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The Ultimate Life Form ~ Shadow the Hedgehog for Smash Ultimate! (Maria...)

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,481
So I think with Pyra/Mythra's Inclusion, I think this might be good news for Shadow.

I think with Rex being a Bonus Costume for the FP1, there by being related to the DLC, I think it does hurt the argument for Tails and Knuckles being costumes meaning no new Sonic characters

It's arguable that Joker's Pack might have come before it was fully decided to greenlit FP2. As we see with both ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 getting content around the launch of the game, including Mii Costumes, Spirits, and Music (in Xenoblade's case), Even if all of the Fighters in FP2 were planned around the same time as FP1, that it doesn't mean FP2 would have actually happened

Personally, Taking into account all the comments Sakurai has made, and other miscellaneous things, here is where I see how FP2 was being made

-Sometime after January 11th of 2018, DLC was approved of without the Developers will. There may have already been talks for the characters in the DLC, but after January, those plans were now starting to be envisioned to Reality

-Steve, who was already in talks, was probably delayed in terms of him being Implemented ,and Banjo was used instead since he's Popular and Nintendo were already talking to Microsoft.

-Hero and Sephiroth were probably both planned for the game, and Hero was decided to be in FP1, with Sephiroth coming later

-Steve and Sephiroth likely would have been included even if FP2 wasn't a thing, since perhaps their negotiations surrounding their content were already in production and it did not follow through. Sakurai made the statement that intially he thought "1-2 Extra fighters would suffice" and it might have been these 2

-ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which were games that couldn't be considered for Base roster, had content added in base game, but it does seem like even around Launch, that there were already Ideas of who to represent these games if they did get Fighters

Pyra/Mythra were not Mii costumes, while Rex and Nia were, and Min Min wasn't a costume unlike Spring Man and Ribbon Girl (along with Spring Man being an Assist). Sakurai did say that he was considering Min Min or Ninjara, so I think this might add up

-When FP2 was fully greenlit, it was decided that these 2 games would get Fighters



Now there are 2 Fighters left, and I think these 2 Fighters could be in a situation different from the 4 we already have gotten. I think Shadow could be one of these last 2 Fighters, and I'll explain the reasoning here

-By the time of January 11th 2018 or after, The base game content was already decided upon, which includes the Assists and Spirits. Pretty much the Base game was made without the intention that there would be DLC

-Shadow is a Veteran Assist Trophy, and a very popular one at that. If you notice with the Assists we have in Ultimate, both New and old, Alot of them are very popular characters in some ways. Alot of the Veteran Assist trophies that got cut were not the most popular (not in a bad way, just not as much priorty). This includes Tingle, Magnus, and Saki

-If there was no intention of DLC intially, than I can't imagine Shadow would have his assist removed, when he is not in the same league as characters like Tingle, Magnus, and Saki, but higher than that. If DLC did not happen, than Shadow would get a downgrade in his role, which with his popularity and relevance to his series doesn't make sense

-as an example, if FP1 was all we got, and Sephiroth was not in the game in some form, than it wouldn't be weird since Sephiroth hasn't made an appearance in Smash up until that point, but Shadow has been in the game since Brawl, so if he was taken out completely, only for there to be no Further DLC, it would be weird

-Negotiations for the Sonic Content was probably already done when the Base game was underway, and before DLC was greenlit sometime after January of 2018. Compare this to Minecraft and the Additional FF7 Content. Nintendo might have already started to get access to content from those Franchises to be in the game once the DLC was decided to be a thing, so if they were not implemented at all, then it would have been a Waste on Nintendo's Terms

However with Sonic, all the content negotiated was probably already implemented, So even if there wasn't a FP2, It would not have been a waste on Nintendo's part since the Sonic content is already in the game.

-However, it's very possible that Perhaps it may have been decided and/or plans to add in Shadow if Further DLC was a thing, just like the case with Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, though unlike those cases, Shadow was probably considered but not added to the base roster plan, unlike with Min Min and Pyra/Mythra who couldn't be considered at all for Base roster, so in Shadow's case, it would be a case of Reconsideration, or a True Second Chance

-Microsoft and Square both got 2 Characters because there were talks regarding 2 or more characters. Sega got one with Joker (through Atlus), and it's very possible that's not all that was discussed, which is where Shadow would come in

-Since Sonic Content has been negotiated before in the base game, including Shadow, than it would be much easier to re-negotiate for a Full Fighter

Pretty much, the idea is that Shadow could have been reconsidered as a Fighter when Nintendo decided to have DLC sometime after January of 2018.

I don't think he was as much Priority as Steve and Sephiroth, since Shadow himself, along with the other Sonic characters and content were already in the game in some form, where as Steve and Sephiroth were not in the game and if Negotiations were far enough, it would be a waste on Nintendo's Part

However with a Full FP2 in production, Since the Sonic content has been negotiated before, it would be very easy on Nintendo's end to negotiate for character like Shadow for FP2




Now Why would Shadow have been reconsidered, well here's my opinions as to why

-Shadow's popularity within Smash was at his highest during Ultimate's Lifecycle. Now yes alot of it came with the idea he'd be an echo Fighter, but if Shadow wasn't already popular in the past, he would not have blown up as much as he did. The Echo fighter thing was what made Shadow seem like a Realizable idea, when previously that wasn't the case, and especially after Richter showed up, that's when he started heavily blowing up

-Sonic has been more relevant these days then back then. The last game that came out before the Project Plan finished was Sonic Boom, and we all know what that did to Sonic's Reputation. Sonic Dash came out that year too, but that was it's first year

Now Sonic Mania was a thing, the Mobile games like Sonic Dash and Sonic Forces Speed battle really set in their popularity, and while Sonic Forces was definitely controversial and kind of mediocre, it still did really good for Sega apparently and stuff like that. the Movie was also in production around this time and other games like Team Sonic racing and Mario and Sonic Olympics

-Perhaps DLC was a better avenue for a character like Shadow, since Sonic was already in the game. The Base roster was limited, and the one 3rd party franchise was a new one in Castlevania, which means perhaps new audiences coming to the game and such.

Ken and Richter were echo Fighters, So there wasn't as much time put into them as it would be a character like Sephiroth.

I think it's also apparent in that FP1, all the 3rd party franchises were all new, and it was only with FP2 that we started getting Unique characters from represented 3rd parties. It seems that the New 3rd party franchises were a priorty

-There's also the possibility that Shadow might have been too complicated for the time to implement into the base roster as well, with all the Content that needed to be included and everything. Consider that the Newcomers in Base Ultimate aren't as complex as the DLC Fighters have been in terms of mechanics

Shadow's toolset Would require alot of balancing because it be very easy for him to be overpowered otherwise, and Perhaps the mechanics themselves would need time to be implemented

That might add to the possibility that perhaps Shadow's Assist 2nd phase, which was added to Ultimate, was a way of testing out how a Chaos Control move would work if he was added as Playable. Shadow's Timestop mechanic in his 2nd phase of his Assist trophy is only seen with Shadow's Assist trophy in Ultimate. This particular mechanic has not been seen anywhere else in the franchise, as all other time affecting stuff only Slow down the opponent, not completely stop them in Time.

Pretty much, Shadow got more popular within Smash community in Ultimate's Lifecycle, and Sonic as a franchise has been more relevant than it was when the Project Plan for Ultimate was complemented. DLC also allows more time to be put into Shadow's potential moveset, since I imagine his moveset would have a lot of Complicated variables to implement


that's my speculation, at least for Shadow.
 

millsfan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
62
I agree with your points, and also know his moveset would get more love with solely focusing on DLC. Shadow was always popular since brawl, but ultimate made him even more popular.

Perhaps after fp2, the supposed 3 extra datamined slots could be upgrading the 3 assist trophies people freaked out about more than others.

Shadow, Isaac, and waluigi.

Fp2 focused on adding stuff that wasn’t done for base game.. how about fp3 pleases the fans of assist trophy characters we have wanted to play as since brawl?
 

Heoj

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
535
Yo, i definitely support shadow, or any other sonic character(except amy), Shadow used to be my most wanted in Brawl, as a kid i remember always pausing the screen when shadows assist trophy would show up and id just look at all his poses. Nowadays he prob in my top 10 of most wanted. So if someone could add me to the support list that would be cool.

Also, the next Death Battle is confirmed to be Shadow vs Ryuko so thats cool!
shadowryuko.jpg


If you arent familiar with death battle, heres their youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/screwattack
 
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7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,481
I agree with your points, and also know his moveset would get more love with solely focusing on DLC. Shadow was always popular since brawl, but ultimate made him even more popular.

Perhaps after fp2, the supposed 3 extra datamined slots could be upgrading the 3 assist trophies people freaked out about more than others.

Shadow, Isaac, and waluigi.

Fp2 focused on adding stuff that wasn’t done for base game.. how about fp3 pleases the fans of assist trophy characters we have wanted to play as since brawl?
That would be swell. the only thing is that with the way Sakurai has been wording things, FP3 seems heavily unlikely. Development seems to be winding down and coming to a Close after these Last 2

I do think we will get at least one Assist Trophy promotion, there's been rumors, some implications of one happening, as well as the fact that the Popular Assist characters have alot of merit in their favor anyway

I lean on Shadow or Waluigi more than Isaac though. I still do think Shadow will be in, heavily confident in him.

Also did you guys see the Dark Pit glitch, It's possible it could be for Shadow since like Dark Pit's arrows, Shadow has been able to Aim and Control his Spears even after Firing. they have also had homing capabilities in the past. I don't think the one glitch with the Projectiles missing Head hitboxes apply to him though

Yo, i definitely support shadow, or any other sonic character(except amy), Shadow used to be my most wanted in Brawl, as a kid i remember always pausing the screen when shadows assist trophy would show up and id just look at all his poses. Nowadays he prob in my top 10 of most wanted. So if someone could add me to the support list that would be cool.

Also, the next Death Battle is confirmed to be Shadow vs Ryuko so thats cool!
View attachment 306530

If you arent familiar with death battle, heres their youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/screwattack
I haven't watched Death Battle in a long while, I should go back to it though because I have seen interesting matchups

I really hope Shadow does not take another L. He's already lost Twice, so doing it a third time will just seem so unfortunate. I have watched Kill la Kill and of course Played Sonic and know the lore.

Shadow should body Ryuko, just from the Stats. Shadow also I think has Superior abilities anyway, especially Chaos Control and such, and we see he can do it without an Emerald also
 

millsfan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
62
If we got an assist, I’d love for it to be shadow, but waluigi is more requested. Shadow is second in line (in my opinion). If there’s no fp3 assist upgrades, then I’m not counting on shadow. Fp1 had new third party and one Nintendo rep, fp2 added reps that did not make it to base game. Now we need fp3 to upgrade popular assist chars people flipped out about that were still assist trophies.

While discussing shadow and Isaac, interesting they were revealed last and are different than their previous assist counterparts. They definitely gave them more love...they know they’re popular. Time to upgrade them nintendo. We all saw the bad reactions to waluigi, shadow, and isaacs assist trophies
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,481



So these are both of the Glitches that are gaining traction, And in here I'll explain why I think both Glitches could point to Shadow the Hedgehog

The Dark Pit glitch is about the arrow that he is Shooting. It seems to be about the property of the Arrow since it specifically works with Dark Pit and not other arrow users. It also doesn't work with Pit, who has similar properties to Dark Pit, but not the same, so here's what we could assume

-This Projectile might be able to be Aimed before Firing

-This Projectile can also be Steered even after firing

-The Projectile might be able to Embed in surfaces or opponents

-However, this doesn't have the Freeflow steering property of Pit's arrows that allow 180's, but more constrained steering property similiar to Dark Pit

Chaos Spear is a move that has some of these properties. Not only has Shadow been shown to use different variations of Chaos Spear and different aiming techniques, but Chaos Spears have had homing capabilities in the past as well, where Shadow steers where the projectiles go

It also is more similar to Dark Pit's in Aiming and steering the Projectiles, not like Pit's more freeflow style

It's also been shown to embed in Surfaces in the Past. Sonic Generations and Sonic Boom where games where the Spears can embed itself for a time, just like how the Arrows embed in Dark Pit.

Now for the Projectile glitch. the Glitch happens when Moving forward or Dashing it seems. While previously it seemed to only be Head hitboxes, in the update you can see it also works with any type of hitbox. Does Shadow have some Mechanic and move that allows him to do something like this, Yes (Kind of)

Light Speed Dash Is a move that both Sonic and Shadow can use that allows them to Dash at the speed of Light. Typically this move activates when there are rings close by

However since Smash doesn't have Rings like Sonic games do, in Implementing a move like this, creative liberties might be taken, and this is where this glitch comes in

Perhaps Shadow might instead Light Speed dash whenever Projectiles come towards his way. Now whether this be a Special Move, or some type of Passive ability, I'm not sure, but this could be a way to implement the Light Speed dash that compliments the Smash gameplay.

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Spear

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Speed_Dash

Some of this might be a stretch, but I do think there could be reason both these glitches could point towards mechanics that Shadow might have
 

millsfan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
62
I’d live for him to be playable but if there’s only 2 spots (and I feel Sakurai doesn’t like sonic). I just want an assist char dlc. Shadow would be popular for that pack.
 

ivanlerma

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
1,175
Location
New Mexico
Hello Shadow Fans, did anyone here saw the recent Death Battle with Shadow? This is his third appearance in the series since Season 3.
 

millsfan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
62
No I did not watch. I want to watch him be playable in ultimate
 
Last edited:

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,481
Hello Shadow Fans, did anyone here saw the recent Death Battle with Shadow? This is his third appearance in the series since Season 3.
I watched it

I'm so glad that Shadow finally got a Win on Death Battle. I watched Kill La Kill, so I have an idea of what Ryuko was capable of (though I did forget some details though), but I figured Shadow would be too fast for her, Plus he has more Hax Abilities like Slowing down time and such

Still didn't mean I wasn't scared that somehow she would somehow pull the win, but I'm glad that Shadow did win. It was at the cost of killing his Waifu Unfortunately, and Ryuko herself is a very cool character, so her dying was kind of sad. I also wish they acknowledge his liking of Kill La Kill in the actual animation, but I imagine they couldn't fit that into this scenario of the both of them wanting to kill each other. Glad Shadow got mad at someone saying "Sayonara" to him though

Also, I think Shadow should have a rematch against Mewtwo. Shadow should be able to beat Mewtwo. No chance against Vegeta though, especially now with Super
 
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