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The Ultimate Smash Bros. 4 Character Analysis Topic. (Retro Characters Analysis Is Up!)

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DakotaBonez

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I guess the argument boils down to DeDeDe and Bowser have shrunk down versions of themselves in their respective series whereas Ridley has always been a Behemoth.But it's still incoherent to say a mini Ridley is totally out of the question or would look odd.
E3 is in 50 minutes... keep me busy smashboards!
 

Banjodorf

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See, the part I don't get is why people feel the need to come to places like this and try to rain on people's parade (That guy in the Ridley thread)

****ing trolls, it's like they think they're being clever. I guess that's the point.
 

Inawordyes

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Okay, so eleven characters confirmed, nine veterans (Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Pikachu, Fox, Kirby, Samus, Bowser, Pit), two newcomers (Villager, Mega Man). Balloon Fighter appears in the trailer (and also in one of the promotional pictures on the SM4SH website, IIRC) as part of Villager's moveset, so chances for him as lower than they may have been before. Toon Link is seen in the background of a stage during the trailer, so chances for him are lower unless it is a hint at the introduction of Alternate Costumes. Everything is being discussed in the other threads, but this is what I've seen so far (as I was just able to get on the site because of the overflood lag). I have not checked the front page to see if you have already updated it, though.
 

ChronoBound

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12 characters confirmed. We got the "Wii Fit Trainer". You guys asked for more females, and well... Sakurai gave it to you. :troll:

I will be making edits tomorrow to my analyses. Of the analyses I already posted, I am going to delete Mario, Bowser, DK, and Samus due to being confirmed. I also plan to edit the analyses of Toad and Dixie Kong to reflect some new game announcements that happened.

Balloon Fighter is also going to be removed as a contender due to Villager basically becoming the Balloon Fighter as part of his recovery.
 

M15t3R E

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Ridley's size is as inconsistant as Charizard's size. Ridley changes size three different times in Brawl for crying out loud. How is the Charizard argument invalid?
LOL!!!!
Depending on the particular Charizard, Charizard's height differs by about a foot, ordinarily. And those are different Charizards so it's understandable. There is ONLY ONE RIDLEY, and Ridley's height wouldn't be lessened by a mere foot or two if he becomes a playable character. He'd have to become what looks like a baby version of his true self from the Metroid series and then he would STILL be a large character.
In short, your comment is so incredibly shortsighted that it's hilarious.
 

ChronoBound

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The fact is that Ridley is among the Top 3 most wanted characters for Smash 4. Fan demand alone will make Sakurai come up with a way to implement Ridley as a playable character. I think after two of today's character confirmations (Villager and WFT), I don't think you can really say something can or cannot work in Smash Bros. or that Sakurai cannot make changes to them. That is simply profoundly arrogant.
 
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@M15t3R E: I hope you realize that Sakurai has never said anything about size being an issue, so why bother even bringing it up in the first place?

And this goes for all Ridley detractors that uses the flawed "too big" argument which has nothing to back it up.
 

N3ON

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Yeah, if anything you should worry about Ridley's speed, because after all, he might be a little slow. Would that be alright? :laugh:

:troll:
 

MasterOfKnees

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In short, your comment is so incredibly shortsighted that it's hilarious.

What's shortsighted is believing you can't scale Ridley down and make it look good at the same time. Of course it can be done, no doubt about it.
 

M15t3R E

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What's shortsighted is believing you can't scale Ridley down and make it look good at the same time. Of course it can be done, no doubt about it.
If you scale Ridley down to this extent as necessary to become a playable character, he won't be the same character anymore. The devs know this and that's why they found him to be more suitable as a boss in Brawl, and I'm nearly positive he will return as a boss.
 

MasterOfKnees

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If you scale Ridley down to this extent as necessary to become a playable character, he won't be the same character anymore. The devs know this and that's why they found him to be more suitable as a boss in Brawl, and I'm nearly positive he will return as a boss.
Can't believe I have to quote myself so many times on the same matter, but here it goes again:

I don't really see why it's a big deal to rescale Ridley. Ridley isn't about his size, I've said this tons of times and it seems like I'll need to keep on saying it, he can easily be rescaled because he isn't like Kraid. Kraid is all about being big, Ridley isn't, Ridley is Samus' arch nemesis and has much more to him than size, he could be smaller and their rivalry would be represented the same way, size has nothing to do with Ridley's character.

That's why it doesn't matter if you resize Ridley, and that's also why it doesn't matter if you resize Bowser, they're much more than big monsters.

Ridley with his original size can't fit no matter what position he'd be in, he'd still be way too big, he'd be way too hard to animate, he'd be way too hard to land attacks with, he'd be too hard to jump with, he'd be a house full of glitches, and he'd be a way too big of a target. It wouldn't be able to work, and it doesn't need to be that way, because Ridley's size isn't part of his character or appeal.
 

Ninka_kiwi

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So I'm curious now, with the inclusions of characters like WFT and Villager, does this mean that some character analysis will change?

Sakurai really Messed with a lot of patterns with Wii fit trainer alone >.<

I'm also curious if you think that the Ridley that will appear will now be Other M design to fit with Samus.
 

FalKoopa

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Sakurai really Messed with a lot of patterns with Wii fit trainer alone >.<
And he also dropped the pattern of basing Zelda characters based on the most recent games. That was probably the most universally recognized pattern.
 

Curious Villager

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And he also dropped the pattern of basing Zelda characters based on the most recent games. That was probably the most universally recognized pattern.

Not just Zelda. Starfox too. Kinda surprised they didn't go back to the Starfox 64 look. Although Link does seem to have the colour pallete of SS Link a little but yeah.

Oh well. It just goes to show. You just can't predict Sakurai. :/
 

Guybrush20X6

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I think Sakurai is doing for Link, what he did with Fox, taking elements for different iteration so make a balanced design.

None of the characters from the existing series so that shouldn't affect analysis too much.
 

M15t3R E

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I don't really see why it's a big deal to rescale Ridley. Ridley isn't about his size, I've said this tons of times and it seems like I'll need to keep on saying it, he can easily be rescaled because he isn't like Kraid. Kraid is all about being big, Ridley isn't, Ridley is Samus' arch nemesis and has much more to him than size, he could be smaller and their rivalry would be represented the same way, size has nothing to do with Ridley's character.

That's why it doesn't matter if you resize Ridley, and that's also why it doesn't matter if you resize Bowser, they're much more than big monsters.

Ridley with his original size can't fit no matter what position he'd be in, he'd still be way too big, he'd be way too hard to animate, he'd be way too hard to land attacks with, he'd be too hard to jump with, he'd be a house full of glitches, and he'd be a way too big of a target. It wouldn't be able to work, and it doesn't need to be that way, because Ridley's size isn't part of his character or appeal.
Sounds like you're speaking for the devs, who I suspect highly disagree with you already as evidenced by the fact that they already found him more suitable as a boss than as a playable character for Brawl. I really do not believe you will be getting your wish in seeing Ridley in SSB4 as a playable character. It would surprise me greatly. It would also surprise me greatly if Ridley doesn't return in some form, however.
 

ChronoBound

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Sounds like you're speaking for the devs, who I suspect highly disagree with you already as evidenced by the fact that they already found him more suitable as a boss than as a playable character for Brawl. I really do not believe you will be getting your wish in seeing Ridley in SSB4 as a playable character. It would surprise me greatly. It would also surprise me greatly if Ridley doesn't return in some form, however.
Just like the devs thought Animal Crossing was too pacifistic to warrant a playable character, guess that means we definitely won't be getting a playable Animal Crossing character in Smash 4. Oh wait.

Newflash, Sakurai probably has changed his mind on a lot of things during the past 5.5 years in regards to characters.

During Brawl, Sakurai specifically ruled out characters from series from which there was not a fighting focus (Animal Crossing, Mii, etc.), yet two out of three of our unveiled newcomers for Smash 4 come from pacifistic series (Villager and Wii Fit Trainer).

Sakurai is even going back and revamping veterans that have been relatively unchanged during the last two Smash Bros. games (see Bowser).

The point is that you have to be arrogant to assume just because Ridley was a boss in Brawl means that he most likely will be a boss in Smash 4, especially considering the very high demand for him and the relatively weak selection for potential newcomers among Nintendo's veteran franchises.
 

M15t3R E

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Just like the devs thought Animal Crossing was too pacifistic to warrant a playable character, guess that means we definitely won't be getting a playable Animal Crossing character in Smash 4. Oh wait.

Newflash, Sakurai probably has changed his mind on a lot of things during the past 5.5 years in regards to characters.

During Brawl, Sakurai specifically ruled out characters from series from which there was not a fighting focus (Animal Crossing, Mii, etc.), yet two out of three of our unveiled newcomers for Smash 4 come from pacifistic series (Villager and Wii Fit Trainer).

Sakurai is even going back and revamping veterans that have been relatively unchanged during the last two Smash Bros. games (see Bowser).

The point is that you have to be arrogant to assume just because Ridley was a boss in Brawl means that he most likely will be a boss in Smash 4, especially considering the very high demand for him and the relatively weak selection for potential newcomers among Nintendo's veteran franchises.
It is a different concern entirely whether to introduce a new character from a non-fighting game and to introduce a character who they originally felt would be better as a boss character such as Ridley. Hence, Villager's and Wii Fit Trainer's debut say nothing about Ridley's chances. I don't know if Sakurai even checks this website. But his team already felt Ridley would work better as a boss because that way his monstrous appearance and devastating moveset would not have to be toned down and would therefore remain truer to the Metroid series. The fact of the matter is, the Metroid series hasn't sold well in Japan since the gamecube Metroid games and Sakurai's team's intention is to reintroduce the series through the SSB series. Ridley need not be a playable character to accomplish this. To do so accurately, they felt the best course of action would be to make Ridley a boss. All things considered, it's just unrealistic to expect that they'll go back on this.
 

ChronoBound

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It is a different concern entirely whether to introduce a new character from a non-fighting game and to introduce a character who they originally felt would be better as a boss character such as Ridley
It shows that Sakurai can change his mind about things.

Hence, Villager's and Wii Fit Trainer's debut say nothing about Ridley's chances. I don't know if Sakurai even checks this website.
Sakurai pretty much does know what characters are highly requested for Smash Bros. one way or another.

But his team already felt Ridley would work better as a boss because that way his monstrous appearance and devastating moveset would not have to be toned down and would therefore remain truer to the Metroid series.
You are pretty much throwing your own opinion and projecting it onto Sakurai.

In regards to most Metroid and Smash Bros. fans, they do not think Ridley's appearance or moveset impedes him from joining Smash Bros. or would make him unfit for the game. Ridley is among the Top 3 most wanted characters for Smash 4 for good reason.

The fact of the matter is, the Metroid series hasn't sold well in Japan since the gamecube Metroid games and Sakurai's team's intention is to reintroduce the series through the SSB series.
You are not making any sense. Mega Man has not sold well in a long time, yet was one of the first two newcomers confirmed for Smash Bros. Little Mac, who looks like he was was leaked, is from a series that sold even worse than the modern Metroid series in Japan.

Ridley need not be a playable character to accomplish this. To do so accurately, they felt the best course of action would be to make Ridley a boss. All things considered, it's just unrealistic to expect that they'll go back on this.
And you think its unlikely because that's your personal opinion and nothing else.

As it stands, most Smash Bros. fans think Sakurai is going to add in Ridley. Really, among veteran franchises there is practically no one left to add in that is notable.
 

ChozoBoy

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In regards to most Metroid and Smash Bros. fans, they do not think Ridley's appearance or moveset impedes him from joining Smash Bros. or would make him unfit for the game. Ridley is among the Top 3 most wanted characters for Smash 4 for good reason.

...

As it stands, most Smash Bros. fans think Sakurai is going to add in Ridley. Really, among veteran franchises there is practically no one left to add in that is notable.
Most Smash fans (by which, I assume you mean the vocal ones on the internet in places such as this) do not agree with Sakurai, nor he with them. This was made all the more clear this week.

I think he will make every effort to test Ridley's potential as a combatant. I don't think Sakurai would approve of resizing him after setting and recognizing his scale for gameplay already, and he may not need to. Even if he wanted to, he might have to get permission from Sakamoto. If he is a character, the model could be a touched-up Ridley clone model from MOM, or it could be a mix of the Brawl model and the Ridley clone, or just an update of the Brawl model. If he is a boss/AT, it will definately be the MOM clone.
 

M15t3R E

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Most Smash fans (by which, I assume you mean the vocal ones on the internet in places such as this) do not agree with Sakurai, nor he with them. This was made all the more clear this week.

I think he will make every effort to test Ridley's potential as a combatant. I don't think Sakurai would approve of resizing him after setting and recognizing his scale for gameplay already, and he may not need to. Even if he wanted to, he might have to get permission from Sakamoto. If he is a character, the model could be a touched-up Ridley clone model from MOM, or it could be a mix of the Brawl model and the Ridley clone, or just an update of the Brawl model. If he is a boss/AT, it will definately be the MOM clone.
This is a good point. Sakurai has to get permission to use characters with the exceptions of Kirby and Kid Icarus since those are his own projects now. If Sakamoto says no to resizing Ridley, which is quite likely, it won't happen. Sakamoto seems happy with the idea of implementing Ridley in the SSB series as a boss, just as Ridley was the main recurring boss in the Metroid series. Then Ridley wouldn't have to be altered either. In every possible way, it makes more sense that Ridley will return as a boss.
Blah blah blah
As if you're not throwing your own opinion into the mix as well. At least I and Chozoboy are using logic. The Ridley hopefuls here have only one argument: "Many of us western fans want Ridley so put Ridley in!" As has already been explained, there are more barriers with throwing in Ridley than Megaman. I do believe Ridley's place in the SSB series has already been cemented.
 

MasterOfKnees

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This is a good point. Sakurai has to get permission to use characters with the exceptions of Kirby and Kid Icarus since those are his own projects now. If Sakamoto says no to resizing Ridley, which is quite likely, it won't happen. Sakamoto seems happy with the idea of implementing Ridley in the SSB series as a boss, just as Ridley was the main recurring boss in the Metroid series. Then Ridley wouldn't have to be altered either. In every possible way, it makes more sense that Ridley will return as a boss.


As if you're not throwing your own opinion into the mix as well. At least I and Chozoboy are using logic. The Ridley hopefuls here have only one argument: "Many of us western fans want Ridley so put Ridley in!" As has already been explained, there are more barriers with throwing in Ridley than Megaman. I do believe Ridley's place in the SSB series has already been cemented.
Your opinions are the things that are dominating your posts, you refuse to listen whenever we tell you that size isn't a problem, we could and have given the most obvious resolutions that are very realistic, but you simply refuse to listen because you don't want to lose the arguement. Ridley has obstacles against him, but size isn't it, it's more so hitbox related and proportions related, which has nothing to do with him being smaller or big. I really don't want to quote myself again with the "Ridley isn't about his size" post. Also, stop pretending you know what Sakurai and even Sakamoto thinks, you don't, I don't, we don't, Wii Fit Trainer re-confirmed that after we all forgot about the R.O.B explosion. All we can do is wait instead of pooping other peoples' parties, and if he's revealed you're just setting yourself up to be a total fool, it'll never do anything but counter attack you.

Anyways, I'm done reading your posts, because you don't want to discuss, you only want to prove other people wrong and ruin actual discussions with none sense arguments that aren't the real problems. If anyone needs to use logic, it's you. Sorry to say it, but you're ignored, and that's not out from the fact that you're against Ridley being a playable character, but it's out from your arrogance.
 

FalKoopa

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Also, people need to stop using Brawl Ridley as a counter-argument. Sakurai did a complete and unexpected U-turn on the villager. Who is to say that he couldn't/won't change his opinion on Ridley?
 
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As if you're not throwing your own opinion into the mix as well. At least I and Chozoboy are using logic. The Ridley hopefuls here have only one argument: "Many of us western fans want Ridley so put Ridley in!" As has already been explained, there are more barriers with throwing in Ridley than Megaman. I do believe Ridley's place in the SSB series has already been cemented.
How can Ridley have more barriers than Mega Man when Mega Man is a third-party characters? Third-party characters are incredibly difficult to fit in the game and Sakurai has even went on the record to say that in some ways, they are harder to fit in the game than making the game itself. There is also a ton of messy licensing issues involved when getting third-party characters, which Sakurai talked about.

Ridley is a first-party character, which already gets rid of the licensing hassles. Even if he proves to be a difficult fit, it will never be harder than a third-party character is. If Sakurai went through all the pain to get Mega Man in, then what make people say Ridley can't fit in as well?
 

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I still think Ridley has a good chance. Dare I say a bit more so, since Sakurai had changed his mind on the Villager. Perhaps he figured out a way to implement Ridley into Smash.
 

M15t3R E

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Your opinions are the things that are dominating your posts, you refuse to listen whenever we tell you that size isn't a problem, we could and have given the most obvious resolutions that are very realistic, but you simply refuse to listen because you don't want to lose the arguement. Ridley has obstacles against him, but size isn't it, it's more so hitbox related and proportions related, which has nothing to do with him being smaller or big. I really don't want to quote myself again with the "Ridley isn't about his size" post. Also, stop pretending you know what Sakurai and even Sakamoto thinks, you don't, I don't, we don't, Wii Fit Trainer re-confirmed that after we all forgot about the R.O.B explosion. All we can do is wait instead of pooping other peoples' parties, and if he's revealed you're just setting yourself up to be a total fool, it'll never do anything but counter attack you.

Anyways, I'm done reading your posts, because you don't want to discuss, you only want to prove other people wrong and ruin actual discussions with none sense arguments that aren't the real problems. If anyone needs to use logic, it's you. Sorry to say it, but you're ignored, and that's not out from the fact that you're against Ridley being a playable character, but it's out from your arrogance.
That's all fine and dandy for you to say but take a look at yourself and those who share your opinion. They are opinions too. My conclusion is not objective, it is subjective, but it is based on objective facts and speculation stemming from objective facts unlike those who believe Ridley will get in. What makes you think size and power and remaining true to the Metroid series aren't important to Sakurai or Sakamoto especially after Brawl? I think you have a lot of nerve. Anyway, there's no point in continuing this. That we can agree on. I'll just wait and come back in a few months or however long to tell you all that I told you so.

Also, people need to stop using Brawl Ridley as a counter-argument. Sakurai did a complete and unexpected U-turn on the villager. Who is to say that he couldn't/won't change his opinion on Ridley?
Villager had no obstacles against his arrival in SSB4. Ridley does.
How can Ridley have more barriers than Mega Man when Mega Man is a third-party characters? Third-party characters are incredibly difficult to fit in the game and Sakurai has even went on the record to say that in some ways, they are harder to fit in the game than making the game itself. There is also a ton of messy licensing issues involved when getting third-party characters, which Sakurai talked about.

Ridley is a first-party character, which already gets rid of the licensing hassles. Even if he proves to be a difficult fit, it will never be harder than a third-party character is. If Sakurai went through all the pain to get Mega Man in, then what make people say Ridley can't fit in as well?
I understand this. Capcom jumped on board with the idea. Will Sakamoto do so with Ridley? Ridley doesn't belong to Sakurai either. That honor only goes to Kirby and Kid Icarus, if memory serves. Also, Megaman and Ridley do not share any other obstacles so it is silly to judge one character's chances off the other.
 

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Villager had no obstacles against his arrival in SSB4. Ridley does.
Yes, he had an obstacle, which was created by Sakurai himself. (All that "innocence would be ruined" stuff.)

A similar case for Ridley. Pre-Brawl, Ridley might have just screamed "boss" to Sakurai, but his perception could very well change now.
 

M15t3R E

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Yes, he had an obstacle, which was created by Sakurai himself. (All that "innocence would be ruined" stuff.)

A similar case for Ridley. Pre-Brawl, Ridley might have just screamed "boss" to Sakurai, but his perception could very well change now.
I am pretty sure everyone here is playing dumb. It is blatant that a massive boss monster with gigantic, overpowered attacks should be more difficult to incorporate as a playable character than someone like Villager. With Villager, all it takes is a little creativity. With Ridley, there are more issues at hand.
 

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I am pretty sure everyone here is playing dumb. It is blatant that a massive boss monster with gigantic, overpowered attacks should be more difficult to incorporate as a playable character than someone like Villager. With Villager, all it takes is a little creativity. With Ridley, there are more issues at hand.
Or you could just tone them down and call it a day. Yes, it would require more effort on Sakurai's part, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
 

BKupa666

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Arguing that it's a priority to remain faithful to the Metroid games and to the power of canon attacks when none other than -Samus- herself is playable? Yeeeeah, you're gonna have a bad time.
 

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I am pretty sure everyone here is playing dumb. It is blatant that a massive boss monster with gigantic, overpowered attacks should be more difficult to incorporate as a playable character than sdomeone like Villager.
Then wouldn't Samus be too powerful for Smash since she can defeat Ridley? :troll:
 

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Being faithful to the characters' canon powers was already an invalid argument in Melee when Pichu had the potential to kick Mewtwo's butt.
 

M15t3R E

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Arguing that it's a priority to remain faithful to the Metroid games and to the power of canon attacks when none other than -Samus- herself is playable? Yeeeeah, you're gonna have a bad time.
Then wouldn't Samus be too powerful for Smash since she can defeat Ridley? :troll:
Hence, her final smash attack.
I'm aware that my analysis of Ridley's chances upset people. Of course it is possible Ridley could become a playable character. It's just like asking Porky's huge spider robot thing to become a playable character. Earthbound is more popular in Japan so it's pretty safe to assume someone has requested that as well. I just think it's easier for such characters to remain as bosses as that is what they've always been and what they are already intentionally designed to be. I won't pretend to know what the developers' tolerance for character alterations are due to fan requests but I am just going on prior evidence that tells me such a character already serves their place and likely won't change.
But who knows.
 

BKupa666

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I am pretty sure everyone here is playing dumb. It is blatant that a massive boss monster with gigantic, overpowered attacks should be more difficult to incorporate as a playable character than someone like Villager. With Villager, all it takes is a little creativity. With Ridley, there are more issues at hand.
Hence, his final smash attack.
 

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@M15t3R E
On the Porky thing, yes, it has been requested and I'm that thread's creator actually. :p
 
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