The Ultimate Smash Bros. 4 Character Analysis Topic. (Retro Characters Analysis Is Up!)

[Opossum]

Mother does not "waste slots." Ness and Lucas have every right to be in.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

And yet the Mother series still doesn't offer much in terms of those series, in both gameplay, relevancy, and legacy, and I do believe Sakurai will look into that. The "Original 12" bull**** excuse is no reason Ness has to hog up spots for other awesome characters. But I digress. Opinions are opinions, and not facts, so its Sakurai's call ultimately.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Double posts.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Mother does not "waste slots." Ness and Lucas have every right to be in.

No they do not. They aren't Mario or Zelda or Pokemon in terms of importance, nor are they Ice Climbers or Game and Watch in terms of old-schoolness. There are FAR better options to look out for, is all I'm saying. Like Prof. Layton, or Rythym Heaven, or Xenoblade. And why hasn't anybody adressed my "full-size roster" issue yet in terms of needing to cut character eventually?

 

[Opossum]

No they do not. They aren't Mario or Zelda or Pokemon in terms of importance, nor are they Ice Climbers or Game and Watch in terms of old-schoolness. There are FAR better options to look out for, is all I'm saying. Like Prof. Layton, or Rythym Heaven, or Xenoblade. And why hasn't anybody adressed my "full-size roster" issue yet in terms of needing to cut character eventually?

Once again, you are wrongly treating your opinion as fact.

And yet the Mother series still doesn't offer much in terms of those series, in both gameplay, relevancy, and legacy, and I do believe Sakurai will look into that. The "Original 12" bull**** excuse is no reason Ness has to hog up spots for other awesome characters. But I digress. Opinions are opinions, and not facts, so its Sakurai's call ultimately.

This is hilarious. The Mother series was pretty much noted for its gameplay. "Relevancy" is a bull**** excuse. And are you seriously saying it doesn't carry a legacy? It's a cult classic series, of course it has a legacy. The VC re-release of Earthbound should tell you that.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Milon's Secret Castle is also available, and that game is pure, unadulterated bull****. And I find this ironic - Mother has a cult status. and they are to be treated like gods from the heavens, and yet so does Geno, but NOOOOO he is suddenly the DEVIL!!! Geno has every right to the game the same way Mother apologists say their precious little series does as well.

 

[Opossum]

Milon's Secret Castle is also available, and that game is pure, unadulterated bull****. And I find this ironic - Mother has a cult status. and they are to be treated like gods from the heavens, and yet so does Geno, but NOOOOO he is suddenly the DEVIL!!! Geno has every right to the game the same way Mother apologists say their precious little series does as well.

You are completely missing the point, and frankly, it's pretty funny. The Mother series isn't going anywhere, nor should it. Geno is not on the level of likelihood (or hell, even on the same level of deserving) as the Mother characters. He's far lower in that regard.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Whatever.

 

[ChronoBound]

How is Geno on the same level as Ness and Lucas? One is a side character in a single game (with much more important characters from his same series yet to get in), while the the latter two (the Mother duo) are the main characters for their respective games, which are acclaimed as being among the best, if not the best, RPGs on their respective platforms. Geno is not even on the same level as Waluigi for crying out loud.

As I said before, Ness is going nowhere. Sakurai at the very least will intend to bring back Lucas, and whether Lucas will be cut will come down to the issue of time constraints and possibly 3DS limitations.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Wait, you say Mother isn't a respectable series on one end, and then turn around completely and say it's respectable???

I never said Geno is a likely candidate for the roster, but rather his cult status should allow him in the game the same way Ness (and Lucas) got in. Like Ness, Geno comes from a well-known SNES RPG, and whenever people think of SMRPG, they think of Geno, just like thinking of Ness when people think of Earthbound 2 - their practically the mascots of their series! So yes, the similarities are there, in a sense, if you look at it in that respect. But with Geno, he brings a whole other variety of a moveset, series, music, and awesomeness (although that doesn't count)... while he's not likely, he would be better off than Ness, because they fill the same roles.

Saying Geno isn't on Waluigi's level is blasphemous

Again, no one is addressing the issue - when the roster reaches its limit, who will end up being cut in favor of new characters?

 

[ChronoBound]

Wait, you say Mother isn't a respectable series on one end, and then turn around completely and say it's respectable???

I never said Geno is a likely candidate for the roster, but rather his cult status should allow him in the game the same way Ness (and Lucas) got in. Like Ness, Geno comes from a well-known SNES RPG, and whenever people think of SMRPG, they think of Geno, just like thinking of Ness when people think of Earthbound 2 - their practically the mascots of their series! So yes, the similarities are there, in a sense, if you look at it in that respect. But with Geno, he brings a whole other variety of a moveset, series, music, and awesomeness (although that doesn't count)... while he's not likely, he would be better off than Ness, because they fill the same roles.

Saying Geno isn't on Waluigi's level is blasphemous

Again, no one is addressing the issue - when the roster reaches its limit, who will end up being cut in favor of new characters?

Geno is not even the mascot of his stand alone game, let alone a series. Mallow is just as important as Geno is in Super Mario RPG. Waluigi having been in countless Mario games is much more well known, popular, and iconic than Geno. I am not a fan of Waluigi, but there is no denying that Waluigi has more significance to the Mario series than a one-shot character like Geno.

Repeat Geno is not even the mascot of Super Mario RPG. He is a side character.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Fine then, I concede the point about Geno being compared to Mother - I was just a little bit emotionally upstruck by all the Geno hate, so I overreacted with a rant on Mother.

 

[Opossum]

Wait, you say Mother isn't a respectable series on one end, and then turn around completely and say it's respectable???

I never said Geno is a likely candidate for the roster, but rather his cult status should allow him in the game the same way Ness (and Lucas) got in.

Geno is a third party character. For them, it'll take more than a cult following (which is definitely a smaller following than that of the Mother series, anyway.

Like Ness, Geno comes from a well-known SNES RPG, and whenever people think of SMRPG, they think of Geno,

Really? I think of Mario.

...just like thinking of Ness when people think of Earthbound 2 - their practically the mascots of their series!

Geno is by no means the mascot of the Mario series. I can't believe I actually needed to type that.

So yes, the similarities are there, in a sense, if you look at it in that respect. But with Geno, he brings a whole other variety of a moveset,

Anything can have a moveset, really. Plus, Ness and Lucas have a moveset too, obviously.

series,

One game doesn't constitute a series.

music,

Mother was also praised for its music.

and awesomeness (although that doesn't count)...

And who's to say Ness and Lucas aren't awesome, as well?

while he's not likely, he would be better off than Ness, because they fill the same roles.

Nope.

Saying Geno isn't on Waluigi's level is blasphemous

As much as I personally don't think Waluigi's likely, I do feel he's leagues above Geno in terms of likelihood. To me, it's essentially Toad=Bowser Jr. > Paper Mario >>Dr. Mario's return > Waluigi >>>>>>>>>Geno.

Again, no one is addressing the issue - when the roster reaches its limit, who will end up being cut in favor of new characters?

Why would you even care if we're not at that point yet?

 

[BKupa666]

Captain N and Captain Falcon are both captains, both have cult status, both have meme status, both are from well-known series, and both are humanoid. Captain N would bring a whole new level of game mastery to the table, so he should replace the F-Zero franchise, since it offers none of that, and is irrelevant. When (not if) the roster reaches its full size, Captain N has every right to be in.

 

[ChronoBound]

Fine then, I concede the point about Geno being compared to Mother - I was just a little bit emotionally upstruck by all the Geno hate, so I overreacted with a rant on Mother.

No one was hating on Geno. What everyone was saying is that he is a one-shot third-party character from a series (Mario) with more important characters yet to be playable, which is the truth.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

When the roster reaches its limit we have tons of characters to cut before we reach Ness and totally axe the Mother series. Toon Link, Lucario, Lucas, Ike, Wolf, R.O.B, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Ice Climbers, Falco, Jigglypuff, Pokémon Trainer and even Sonic.

As you can see, there's plenty of characters we can cut instead of Ness, because believe it or not, he's most likely getting prioritized over all of these.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

The difference, and this is the truth, is that many of those characters are extremely popular (Lucario, Ike, Snake, Sonic) and would piss of a majority of their fanbases with their exclusion. Ness and Lucas would not, because of their small niche popularity (even in comparison to Geno's popularity), but then again, neither would Jigglypuff or Toon Link if they got cut.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The difference, and this is the truth, is that many of those characters are extremely popular (Lucario, Ike, Snake, Sonic) and would piss of a majority of their fanbases with their exclusion. Ness and Lucas would not, because of their small niche popularity (even in comparison to Geno's popularity), but then again, neither would Jigglypuff or Toon Link if they got cut.

If people got pissed off that Roy was cut, what makes you they wouldn't get pissed if Ness or Lucas were cut?

People don't like cuts at all. Especially when a whole series is cut.

What on earth on you thinking?

 

[TheDivineDeity]

LOL on NESS and LUCAS being on Roy's level of popularity. It's a small niche series compared to something like Super Mario RPG, Xenoblade, or even Golden Sun in terms of RPGs. Sure it may piss off a small community, but what's done must be done for the sake of the Smashverse improving its roster with diversity and uniqueness.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Looks like we found our Neo-Noah.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

If people didn't like cuts, they wouldn't be BEGGING for character like Jigglypuff and ROB (who I like) to be cut in the first place. Sakurai said CUTS MAY HAPPEN. So, get used to the potential cuts, even if not Mother.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Looks like we found our Neo-Noah.

Don't even insult me by comparing me with that troll

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The difference, and this is the truth, is that many of those characters are extremely popular (Lucario, Ike, Snake, Sonic) and would piss of a majority of their fanbases with their exclusion. Ness and Lucas would not, because of their small niche popularity (even in comparison to Geno's popularity), but then again, neither would Jigglypuff or Toon Link if they got cut.

It's not only the Mother fans who like and play Ness, the majority of people who flipped their **** over Roy being cut have likely never even played his game, given that it wasn't a very big success. Lucario has also had his time to shine, there are many Pokémon that are much more popular than him right now, and he's not particularly popular in the Smash scene either. Ike would piss people off, including me, but that's the nature of a flavor of the week series like Fire Emblem. Ness also has much more respect among Smash players because he's been in every game, people are used to his inclusion.

And for your own sake, stop using Geno as an example, his support is nearly non-existant these days. He had his moment of shine pre-Brawl, but for some reason he has become forgotten now, so he's no where near as popular as Ness is among us Smash fans. Mind you I'm not a Geno hater of any sort, I'd enjoy his inclusion, but that my friend is the truth, what you're saying isn't.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

So, that's all the Mother brings to the Smashverse, then. Just because Ness was in the "Original 12"? And, I get all your points, I really do All I'm trying to say is if there is an expendable series to be cut, IF IT EVER HAPPENS, it's going to be Mother (or, as I fear, F-Zero may as well).

And fine, I'll stop using Geno as an example - I only did so because people keep pestering me about Geno in the first place.

 

[SonicMario]

Can I just say that even though I've barely played past the first few minutes of an Earthbound game (Which of course was Earthbound itself) that I would actually be pretty sad if Ness were to leave?

I actually felt a hole in my heart when I thought he was replaced by Lucas before Brawl released. The Original 12 does have it's valid spot in the fans of the Smash series, it just doesn't feel the same without any of those 12. I was happy that he wasn't, and he even ended up being my #3 Main behind Sonic and Pikachu..

 

[Starbound]

LOL on NESS and LUCAS being on Roy's level of popularity.

Yeah, they actually would be more popular than Roy if they were cut. :D

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So, that's all the Mother brings to the Smashverse, then. Just because Ness was in the "Original 12"? And, I get all your points, I really do All I'm trying to say is if there is an expendable series to be cut, IF IT EVER HAPPENS, it's going to be Mother (or, as I fear, F-Zero may as well).

Captain Falcon has become an icon for Smash Bros in some ways, and has been one of the most popular characters in all 3 games, the day he is cut is the day over half of the current roster is cut, have no fears about that.

As for the Mother talk, I feel the discussion has gone on for long enough, but try and not look at cuts regarding series, look at it regarding characters, because that's what Sakurai does, that's what we do, and it's pretty much the right way to do it. He doesn't cut series, he cuts characters, there has not been a single franchise cut yet, and I'm not expecting there to be either, and current franchises don't stop new franchises to come in either as we've seen with Animal Crossing, Mega Man and Wii Fit.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

So, we're FOREVER going to be stuck with slot wasters like Ness and Jigglypuff, FOREVER denying two other characters to join the Smashverse, all because they are FOREVER in the ORIGINAL 12?!? The "Original 12" bull**** argument is a dead argument of a dead horse beaten already to a bloody pulp. It's NOT FAIR that because Ness and JIgglypuff only got in the first game due to sheer luck of their time period, they must stay FOREVER. Imagine if it as PICHU that had Jiggles' place - that would be injustice Bottom line, just because YOU may feel bad about Ness being gone, doesn't mean others will - you'll eventually get used to the replacements. It's for what's best for the series as a whole. Think like Sakurai.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Fine, you're right, the discussion has gone far too LOOOOONG..... let's move on

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, we're FOREVER going to be stuck with slot wasters like Ness and Jigglypuff, FOREVER denying two other characters to join the Smashverse, all because they are FOREVER in the ORIGINAL 12?!? The "Original 12" bull**** argument is a dead argument of a dead horse beaten already to a bloody pulp. It's NOT FAIR that because Ness and JIgglypuff only got in the first game due to sheer luck of their time period, they must stay FOREVER. Imagine if it as PICHU that had Jiggles' place - that would be injustice Bottom line, just because YOU may feel bad about Ness being gone, doesn't mean others will - you'll eventually get used to the replacements. It's for what's best for the series as a whole. Think like Sakurai.

If Sakurai thought like that, Mother would not have gotten 2 reps in the first place and Jigglypuff would not have been in brawl.

You don't know what Sakurai thinks like. Don't act like it.

Now let's return the discussion to how awesome Chrono's essays are.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Neither should you.

I know that Chrono is having a recent streak of **** luck lately When he gets back on track, does anyone know which series he's thinking of posting next?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Neither should you.

I know that Chrono is having a recent streak of **** luck lately When he gets back on track, does anyone know which series he's thinking of posting next?

Never claimed I did.

I believe it's Zelda.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Can't wait

 

[ThatPersonGuy]

Milon's Secret Castle is also available, and that game is pure, unadulterated bull****. And I find this ironic - Mother has a cult status. and they are to be treated like gods from the heavens, and yet so does Geno, but NOOOOO he is suddenly the DEVIL!!! Geno has every right to the game the same way Mother apologists say their precious little series does as well.

There's a difference. Geno has a LOT more issues facing him as opposed to the Mother series' appearance. Really, though they aren't that deserving of two reps, they have proved their worth as a series. If the Mother twins weren't as popular as they were, then Fanfiction.net and DeviantART would be a LOT more empty. Like it or not, Smash helped their popularity, and at least one of them is going to stay, and more likely than not Ness has the edge from his recent Wii U VC release.

 

[ThatPersonGuy]

Oh, we're talking about the essays now? Oh.

Amazing, beautiful, describable levels of awesome. Really there's not much else to say on the matter.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

There's a difference. Geno has a LOT more issues facing him as opposed to the Mother series' appearance. Really, though they aren't that deserving of two reps, they have proved their worth as a series. If the Mother twins weren't as popular as they were, then Fanfiction.net and DeviantART would be a LOT more empty. Like it or not, Smash helped their popularity, and at least one of them is going to stay, and more likely than not Ness has the edge from his recent Wii U VC release.

I can't believe it... FANFICTION.NET AND DEVIANTART is used as a reference for popularity...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Can we just cut all the Mother and Geno talk already?

 

[BKupa666]

So, what updates to the current series would be made at this point? Off the top of my head, there's removing Geno, additional discussion of Toad, additional discussion of Dixie and, to a lesser extent, K. Rool, the discussion of a possible upgrade to Yoshi, and the whole 'cinematic appeal' aspect of Ridley remaining important now that each newcomer is receiving a trailer.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Instead of simply removing revealed characters from the analysis. Could you just give your thoughts on them?

I would love to hear them.

 

[ChronoBound]

So, what updates to the current series would be made at this point? Off the top of my head, there's removing Geno, additional discussion of Toad, additional discussion of Dixie and, to a lesser extent, K. Rool, the discussion of a possible upgrade to Yoshi, and the whole 'cinematic appeal' aspect of Ridley remaining important now that each newcomer is receiving a trailer.

Here are the characters that will be removed:

Removed due to confirmations:
Mario
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Link
Samus
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Pit
Olimar
Mega Man

Removed from contender list due to new statements and information:
Geno
Balloon Fighter
Namco Character (instead will be editted to become simply Pac-Man)

Added to contender list:
My Unit
Advance Wars Character
Lip
Barbara the Bat
Dillon
Chibi Robo
Miyamoto's new IP
"X" Protagonist

Already posted analyses that will be edited:
Toad (talk about Super Mario 3D World obviously)
Dixie Kong (talk about Tropical Freeze obviously and how Sakurai revisiting the Villager benefits her)
K. Rool (talk about why his abscence from Tropical Freeze does not hurt his prospects)

Obviously all analyses will be editted to not talk about E3.

Also, I want to talk about each newcomer that was unveiled in depth as well, and how they change the landscape for speculation. All three of them did do some profound things for us.