had going on for the entire match, esp. at the first stock. It really worked, almost every time. I dunno about the spin dashing getting predictable, I feel that you could have done a lot worse. But dude, i wanted to thank you, cause i think this match really gave me a few pointers on fighting icees. I think I would have lost that match if it was me playing, i'd be psyched out because I was fighting to avoid their CG the whole time. But I think for the most part, you did really really well with that.

 

[meepxzero]

wow now im getting picked alive lol... I was 2 stocking him every other friendly we played... He felt like recording the only match he won. I immediately started sandbagging cuz of lame gimmicks on yoshis island so it looks like i played like a complete idiot trying to challenge spindash with a grab every time lolol. I mean its friendlies who cares. I know how to fight sonic just pivot grab.

If it makes u guys feel any better ive lost to a captain falcon and ganon in friendlies

al ask tant to put me first round against u whenever i see u in tourney shadowfiend.

 

[Espy Rose]

Updated the thread. Got Shado's game with Meep, Shugo's recent games with Lain, and X's videos from his most recent tournament set up as well.

 

[ShadoFiend]

We played another game other then that? Chu kicked us off the tv and we didnt play the rest of the night meep. What are you talking about?

How I played I would have probably lost the other matches. But we have yet to play a set in tourney. If you do money matches we can play at Oct 17th. I really wanna see where I am in the match up on a stage other than yoshi's. So I'll ban that level myself.

And if you really want to play in tourney then I'll see you in the pro brackets (smirk). since that is where imma be by the end of that night. loll

We'll play Oct 17th and record the whole set. This is more about match expierence then bragging rights. you dont see me talking **** at all in here do you? loll Its a critic board. Dont get your panties in a bunch. (lol <3)

 

[Kinzer]

wow now im getting picked alive lol... I was 2 stocking him every other friendly we played... He felt like recording the only match he won. I immediately started sandbagging cuz of lame gimmicks on yoshis island so it looks like i played like a complete idiot trying to challenge spindash with a grab every time lolol. I mean its friendlies who cares. I know how to fight sonic just pivot grab.

If it makes u guys feel any better ive lost to a captain falcon and ganon in friendlies :laugh

I don't know why you feel you are being cherry-picked. In fact, I'd go as far as to believe we're trying to help you overcome your troubles, because a Sonic on YI:B =/= auto-win, especially not for somebody of your caliber. Anybody who knows better that one friendly match is not going to mean much, if anything.

Breathe man, breathe.

At least if you know how to counter iSDR, you can sandbag and still win, if you so wish to do so.

I also liked the part where you admitted you lost to a Ganon. That had to be awesome.

 

[JayBee]

sorry anything that makes u completely invincible and gives you the option of attacking is kinda broken imo. Imagine mk if he could never get hit outta tornado that would be rediculous. And blizzard does not work against the invincible spindash nor does anything clank it. THe only thing i could do is perfect shield grab it. I guess invinciblity frames are gone once im hit?

I remember thats how speed beat me a round and i was pretty mindfuked the rest of the set assuming the spindash was invincible and he was doing something completely different from every other sonic, but really that glitch is so stage specific.

Dont know what even works against that attack im assuming nothing does.

things do work against it. from my testing so far the onlythings isdr will never work against (aka go through completely) are:
1: Lucario's Aura Sphere (at high percents and fully charged)
2: Samus's Charge Shot (fully charged)
3: bowser's and Charizard's flamethrower moves (the part closest to them hits him out for some reason...

the second thing about isdr that people neglect is... well... its stupid fast. and when to commit to it quickly then you dont really give them time to register that an isdr is coming, then consider the cancels that a spin special normally has. that's when it becomes annoying. because for all intents and purposes you could just jump to the top of the stage and wait there, right? then again he could just chill there charging his spins, then i dunno what you'd do besides hope to hit him in time before he releases it...

The thing i like about this stage is that when people as a whole realize this and sonic's use it better and better, then they will ban this, which will give us back an old friend: Final Destination. your poison. please pick one.

Actually you can just hit the iSDR with any attack that doesn't have transcendent priority (ex. a jab, not a blizzard). It won't hurt Sonic but it will stop the iSDR and you'll be in a neutral position in front of each other on the same frame afaik. and the iSDR isn't invincible once it leaves the ground, which is the only way for Sonic to abort it if he thinks he's gon get (pivot)-grabbed out of it. so no whining from u!!!!

yousure? i thought that an isdr that leaves the edge is even more stupid, since teh 10% rule won't apply lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

And Meep, I'm sorry you can't abuse an easy-to-counter stage gimmick.

lolpwnt

1. Guys leave Meep be lol. I like him :/

2. And if Pictochat ever gets unbanned I wll Def be doing it there aswell. Oh you didnt know? Holllaaa loll. But yea I never play Meep in brackets. Oct 17th i'll get my chance if I get in his bracket or not. We'll see. If not then Speed will have to take over for me. I trust he'll do just as good or better than me in the match up

1. as do I, he just needs to stop being a punk. =P
2. peep the link in my sig and the stage list therein.

The thing i like about this stage is that when people as a whole realize this and sonic's use it better and better, then they will ban this, which will give us back an old friend: Final Destination. your poison. please pick one.

1. I would rather fight sonic on YI than FD any day of the week. an invincible move that only moves in a straight line in one direction on one spot on the stage only, is not that bad. I actually think DKs invincible up b on this stage is way better than what we have.

2. im think im turning into camalange, cus ive been experimenting with battlefield, and i found some pretty cool/goofy movement trixies there.

 

[meepxzero]

wow we clearly played 3-4 games before that... You were losing a lot and decided to move ur cursor to yoshis island.. Cheater.... >_> watever al mm you next time for any amount. Think its stupid to critique a friendly i clearly was sandbagging pretty hard on. Its like playing ic in friendlies on FD of course ur not gonna try cuz ull have that banned all the time.

 

[Boxob.]

Idk what actually happened but all I know is, I think meep can beat sonic.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[da K.I.D.]

moral of this story.

Stupid cruddy gimmicks will mindfk even the best of players and get wins for sonic.

Use every dumb trick and goofy move sonic has to beat people that are better than you.

 

[ShadoFiend]

Meep I'm pretty sure the most we played was 2 matches. You played 3-6 matches with Chaos Knight before me. The first match I believe was on battlefield. First match of the day for me and yea you two stocked me. Then I picked this gimmicky stage or random chose it and yes I abused the gimmick vs you. But like I said. If you want we can record a whole set. I'm not talking cocky or whatever because we all know Sonic vs Icees isn't in Sonic's favor at all. Gimmicks or not. I'll most likely get grabbed somewhere down the line. Or I'll camp out the whole match like I did vs Randall.

And Sandbag =/= Not being able to exploit a "glitch" on one of Sonic's best Stages. I've been playing Neo, HAT, Boss etc. None of them have complained about that glitch at all. Neo hates the Sonic character but not for that sole reason. Boss enjoys fighting Sonics I believe. And HAT, he just wanted to learn the match up so he stopped losing to Sonics which he did recently and beat me and Speed. Remember this is nothing but a critique board. For both players. One match means nothing and no one is gloating about it either. Cool it. We all know in a tourney set the stage would be banned. But since its not why even bother getting tight about it? Its not like im going around la de de dah hey look at my match with meep on this awesome level for Sonic im the best now. Just Cool it.

 

[4nace]

Friendlies = Skill. For certain. =P

But it was an entertaining match and sonics can pick up a few tricks from it. Not a bad match to watch.

Also iSDR is not overpowered at all.

-It beats move with Transcendent Priority
-It clanks with any other attack when the hit box is inside you
-It loses its invincibility as soon as you leave the ground

Combine that with the fact that SDR loses its hitbox when you turn around. You really only get 1-2 hits AT BEST and even then the opponent can just camp that top platform.

 

[Kinzer]

That last bullet is not specific.

I believe Tenki said something about getting iASC if you don't leave the ground or turn-around before you careen offstage. I don't know what person is going to get hit by an iASC anytime soon/consistently enough, but the invincibility is still there is that case.

As I said before, you lose invincibility if you do a SDJ or you turn-around.

Also, when did iSDR lose it's hitbox if you turn-around? I don't think that's the case, you just don't want to go through with the attack because by then it's so easy to counter I don't know how anybody would get hit by then.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm the weirdest Sonic EVER cause out of all the neutrals YI is the only one I would strike.

 

[Chis]

Needs more johns. But I kid.

Shado isn't bragging about beating you or anything so you should just chill.