The Ultimate Smash Bros. 4 Character Analysis Topic. (Retro Characters Analysis Is Up!)

[Thirdkoopa]

I actually say A LOT about Waddle Dee in my analysis for him. There is also an extensive non-contender section for Kirby. You are right that demand is weak for a Kirby newcomer, however, it is certainly a series worth talking about.

The thing about the Zelda analysis is that I may have to go back and make edits to it due to announcements and new information that happen at E3. That may take a while considering how much is written for the Zelda series analysis.

I may not even post a new series analysis during the week of E3 (though I certainly will post one during the week after). The new information about Smash 4 and new game announcements and information, will give me a lot to consider for future analyses, so I would probably have to hold off for that week.

It's not only that the demand is weak, but really, it's that the series is complete. Every other series right now in Smash (sans: Ice Climber, Third-Parties, ROB, Pikmin, and G&W... And probably Yoshi/Wario) can easily have a newcomer, but frankly, Waddle Dee is generic. Though, I will agree with you he's worth the analysis.

Will you have Daroach in the Non-Contender's section?

Honestly yeah, take a break because some characters might be confirmed and we might get new information (I.E. 3DS having different roster but you can transfer roster) which could really swing the game.

 

[BKupa666]

Good plan on holding off during E3 Week, since I'm almost certain the site will crash for a while after the big announcement.

 

[Kesamijr]

Question, what about Funky Kong for Donkey Kong, I mean he's pretty Popular, and he had a Trophy in Brawl

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Question, what about Funky Kong for Donkey Kong, I mean he's pretty Popular, and he had a Trophy in Brawl

He's mentioned in the post.

Read all of it.

 

[Kesamijr]

I know, but a lot of people I know like him, so I thought maybe he was more of a contender than listed there

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I know, but a lot of people I know like him, so I thought maybe he was more of a contender than listed there

Not really. King K.Rool and Dixie Kong are the only ones with any real sort of shot this time around.

 

[ChronoBound]

I just posted the Metroid series analysis. I hope some of you enjoy reading it. I am very anxious for next week for obvious reasons.

I won't be posting a new series analysis next week. Instead, I will probably post my thoughts on the unveil (though they may be rather brief). However, very high traffic on this site may prevent me from posting anything after Smash 4 is unveiled.

I can't believe that next week we will finally have the first new characters confirmed for Smash Bros. in over 5.5 years.

 

[FalKoopa]

The Metroid analysis! Hurray!

My thoughts:
I'll be honest. I actually expected Chrono to call Ridley a shoo-in for Smash 4, seeing as Ridley is his most wanted character (no offense meant). I really appreciate the unbiased nature of this analysis.

 

[Frostwraith]

The Metroid analysis! Hurray!

My thoughts:
I'll be honest. I actually expected Chrono to call Ridley a shoo-in for Smash 4, seeing as Ridley is his most wanted character (no offense meant). I really appreciate the unbiased nature of this analysis.

Well, Michaeloll at GameFAQs thinks otherwise...

Jokes aside, what Chrono said about Ridley and other Metroid characters is quite accurate: Ridley is the likeliest Metroid newcomer, being a prominent character in the franchise and well-known among Nintendo fans. He fits in the "Nintendo All-Stars" theme Smash Bros. possesses.

However, we should acknowledge that there are no shoo-in characters, unless you count the return of Mario, Link or Kirby, but you get what I mean.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Amazing analysis as always! The Ridley analysis was incredibly fun to read. Nice new avatar by the way.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Nailed it. Ridley has a high chance of getting in, but there's no reason to believe that his inclusion is inevitable. Though he is admittedly one of the characters with the highest chance of getting in.

And I'm with you on the hype for the 11th, I can't quite understand that the Smash train is about to roll again, I'm beyond psyched given that participating with the community pre-Brawl is my biggest gaming experience ever. Of course the majority of the hype is for Ridley's sake, if he's ever confirmed I'll probably breath the most refreshing breath of air I've ever breathed.

 

[DMurr]

Being a huge fan of the Fire Emblem series, I think Lucina is actually really possible for a playable character. Among Fire Emblem characters, she is actually fairly well-liked, and not just for (SPOLIER) being "Marth." Some places even show that she's more popular than Chrom. I know already you said you might Lucina, but I'm just chiming in to say that I think that you definitely should.

I would like to say Lyn is possible also, but she should definitely be under the other characters you list for the series.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Pretty damn on the nose.

The only thing I'd say is Dark Samus's similarity may make her more appealing as it's easier to take Samus's Model and alter it with a spiced up moveset that to get Ridley to work. But with there being more Luigification (love that word) I'd think they'd try an make a whole new character instead. Like out purple space dragon.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I expected nothing less from a Chrono discussion of Ridley. I agree; while Metroid is a relatively large and important series, it's not a highly character-driven one. The only really important characters (that would work in Smash) are Samus and Ridley. Once Ridley is added, Metroid's representation will be perfect. Samus, Ridley, and Zero Suit Samus. 2.5 characters is pretty much perfect for a large series with such a small regular cast.

It's true though that Sakurai seems to have implied that Ridley would be a difficult fighter to implement, and I personally take his comment to mean that he never really seriously considered him for Brawl. I feel that Zero Suit Samus' inclusion was partially a decision to placate Metroid fans and help bolster the series' representation without adding Ridley. It just seems like Sakurai has no interest in including the character, or at least, he had no interest during Brawl's development. Let's hope he thought a bit differently when developing this upcoming game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

he never seriously considered ridley because by the time the suggestions for ridley poured in with the polls, not only was there sonic to complete, but he was probably already implimented as a boss by that point

Kind-of blows considering he was #2. The luck Metroid fans have with Smash. Hey, at least ZSS didn't get her own slot, and I kinda hope ZSS is just pickable straight from the select screen this time.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Didn't occur to me that much before that Ridley's chances of being a hidden character would be low due to how high profile a newcomer he would be, but makes sense. Like most I guess, tis was my favorite analysis to read thus far aside from the K. Rool one.

 

[ChozoBoy]

You're missing Fusion Suit Samus. She's more significant than Higgs and especially the Hunters characters, being the future of the series. This could increase moreso if Sakurai has inside knowledge about an upcoming game that (finally) continues the plot.

I brought her up in the DS thread as an alternative post-Ridley choice. Nearly as agile as her suitless form, with Ice Missiles and a "Wolf-like" neutral special in her Charge Beam's secondary close-up attack. This makes her the type of character who wants to, and can, keep her enemies close. She may not have a Grapple Beam, however.

As a side note, I think the speculation about resizing Ridley is silly. People put way too much stock in things like cherry-picking that little FMV Melee clip. Ridley's size has been consistent in the Metroid series since Super Metroid. He'll just be postured better to fit, like in my avatar, and not have his limbs spread out like in Brawl's boss battles.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You're missing Fusion Suit Samus. She's more significant than Higgs and especially the Hunters characters, being the future of the series. This could increase moreso if Sakurai has inside knowledge about an upcoming game that (finally) continues the plot.

I brought her up in the DS thread as an alternative post-Ridley choice. Nearly as agile as her suitless form, with Ice Missiles and a "Wolf-like" neutral special in her Charge Beam's secondary close-up attack. This makes her the type of character who wants to, and can, keep her enemies close. She may not have a Grapple Beam, however.

As a side note, I think the speculation about resizing Ridley is silly. People put way too much stock in things like cherry-picking that little FMV Melee clip. Ridley's size has been consistent in the Metroid series since Super Metroid. He'll just be postured better to fit, like in my avatar, and not have his limbs spread out like in Brawl's boss battles.

Fusion Samus would at most be a costume. The only reason there's two Links is because they're two different persons, with the whole timeline thing and all, pretty much all Links are different persons. Fusion Samus is still Samus, which would be the first case of a single character taking up two slots. I'd like it as an alternate skin (and even then I'd rather see the flat shoulders Power Suit), but a suit change definitely can't warrant a completely new character, same character, identical moveset, not unique enough.

And Ridley will need a resize regardless, no matter the posture he'll always be too big in his regular size. He'll just be scaled down some, and still be postured to not make him too big, no problem in that.

 

[ChozoBoy]

I don't think you can posit that till you've played it. If Sakurai can get him to work in the size that matters (Brawl, not the ancient little FMV clip that has no bearing on anyone's experience with the character) then he will be in at his actual size, albeit "a little slow."

Spoiler

 

[AnOkayDM]

I don't think you can posit that till you've played it. If Sakurai can get him to work in the size that matters (Brawl, not the ancient little FMV clip that has no bearing on anyone's experience with the character) then he will be in at his actual size, albeit "a little slow."

Difference being a boss can be any size.

That image you showed? Ridley is too big in that image to be viable.

Spoiler

Hurr durr 2big

He would HAVE to be scaled down. Keeping him that size would be bad. Crouching, he's twice Samus's height! And Samus ain't a small lady in Smash. There is no one who is that big.

Bowser's been scaled down. I don't get the problem with scaling down Ridley. His size is far from his defining characteristic (unlike, say, Olimar).

 

[ChozoBoy]

Bowser scales in Mario. Ridley does not scale in Metroid. I'd bet you knew this as you typed it. Regardless, Ridley's size has already been set in the Smash Bros. series by introducing him in the last game at his true scale in relation to Samus. It doesn't matter that Bowser is the biggest character in Brawl because he wasn't in the first game. Captain Falcon was the fastest character in Melee, but that didn't stop Sakurai from adding a faster one.

Reposturing him scales his hitbox without scaling his model and rig. It also makes him look more like his Super Metroid incarnation, or virtually any other Metroid game. Brawl's pose was a weird one that I can only imagine was done to make him a bigger target, being a boss. I really don't see Sakurai adding the goofy Charizard-sized fan hack version of Ridley to Smash 4 if his true scale somehow doesn't work as a character.

That image you showed? Ridley is too big in that image to be viable.

Like I've already said in the last post to Wariofan1, "I don't think you can posit that till you've played it." There's no reason he couldn't function as a combatant. The only reasonable playability concern might be the size of smaller platforms or stages with low ceilings. I don't have any of these models to play with at home right now, so I couldn't say.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Bowser scales in Mario. Ridley does not scale in Metroid.

...and? That's not my point. In all his recent games, he's massive, many times Mario's size. In Brawl he's barely any bigger than Mario. It's been a long time since he was that little in one of the main games.

Regardless, Ridley's size has already been set in the Smash Bros. series by introducing him in the last game at his true scale in relation to Samus.

God knows nothing ever changes from one game to another. Of course we've never seen a boss character become playable, so it's just as likely that he'll scale down than not if you wanna use an in-game argument.

It doesn't matter that Bowser is the biggest character in Brawl because he wasn't in the first game.

He's still smaller than in the majority of the Super Mario games. What's your point?

Captain Falcon was the fastest character in Melee, but that didn't stop Sakurai from adding a faster one.

Sonic's entire identity is speed. Making him not the fastest character would have been nothing short of moronic.

As I said, there's far more to Ridley than his size.

Reposturing him scales his hitbox without scaling his model and rig.

Fine. Show me a decent, viable pose with that size of a model.

I really don't see Sakurai adding the goofy Charizard-sized fan hack version of Ridley to Smash 4 if his true scale somehow doesn't work as a character.

Well no. I imagine he'll be a bit bigger than Bowser, and certainly the biggest character in the game.

But not that big.

Like I've already said in the last post to Wariofan1, "I don't think you can posit that till you've played it."

Sure I can. It's called "theorizing."

There's no reason he couldn't function as a combatant.

Okay, if you say so. I don't think a character twice the size of the rest of the cast would function that well. And he'd likely be slow at that size, which Ridley's not, so it wouldn't feel like playing him.

I think it'd be better to scale him down enough that he doesn't dwarf the rest of the cast. He should still be big, but I just don't think he should be that big. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't really see why it's a big deal to rescale Ridley. Ridley isn't about his size, I've said this tons of times and it seems like I'll need to keep on saying it, he can easily be rescaled because he isn't like Kraid. Kraid is all about being big, Ridley isn't, Ridley is Samus' arch nemesis and has much more to him than size, he could be smaller and their rivalry would be represented the same way, size has nothing to do with Ridley's character.

That's why it doesn't matter if you resize Ridley, and that's also why it doesn't matter if you resize Bowser, they're much more than big monsters.

Ridley with his original size can't fit no matter what position he'd be in, he'd still be way too big, he'd be way too hard to animate, he'd be way too hard to land attacks with, he'd be too hard to jump with, he'd be a house full of glitches, and he'd be a way too big of a target. It wouldn't be able to work, and it doesn't need to be that way, because Ridley's size isn't part of his character or appeal.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I don't really see why it's a big deal to rescale Ridley. Ridley isn't about his size, I've said this tons of times and it seems like I'll need to keep on saying it, he can easily be rescaled because he isn't like Kraid. Kraid is all about being big, Ridley isn't, Ridley is Samus' arch nemesis and has much more to him than size, he could be smaller and their rivalry would be represented the same way, size has nothing to do with Ridley's character.


That's why it doesn't matter if you resize Ridley, and that's also why it doesn't matter if you resize Bowser, they're much more than big monsters.


Ridley with his original size can't fit no matter what position he'd be in, he'd still be way too big, he'd be way too hard to animate, he'd be way too hard to land attacks with, he'd be too hard to jump with, he'd be a house full of glitches, and he'd be a way too big of a target. It wouldn't be able to work, and it doesn't need to be that way, because Ridley's size isn't part of his character or appeal.

This is what I've been trying to say. Thank you.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Then again, how cool would it be to play as giant boss characters like Ridley in a special game mode where you can take control of aforementioned boss characters?
I wonder if it's in the budget to include alternate character models/outfits, because a fusion suit samus would be awesome.

 

[ChozoBoy]

Then again, how cool would it be to play as giant boss characters like Ridley in a special game mode where you can take control of aforementioned boss characters?
I wonder if it's in the budget to include alternate character models/outfits, because a fusion suit samus would be awesome.

That's more likely than Sakurai randomly deciding that Chibi Ridley is a good idea.

 

[ChronoBound]

As I said last week, there is going to be no new series analysis posted for this week. Its E3 folks, and we are going to ton of new official details, and our first newcomer confirmations. Expect the "contender" list to be edited, and some of the analyses already posted to be edited before the end of the week.

 

[M15t3R E]

Then again, how cool would it be to play as giant boss characters like Ridley in a special game mode where you can take control of aforementioned boss characters?
I wonder if it's in the budget to include alternate character models/outfits, because a fusion suit samus would be awesome.

It would make more sense than incorporating RIdley into the regular game as that would be akin to making Master Hand or Tabuu a playable character.
Ridley makes far more sense in Boss Battles, imho.

 

[FalKoopa]

Cue the storm.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm sensing an angry storm coming up very soon...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It would make more sense than incorporating RIdley into the regular game as that would be akin to making Master Hand or Tabuu a playable character.
Ridley makes far more sense in Boss Battles, imho.

Look at the Ridley thread.

It shows you how he can work.

 

[M15t3R E]

Look at the Ridley thread.

It shows you how he can work.

I know, I just inherently disagree with the idea. Resizing a tiny character who already appears life-size in their respective video game (i.e. Olimar) is A LOT more doable than resizing a larger-than-life character like Ridley. Though, I'll take another look at the Ridley thread anyway.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I know, I just inherently disagree with the idea. Resizing a tiny character who already appears life-size in their respective video game (i.e. Olimar) is A LOT more doable than resizing a larger-than-life character like Ridley. Though, I'll take another look at the Ridley thread anyway.

They did it just fine for Bowser, Charizard and Dedede.

 

[M15t3R E]

They did it just fine for Bowser, Charizard and Dedede.

I don't know what you are talking about. Those characters are already not overly massive like Ridley is. Contrary to popular belief, Charizard appears in the pokedex as only 5'7". Bowser looks something like 2-3 feet taller than Mario in most Mario games, and is represented as such in Melee and Brawl. Dedede's height and body shape is also true to the Kirby games.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't know what you are talking about. Those characters are already not overly massive like Ridley is. Contrary to popular belief, Charizard appears in the pokedex as only 5'7". Bowser looks something like around 2 feet taller than Mario in most Mario games, and is represented as such in Melee and Brawl. Dedede's height and body shape is also true to the Kirby games.

Charizard has never looked 5'7". Ever. Look at all of the 3D game models (in comparison to the trainers) and the anime. He's fricking huge. Plus, Pikachu is only about a foot tall, when he's much bigger in smash. Pokedex entries even contradict themselves sometimes. They shouldn't be taken seriously.

What Bowser are you talking about? Sports games? In almost all of the main games, he's huge! At least twice as big as Mario. Sometimes as big as a skyscraper!

Dedede's usually about three times bigger than Kirby. He shrunk in Brawl.

Really this just shows that size is incredibly inconsistant in video games.

Heck! Ridley's size changes three different times during Brawl!

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Charizard has never looked 5'7". Ever. Look at all of the 3D game models (in comparison to the trainers) and the anime. He's fricking huge. Plus, Pikachu is only about a foot tall, when he's much bigger in smash. Pokedex entries even contradict themselves sometimes. They shouldn't be taken seriously.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charizard_(Pokémon)
Charizard is 5 foot 7 inches in the Pokedex, look in my source for proof. comparing Pikachu's and charizard'd height, Pikachu is 1 foot tall in comparison. Yet, this is only Pokemon I'm talking about, Ridley's size can be changed

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charizard_(Pokémon)
Charizard is 5 foot 7 inches in the Pokedex, look in my source for proof. comparing Pikachu's and charizard'd height, Pikachu is 1 foot tall in comparison. Yet, this is only Pokemon I'm talking about, Ridley's size can be changed

I never said that Charizard's official height wasn't 5'7".

I just said he has never looked like it.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I never said that Charizard's official height wasn't 5'7".

I just said he has never looked like it.

That is true...

I mean Look at this Pikachu's the size of Charizard's claw/hand!

 

[M15t3R E]

I never said that Charizard's official height wasn't 5'7".

I just said he has never looked like it.

That is true...

I mean Look at this Pikachu's the size of Charizard's claw/hand!

I quote from bulbapedia- size discrepancies in the pokemon anime: "Charizard are usually 5'7" (1.75m) tall, but Ash's Charizard is taller than that, at about 7'00 (2.10m) tall. Oddly enough, it is shown in Charizard's Burning Ambition that Ash's Charizard is rather small when compared with the Charizard living in Charicific Valley. Also, in Grating Spaces, a Charizard was shown to be as tall as an Aggron, 6'11" (2.10 m)."
As you can see, pokemon have a great deal of wiggle room. So the Charizard argument is invalidated.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I quote from bulbapedia- size discrepancies in the pokemon anime: "Charizard are usually 5'7" (1.75m) tall, but Ash's Charizard is taller than that, at about 7'00 (2.10m) tall. Oddly enough, it is shown in Charizard's Burning Ambition that Ash's Charizard is rather small when compared with the Charizard living in Charicific Valley. Also, in Grating Spaces, a Charizard was shown to be as tall as an Aggron, 6'11" (2.10 m)."
As you can see, pokemon have a great deal of wiggle room. So the Charizard argument is invalidated.

Ridley's size is as inconsistant as Charizard's size. Ridley changes size three different times in Brawl for crying out loud. How is the Charizard argument invalid?