The Underrated. The Underused. Marth’s Neutral Air.

[**Havok**]

Perhaps it’s not undersued but I have no doubt in my mind that Nair is underrated when it comes to offesive side of Marth’s gameplay. Too many people use it to create a wall to protect marth which is fine but nearly no one approaches with Nair. People seem to rely solely on Fair which has fastest output that anything Marth has and it’s easier to use, completely understandable.


The biggest problem that Nair presents us (approaching with it): It’s very dificult to use consistantly under the pressure of tournament play and rapid change of positioning that goes on in any match/friendly, especially on smaller chars like the mother kids or MK/Kirby, however, that shouldn’t be a reason not to use it since it still kills those characters early with tipper.


How are you supposed to tipper this thing anyways or use it period?


At least with my experience with Marth:


A simple way to approach with this (assuming you know the rough estimate of the range of nair) is simply to short hop and Nair without fast falling, in other words land with nair tippering their shield which should push them far enough so can’t grab you, won’t save you from people power shielding though. This puts an extreme amount of pressure on the shield that will reduce it a considerable amount which means further Marth pressure will be hard to deal with. *cough* Shieldbreaker. *Cough* The reason you use Short Hop-lading Nair without fast falling is because you can position yourself much better to be able to tip… or away.


Why would you want to approach with Nair in the first place?


Pros:

- The shield pressure it provides
- it’s alternative to Fair which in combination with all of Marth’s arsenal you’ll never actually stale anything,
- it kills quicker than fair when it tips at the edges of stages.
- Also, if you happen to bait a grab out of the the tipped nair you can tipper fsmash since the pushback on shield is enough to accomplish this.
- It’s a semi-defensive aerial that’s hard to approach for your opponent.


Cons:

- It’s difficult to use especially over the ease of Fair
- Doesn’t have the same kind of overall pressure that Fair provides.


I believe the hit box is also a bit underneath Marth, near his waist/legs, I'm not too sure though.


Going to make a rough estimate of % at which char dies at the edges of stages with/ without DI when tipped with Nair.


Have other ways to use Nair? Comments? Questions?

Disscuss.

 

[Nightshine]

Other way to use nair is while hanging on ledge. Fast fall, double jump then Nair. Just be sure to retreat while you do it to try and stay out of range from attacks that could come from shielding it.

Do you think this would be a good way to cross up with your opponent then pivot Dancing Blade and/or possibly SB?

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Great thread idea. I love N-air personally, and what you should remember about it that some people overlook is that it's 2 really quick and long lasting hits. That is to say that this move has the longest lingering hitbox of all of Marth's aerials.

It can be auto canceled, and you get more time to FF when you use it. Sometimes if my opponent is recovering low, I'll start a N-air far above him, then FF so the lowest hitbox hits the opponent the moment he comes in range. It's non-tippered knockback is significantly stronger than his F-air, so spacing is almost a non-issue. Nair is an AWESOME move for Marth.

Oh, in case you didn't notice, the hitbox for nair isn't a perfect horizontal line, its been tilted slightly downwards in front of him and upwards behind him. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[mikeHAZE]

nevermind.

 

[legion598]

first hit combos into alot of things and standard A will kill shield grabs on the first hit Nair. I also find it to be more useful offensively because its not as good as Fair for defense

 

[Darxmarth23]

One of my most favorite moves. It got buffed from melee.

I use N-air and D-tilt do force my opponent back. I alternate and then throw in an F-air > First hit of N-air > Dancing blade movestring to finish or get people offstage.

Its what got me third at a tourney. N-air, F-air, and D-tilt are the best.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Nair is good, but a lot of Marth players overuse it. It's amazing off the ledge and it's a great tactic to get back onto the ledge as long as you don't make it obvious, but it can be really hard to tipper. It goes through airdodges pretty well too, and deals significant damage and has great knockback. I'd agree that it's an underused move, though.

 

[∫unk]

wc marths taking over marth boards

 

[Shaya]

Marth's neutral air is statistically his safest and 2nd most powerful horizontall killer.

"Insane", you say?

No, Marth's nair hits 4 times, the 4th hit, which comes out on frame 19 is insanely powerful. And with practice can be aimed to swat a spotdodge, or even hit from the first hit of nair (so it would be a guaranteed combo).

 

[Villi]

Fast falled, the untippered hits are -4 on block along with fair. Since it's not used nearly as often as fair, it's more likely to have this usable frame advantage. FF nair -> up b on baited oos response.

 

[Steel_Samurai]

I love Nair's hitbox
I use it for kind of a recovery trap on Falco and Fox
Grab the edge, forcing them to illusion onto the stage, and ledgehop Nair
It knocks them back offstage, and its not hard to time because of its sexy duration

 

[feardragon64]

Auto-cancel nair has awesome frame advantages if you can nail it. Nice mix-up.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I like to use nair as a kill move and I like to use it for the range on the attack. So against characters like dk d3 boswer and marth I will mix in more nairs then normally.

 

[∫unk]

remember when we questioned your first thread, and i hadnt gone to a tournament yet

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

remember when we questioned your first thread, and i hadnt gone to a tournament yet

No I don't remember this want to fill me in?

 

[∫unk]

ya it was a few days ago

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Doesn't SH nair leave you open for an opponent OoS dashing attack/shield?

 

[ChaosKnight]

no its not that laggy if they do try to attack they will either get hit or you have enough time to do an Fair or it seems like cause i never get punished for a SH Nair

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

ya it was a few days ago

Really? I don't remember....hmmmm.

 

[OmegaXF]

I have to put that the angle of NAir on Brawl is different then than the angle on Melee. ShFFL NAirs on Melee was really OP IMO. Because of the angle of NAir and it's combo potential it was a great approach. On Brawl it feels as though it is angled upwards more than Melee and makes it harder to approach with now. My thoughts is to Delay a ShNAir. To kinda rekindle that old rapeage that is locked away.....

 

[KRiMz0N]

i don't like to juggle, i nair them from below into a fair position

which is dangerous

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, I use Nair more as a punishing/combo tool.

Fun facts: Nair legit combos to itself at lower percents. It's duration lasts long enough for you to SHNairFF and repeat, while your opponent is still in hitstun. Uair -> Nair -> Nair is a 5 hit combo. Of course, I like Uair -> Nair -> Studderstep tippered fsmash better.

First hit Nair combos into most of Marth's moves, but I would recommend dtilt at lower percents, to extend your combo further. Instead of two hit comboing into a smash, you can probably dtilt fsmash, for a three hit combo, still getting that smash attack in.

Nair is an excellent cross-up tool, and can quickly allow you to land behind your opponent. This sets up for a lot of cross-up techniques. I won't get into all of mine here, because this thread is about Nair.

Nair is excellent for punish all dodges. Using Nair as described in the OP will beat spot dodge, SHFFNairing in place destroys players trying to roll behind you. Nair can also take out airdodges pretty easily.

I've been trying to reincorporate Nair into my game, but I don't find myself opening with it that often as an approach. I still prefer Fair, and I prefer Uair to start up combos. Still, Nair's damage and strength isn't to be ignored. Make sure you keep your tech skill sharp if you want to follow up your Nairs and combo with it.

 

[KRiMz0N]

nair is good for eating shields, right? is it good for poking through?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Eh, I use Nair more as a punishing/combo tool.

Fun facts: Nair legit combos to itself at lower percents. It's duration lasts long enough for you to SHNairFF and repeat, while your opponent is still in hitstun. Uair -> Nair -> Nair is a 5 hit combo. Of course, I like Uair -> Nair -> Studderstep tippered fsmash better.

First hit Nair combos into most of Marth's moves, but I would recommend dtilt at lower percents, to extend your combo further. Instead of two hit comboing into a smash, you can probably dtilt fsmash, for a three hit combo, still getting that smash attack in.

Nair is an excellent cross-up tool, and can quickly allow you to land behind your opponent. This sets up for a lot of cross-up techniques. I won't get into all of mine here, because this thread is about Nair.

Nair is excellent for punish all dodges. Using Nair as described in the OP will beat spot dodge, SHFFNairing in place destroys players trying to roll behind you. Nair can also take out airdodges pretty easily.

I've been trying to reincorporate Nair into my game, but I don't find myself opening with it that often as an approach. I still prefer Fair, and I prefer Uair to start up combos. Still, Nair's damage and strength isn't to be ignored. Make sure you keep your tech skill sharp if you want to follow up your Nairs and combo with it.

What's tech skill?

 

[ZHMT]

Crossup Nair....is too good (like Pierce said)

I always find crossing up allows a free dancing blade because most people will never hold their shield after you land in attempt to punish something almost unpunishable. If they dont drop their shield, youll be able to notice it and grab instead.

Ive been hearing mixed opinions on using nair to crossup (it works for me, but I figured I was getting lucky) but I guess its good since you said it is xD.

 

[Pierce7d]

lmao

Uh, I can picture me doing cross-up Nairs, but I can't think of when I do them. I guess I would say that it's when I'm too close for comfort, yet I'm not really in the mood to retreat, beut I could just be making that up. I gotta watch more vids of myself to see when I do cross-up Nair.

What's tech skill? Go to training mode, and land Uair, Nair, Nair on MK. He doesn't DI, it shouldn't be that hard, but make it register as a 5 hit combo consistently (that part should be easy)

Then show us why Marth has blue hair 4 times in a row, or pull it off in tournament. Then ask me what's tech skill.

 

[SmashLumpy]

I never have made a ton fo use of Nair but,this does make the attack look alot more tempting.
Thanks for posting this there are obviously alot of people(like myself)who don't know the potential of some of Marths aerials.

Anyone know a good guide on Marths' frame data,hitboxes,kill percents,etc.

 

[phi1ny3]

This thread's title is so true, this practically won some of my battles vs. my friend's bowser today. very nice shield pressure, good retreating tactic to mix this up with retreating fair, and goes into FF dtilt rather nicely.

 

[Darxmarth23]

This thread's title is so true,

This threads title is spelled wrong. Its Neutral, not Netral.

 

[phi1ny3]

But the "underrated/underused" part is. Plus, it's been corrected.

 

[GPEternity]

Marth's nair is sexy beyond description, i love it so much. I never knew full nairs combo into more, gonna do that now. I like to use nair to shark through the platforms because of it's kill power, also the two swings are great for beating dodges of all sorts. but thats been said already.

to add to its uses: it can be used OoS when your opponent aerials or is tall. in fact it's a great punisher overall because of its kill power, good speed, long hitboxes, and damage when both swings connect.

the first swing will combo into DB. somewhat situational but its good to have when you are just about to land. you can throw out a half-nair before you hit the ground as a defensive or offensive move, depending on whether you are approaching from the air or they are coming at you.

the first swing will not true combo into tilts or smashes, but you can still chain them together. you get a little bit of pop out of it so when they are on the ground and get hit, they are suddenly in the air. this takes away the option of shielding and removes their grounded options, this of course means that even if you can't combo them, you've still got them in a position they may not necessarily want to be in, particularly because characters like snake and falco do not want to be in the air around marth.

 

[Steel]

^

The first hit nair combos into like everything.

 

[GPEternity]

i haven't been able to get the half nair to true combo into tilts or smashes, its hard enough to get it into a DB combo. i don't think it'll combo cleanly into a tilt or smash unless your timing it that you hit them almost the exact frame before you hit the ground.

 

[Steel]

That's the idea >_>

DS is commonly used in this situation, but I think something even as slow as fsmash may combo.

 

[Pierce7d]

I would advise Dsmash. The tipper is actually set up pretty nicely.

 

[Darxmarth23]

N-air is a nice pressuring tool. Along with a series of fast and effective d-tilts and f-airs, n-air easily fits in as a versatile and powerful move.

And it's knock back is too good.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

His Nair is sexy. Period. No explanation since everyone already said it.