The Ultimate Life Form ~ Shadow the Hedgehog for Smash Ultimate! (Maria...)

[pupNapoleon]

Indeed sucks to be a Shadow fan in this day and age, and with one character left things aren't looking very nice
Well, at least there will be Smash 6 and mods in the future, so hopefully we can play as our favorite Hedgehog in the Ultimate Crossover in the distant future.

Oh- he will definitely be in mods. Likely one of the first characters.

 

[7NATOR]

After today, I'm actually feeling really good about Shadow.

-Sega still hasn't had any Mii Costumes at all in FP2. While it is possible that might stay even with CP11, it's something that could be pointing to them

-Indie characters were one of the main things I was paying attention to, Since I saw the lack of Costumes from Indies in FP2. While Shantae being in the Mii pack (seriously I didn't expect here to be in this wave), while it doesn't deconfirm any other Indie character of course, It removes some of the heavy suggestion that CP11 could be Indie

-Sakurai noted that the Mii Costume characters picked were ones that were wanted by people. This may be a stretch to say, but it's possible that this could suggest CP11 might be more of an optimistic character in terms of ending the Pass, as I think having CP11 be a character that might not sit the most with Fans after just mentioning these Mii Costumes were popular characters would not be the best idea

It's a stretch though, and CP11 can go in any direction, but if it did goes in this Optimistic direction, Shadow would definitely fit it (despite how controversial it would also be) since he's been a very popular request since Brawl, and has only garner bigger fanbase over the years, culminating in being one of the top requested for Ultimate

 

[Janx_uwu]

I believe there are already Shadow mods for Ultimate. I'll probably wait until the game rolls out the final patch and locals open back up so I don't have to go online before I mod my Switch though. Wouldn't want the Nintendo Ninjas to brick my Switch or something.

 

[Inferno7]

After today, I'm actually feeling really good about Shadow.

-Sega still hasn't had any Mii Costumes at all in FP2. While it is possible that might stay even with CP11, it's something that could be pointing to them

-Indie characters were one of the main things I was paying attention to, Since I saw the lack of Costumes from Indies in FP2. While Shantae being in the Mii pack (seriously I didn't expect here to be in this wave), while it doesn't deconfirm any other Indie character of course, It removes some of the heavy suggestion that CP11 could be Indie

-Sakurai noted that the Mii Costume characters picked were ones that were wanted by people. This may be a stretch to say, but it's possible that this could suggest CP11 might be more of an optimistic character in terms of ending the Pass, as I think having CP11 be a character that might not sit the most with Fans after just mentioning these Mii Costumes were popular characters would not be the best idea

It's a stretch though, and CP11 can go in any direction, but if it did goes in this Optimistic direction, Shadow would definitely fit it (despite how controversial it would also be) since he's been a very popular request since Brawl, and has only garner bigger fanbase over the years, culminating in being one of the top requested for Ultimate

Yeah, I got a gut feeling with what most of what you said, especially with the ''fan request'' part. Since we don't have any miis left from Sm4sh, it's quite possible that fan requested characters like Doomguy will get featured in the next pack as DLC costumes alongside a heavy request that was absent from base game as our next fighter.
There's no real way to know the last character that's for sure, but when putting things into perpective Shadow really ticks all the boxes with what's left of CP11. The only hurdle seems to be the AT situation. Personally speaking, it would be a dream come true and could revitalize my hype for this game after Dante & Lloyd got deconfirmed.

I believe there are already Shadow mods for Ultimate. I'll probably wait until the game rolls out the final patch and locals open back up so I don't have to go online before I mod my Switch though. Wouldn't want the Nintendo Ninjas to brick my Switch or something.

for now it seems to be just reskins of Sonic, Brawl mods easily blow that out of the water but only time will tell

 

[Janx_uwu]

for now it seems to be just reskins of Sonic, Brawl mods easily blow that out of the water but only time will tell

Oh, I didn't know we weren't talking about reskins. Yeah when actual character mods come out that's when things will start to get epic.

 

[millsfan]

I lost hope for our ultimate hedgehog in this game, if any assist gets upgraded it would be waluigi , that is the truth. I’d say we’re next in line after waluigi.
Although it would be cool to finish ultimate with the ultimate life form

 

[pupNapoleon]

After today, I'm actually feeling really good about Shadow.

-Sega still hasn't had any Mii Costumes at all in FP2. While it is possible that might stay even with CP11, it's something that could be pointing to them

-Indie characters were one of the main things I was paying attention to, Since I saw the lack of Costumes from Indies in FP2. While Shantae being in the Mii pack (seriously I didn't expect here to be in this wave), while it doesn't deconfirm any other Indie character of course, It removes some of the heavy suggestion that CP11 could be Indie

-Sakurai noted that the Mii Costume characters picked were ones that were wanted by people. This may be a stretch to say, but it's possible that this could suggest CP11 might be more of an optimistic character in terms of ending the Pass, as I think having CP11 be a character that might not sit the most with Fans after just mentioning these Mii Costumes were popular characters would not be the best idea

It's a stretch though, and CP11 can go in any direction, but if it did goes in this Optimistic direction, Shadow would definitely fit it (despite how controversial it would also be) since he's been a very popular request since Brawl, and has only garner bigger fanbase over the years, culminating in being one of the top requested for Ultimate

Shadow definitely wasn't requested during Brawl...secondary characters from a third party franchise weren't even seen until the current game.

 

[7NATOR]

Shadow definitely wasn't requested during Brawl...secondary characters from a third party franchise weren't even seen until the current game.

Brawl not as much, but he was still popular in Mods. He was the most Popular Mod for a while on Brawl Vault, before it got deleted for some reason

I will say that Shadow really wasn't popular in the Hardcore crowd until Ultimate. The Casual fanbase on Youtube, Miiverse, Twitter were loving on Shadow, but in the Hardcore he was too controversial, until Ultimate

 

[millsfan]

I’ve wanted shadow since Brawl because once I saw sonic I was thinking “wow I’d love to do shadow vs sonic”… and I just like shadow. So I’ve wanted him since Sonics reveal.

 

[ivanlerma]

To be completely frank, despite moving on to Tails & Eggman as possible Sonic Reps. Back then i wanted Shadow too.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Shadow definitely wasn't requested during Brawl...secondary characters from a third party franchise weren't even seen until the current game.

That doesn't mean they weren't requested. From what I remember, I've seen people on message boards wishing for the likes of Eggman, Shadow, and Tails since before Smash 4 came out. We don't need an established precedent to request a character. Heck, look at the thread you're on right now-it's entirely built on a nonexisting precedent that Assist Trophies can possibly get upgraded in the same game.
But yeah, like 7nator said, Shadow didn't really burst in popularity until echoes got announced.

 

[pupNapoleon]

That doesn't mean they weren't requested. From what I remember, I've seen people on message boards wishing for the likes of Eggman, Shadow, and Tails since before Smash 4 came out. We don't need an established precedent to request a character. Heck, look at the thread you're on right now-it's entirely built on a nonexisting precedent that Assist Trophies can possibly get upgraded in the same game.
But yeah, like 7nator said, Shadow didn't really burst in popularity until echoes got announced.

Then by that standard, Goku has been requested since Melee, Shrek has been requested since 64, and I've been Spiderman since I was five.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Then by that standard, Goku has been requested since Melee, Shrek has been requested since 64, and I've been Spiderman since I was five.

Erm, yeah. I guess if you wanna look at it that way then by all means, go ahead. Technically, wanting a Sony character in Smash, or a character that's never been on Nintendo in general, is virtually the same as wanting Shrek or Goku. One's just never going to happen.
Not sure where you were going with the Spider-Man thing though.

 

[Aboyd]

So I was thinking, if Shadow did get in, what do you think his code name would be? My guesses are Terios, Chaos, or Emerald.

 

[Perkilator]

So I was thinking, if Shadow did get in, what do you think his code name would be? My guesses are Terios, Chaos, or Emerald.

I think Terios would be pretty clever.

 

[millsfan]

So I was thinking, if Shadow did get in, what do you think his code name would be? My guesses are Terios, Chaos, or Emerald.

Maybe ultimate?

 

[ivanlerma]

So I was thinking, if Shadow did get in, what do you think his code name would be? My guesses are Terios, Chaos, or Emerald.

Terios?

 

[7NATOR]

Terios?

It was Shadow's Old name before he was named Shadow, and Terios means reflection, which is what Shadow is of Sonic, a Reflection

 

[ivanlerma]

It was Shadow's Old name before he was named Shadow, and Terios means reflection, which is what Shadow is of Sonic, a Reflection

Oh, I see.

 

[Theguy123]

Hello people. Had this account for ages now but only recently logged back in. Big shadow fan so I decided to watch this thread. How’s everyone doing.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Maybe ultimate?

Yeah probably that (Sephirtoh already took Edge). Ultimate is simplistic enough to apply to multiple characters from different franchises so that the codename isn't a dead giveaway.

 

[millsfan]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1414989974361939969

Crazy the ULTIMATE lifeform did not get put in smash. I wish I could get this figure. Ugh I wish shadow was in fp2

 

[Theguy123]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1414989974361939969

Crazy the ULTIMATE lifeform did not get put in smash. I wish I could get this figure. Ugh I wish shadow was in fp2

Don’t give up yet. There’s a lot going for at least a sega rep and a lot going for shadow as well.

Sephiroths trialed proves sega held FP2 negotiations

Legacy XP’s takedown which was rumoured to be because it was interfering with one of the dlc characters

Sega themselves are the only company from pass 1 to not receive extra content yet

Atlus are counted separate on the smash website and In game to sega so we technically don’t have a sega rep yet

Sakurai didn’t address spring man being an AT in the arms presentation and even included him in the trailers proving AT’s don’t deconfirm

We don’t have an animal’s tournament yet or a rival tournament yet

The official sonic page liked sakurai’s anniversary pic for knuckles but didn’t even acknowledge his anniversary post for shadow

Sonics anniversary event was missing tails and shadow.

And then there’s many more stuff which are mostly to do with patterns that line up for a sega rep and shadow more likely.

Don’t lose hope yet till that last character is shown

 

[millsfan]

Don’t give up yet. There’s a lot going for at least a sega rep and a lot going for shadow as well.

Sephiroths trialed proves sega held FP2 negotiations

Legacy XP’s takedown which was rumoured to be because it was interfering with one of the dlc characters

Sega themselves are the only company from pass 1 to not receive extra content yet

Atlus are counted separate on the smash website and In game to sega so we technically don’t have a sega rep yet

Sakurai didn’t address spring man being an AT in the arms presentation and even included him in the trailers proving AT’s don’t deconfirm

We don’t have an animal’s tournament yet or a rival tournament yet

The official sonic page liked sakurai’s anniversary pic for knuckles but didn’t even acknowledge his anniversary post for shadow

Sonics anniversary event was missing tails and shadow.

And then there’s many more stuff which are mostly to do with patterns that line up for a sega rep and shadow more likely.

Don’t lose hope yet till that last character is shown

All valid points, and I’d honestly freak out because I so don’t expect shadow… especially for the final fighter. I’d probably explode from surprise and excitement.

Yes, this fighter pass has added a lot of stuff missing from base game like xenoblade and final fantasy. Yes we’ve missed more sonic representation. But Sakurai hasn’t cared about sonic at all since brawl, would he really make shadow the final character in a dlc? I doubt it . It feels so incomplete that the ultimate life form is not a character in ultimate.

Ugh how I wish he could be the final dlc. I feel theres so many other characters Sakurai would pick though, and we haven’t seen an assist upgrade now, so I doubt they’d do it. I feel waluigi is the first requested AT whereas shadow and Isaac are second place. Wouldn’t they do waluigi before shadow? Personally I think shadow would be more fun. I’d way prefer him.

 

[Theguy123]

All valid points, and I’d honestly freak out because I so don’t expect shadow… especially for the final fighter. I’d probably explode from surprise and excitement.

Yes, this fighter pass has added a lot of stuff missing from base game like xenoblade and final fantasy. Yes we’ve missed more sonic representation. But Sakurai hasn’t cared about sonic at all since brawl, would he really make shadow the final character in a dlc? I doubt it . It feels so incomplete that the ultimate life form is not a character in ultimate.

Ugh how I wish he could be the final dlc. I feel theres so many other characters Sakurai would pick though, and we haven’t seen an assist upgrade now, so I doubt they’d do it. I feel waluigi is the first requested AT whereas shadow and Isaac are second place. Wouldn’t they do waluigi before shadow? Personally I think shadow would be more fun. I’d way prefer him.

I personally think if we’re ever gonna get an AT upgrade it wouldn’t be waluigi first. I could see him happening for base roster but never being sold as Dlc. It’s hard to imagine waluigi ever being dlc.

 

[Janx_uwu]

I personally think if we’re ever gonna get an AT upgrade it wouldn’t be waluigi first. I could see him happening for base roster but never being sold as Dlc. It’s hard to imagine waluigi ever being dlc.

How come?

 

[Aboyd]

Yes, this fighter pass has added a lot of stuff missing from base game like xenoblade and final fantasy. Yes we’ve missed more sonic representation. But Sakurai hasn’t cared about sonic at all since brawl, would he really make shadow the final character in a dlc?

I feel like the statement that Sakurai didn’t care about Sonic is a bit one-sided and is entirely character focused.
In 3DS/Wii U, we got a new stage for the Wii U version and a bunch of trophies (especially the 3DS version), a Smash Run enemy, 2 DLC Mii costumes, and voice actors added for languages outside of Japanese and English. We also got more music tracks, and uniquely (as starting with Brawl, Smash tends to only add direct ports for games that came after the last game) a port of a track that was from a game already represented by music in Smash.
Sadly we did lose four tracks, which I speculate is because two were owned by the original composer instead of SEGA and the other two due to their singers.

In Ultimate, we got a new assist trophy with a lot more development, Shadow got a bit of an upgrade, and they got back the four missing songs (they lost Right There, Ride On, but based on it also disappearing from Mario Sonic Rio after it’s usual appearance, this may be a problem for Sega)
Edit: I almost forgot Sonic’s classic mode, which is one big love letter to his franchise. Some of his interviews imply Sakurai himself determines each character’s route, or at least plays a big part


Some things I do think I need to note:
Music: This may not be up to Sakurai. Based on how the one remix is still owned by Sega entirely, Sega may want to hold full custody over its music. However, the Final Fantasy VII remixes show that the team is now willing to do that for new remixes.
Spirits: While Sonic doesn’t have as many spirits as Street Fighter, Castlevania, and Mega Man, each has justifiable reasons for having more spirits:

• Street Fighter is a fighting game. Fighting games require more characters than games with stories do, so it has a lot more to choose from.
• Castlevania: Each game has it’s own protagonist, while Sonic is a series with the same Sonic, so while Sonic has more recurring characters, Castlevania has more major characters.
• Mega Man: In addition to above (though replace game with sub-series), Mega Man has FAR more iconic bosses than Sonic because the Robot Masters are far more important to its gameplay.

Additional things I’d like to note:
Sakurai praised all three games and their characters when he noted he anniversaries
There’s a Sonic reference in Kid Icarus Uprising, the Rapid Hedgehog claws that increase your move, charge, and attack speed.
He knows Sonic’s true origins as a mascot in Rad Mobile. Only the biggest Sonic fans know this trivia.

If anyone has read all the way to the end, I thank you. I am not about to say that Sonic is Sakurai’s favorite guess franchise in Smash (in fact I’m almost sure it’s KOF), but I don’t think he dislikes Sonic as much as people think and could just be trying to do the most with what he’s allowed.

 

[Theguy123]

How come?

Lack of actual moveset would mean he shots base roster better than dlc. I can’t see them trying to sell a character who’s source material isn’t faithful to his original appearances in games because he hasn’t got an actual moveset if that makes any sense.

Bass rosfsr is fine because you can get away with it since you ain’t making someone buy him, he’s just apart of the roster. However since this is dlc then every character is gonna be faithful to their original games so I just wouldn’t be able to see them coming up with a new move set for him and then trying to sell it in dlc.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Lack of actual moveset would mean he shots base roster better than dlc. I can’t see them trying to sell a character who’s source material isn’t faithful to his original appearances in games because he hasn’t got an actual moveset if that makes any sense.

Bass rosfsr is fine because you can get away with it since you ain’t making someone buy him, he’s just apart of the roster. However since this is dlc then every character is gonna be faithful to their original games so I just wouldn’t be able to see them coming up with a new move set for him and then trying to sell it in dlc.

In terms of moveset, the great thing about a character with little source material is that you can make them into whatever character you want. For example, you could follow the path of SSF2 and just base Waluigi off of his sporting, party, and golf outings, as well as his love of dancing. Or you could make Waluigi the Deadpool of Smash Bros, thanks to his personality as a dirty cheater, possibly taking a character's portrait and hitting them upside the head with it, or flying on an angel platform as his recovery, or trapping his opponents in an Assist Trophy Capsule as a command grab. There's no rule that every DLC character has to be faithful to their og games-heck, Joker himself reuses a lot of moves from other fighters like Shiek despite all the love Sakurai poured into the character, but it still works because those moves fit Joker. You don't need a character to be just like how they are in the games to accurately represent them. Even if Waluigi had a terrible moveset that horribly represented him-which I doubt-Nintendo would still make a crap ton of money, because A, most people have already bought FP2 and will get Waluigi anyways, if they like it or not, and B, Waluigi is the most highly requested Smash character of all time.

Moveset stuff aside, there is actually a lot to suggest Waluigi would be the final fighter of FP2. The red shell mii hat is still missing, making a Mario character very likely for the final DLC slot. Waluigi was featured heavily in both the marketing of Super Rush and the game's story mode. He's had multiple Nintendo officials including Reggie and Sakurai himself acknowledge the fan demand. There has been quite a bit of Waluigi merchandise lately, same thing happened with Banjo before his reveal. (Yes I'm aware of the new Shadow figure, which looks awesome btw, but that's much differerent from an influx of affordable brand new gear for Waluigi fans, as opposed to one 500 dollar figure.) One of those pieces of merch, an official poster of Waluigi, was curioulsy labeled as "Smash Bros".

 

[Theguy123]

In terms of moveset, the great thing about a character with little source material is that you can make them into whatever character you want. For example, you could follow the path of SSF2 and just base Waluigi off of his sporting, party, and golf outings, as well as his love of dancing. Or you could make Waluigi the Deadpool of Smash Bros, thanks to his personality as a dirty cheater, possibly taking a character's portrait and hitting them upside the head with it, or flying on an angel platform as his recovery, or trapping his opponents in an Assist Trophy Capsule as a command grab. There's no rule that every DLC character has to be faithful to their og games-heck, Joker himself reuses a lot of moves from other fighters like Shiek despite all the love Sakurai poured into the character, but it still works because those moves fit Joker. You don't need a character to be just like how they are in the games to accurately represent them. Even if Waluigi had a terrible moveset that horribly represented him-which I doubt-Nintendo would still make a crap ton of money, because A, most people have already bought FP2 and will get Waluigi anyways, if they like it or not, and B, Waluigi is the most highly requested Smash character of all time.

Moveset stuff aside, there is actually a lot to suggest Waluigi would be the final fighter of FP2. The red shell mii hat is still missing, making a Mario character very likely for the final DLC slot. Waluigi was featured heavily in both the marketing of Super Rush and the game's story mode. He's had multiple Nintendo officials including Reggie and Sakurai himself acknowledge the fan demand. There has been quite a bit of Waluigi merchandise lately, same thing happened with Banjo before his reveal. (Yes I'm aware of the new Shadow figure, which looks awesome btw, but that's much differerent from an influx of affordable brand new gear for Waluigi fans, as opposed to one 500 dollar figure.) One of those pieces of merch, an official poster of Waluigi, was curioulsy labeled as "Smash Bros".

Tbf I agree with 90% of this. I think overall an AT upgrade is very likely. Both have a lot going for them and if waluigi gets in I’d be happy.

Only thing I don’t personally agree on is the red shell hat but everything else I agree on. The red shell hat was probably just replaced with the spiny shell hat and that’s probably why it hasn’t made its return. Also if it does return, it doesn’t necessarily need to be with a Nintendo or Mario rep. Dante broke that rule as his mii costume was a sword user and he came with a brawler character therefore breaking the trend.

 

[Perkilator]

PAIN.

This could've been his Amiibo...

Sigh...next time https://t.co/VGN2QxeHle

— HMK (@HMKilla) July 26, 2021

(Actually now that I think about it, that pose he's doing would actually make a good Ultimate render)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I agree that the concept was wasted in hindsight, but being an echo definitely isn't the end all be all for Shadow, as he can definitely get his own moveset. In fact, every single Smash fangame or mod has given him a rather creative set of tools, why couldn't Ultimate do better?
Now I'm not saying he can't be an echo, but he certainly has what it takes to be unique, just as much as the other popular Sonic candidates do.

I mean, from my perspective- Shadow is best served as a slightly modified echo. In almost every single game he plays nearly identical to Sonic, with perhaps Chaos Spear, and Chaos Control.
Diversifying him to play too differently than Sonic is a disservice to the character.

 

[Perkilator]

pic.twitter.com/4plo6JScb0

— Clarissa (@Clarissa_Arts) August 4, 2021

I hate how well this works.

 

[ivanlerma]

pic.twitter.com/4plo6JScb0

— Clarissa (@Clarissa_Arts) August 4, 2021

I hate how well this works.

Oh, Look

It's Daffy the Shad-Hog

 

[Aboyd]

So, I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I feel like Sega would expect Sonic Colors Ultimate to release around the time of another Sonic character if they were releasing one. Do you think they’d want a Sonic Colors stage to promote the game like SE did with Dragon Quest XI S?

If we got Tails we would probably get Planet Wisp.
Shadow might bring Asteroid Coster since he was there in the DS version.
Eggman could logically have any stage from the game since it’s his theme park, though Terminal Velocity might fit him.

 

[ivanlerma]

So, I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I feel like Sega would expect Sonic Colors Ultimate to release around the time of another Sonic character if they were releasing one. Do you think they’d want a Sonic Colors stage to promote the game like SE did with Dragon Quest XI S?

If we got Tails we would probably get Planet Wisp.
Shadow might bring Asteroid Coster since he was there in the DS version.
Eggman could logically have any stage from the game since it’s his theme park, though Terminal Velocity might fit him.

Could be something worth noting if possible.

 

[7NATOR]

So, I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I feel like Sega would expect Sonic Colors Ultimate to release around the time of another Sonic character if they were releasing one. Do you think they’d want a Sonic Colors stage to promote the game like SE did with Dragon Quest XI S?

If we got Tails we would probably get Planet Wisp.
Shadow might bring Asteroid Coster since he was there in the DS version.
Eggman could logically have any stage from the game since it’s his theme park, though Terminal Velocity might fit him.

I wanted to comment on this earlier, but to be honest, I'm gonna have to say no to this one. Colors Ultimate is just a remaster after all. though since the stages you mentioned had to do with Space, I do think whatever Sonic character we get, the Stage will take place in Space

In any case with the Direct announced officially, This could be the final stretch before we know for real if No Shadow in Smash Ultimate. I haven't been posting lately, because I think I personally already exhausted alot of discussion on Shadow, but there always more room. If we don't get an announcement for a Future announcement (like Final Smash Broadcast) later, than we will get Final Fighter tomorrow, and I think it could be Shadow

 

[Aboyd]

I wanted to comment on this earlier, but to be honest, I'm gonna have to say no to this one. Colors Ultimate is just a remaster after all. though since the stages you mentioned had to do with Space, I do think whatever Sonic character we get, the Stage will take place in Space

In any case with the Direct announced officially, This could be the final stretch before we know for real if No Shadow in Smash Ultimate. I haven't been posting lately, because I think I personally already exhausted alot of discussion on Shadow, but there always more room. If we don't get an announcement for a Future announcement (like Final Smash Broadcast) later, than we will get Final Fighter tomorrow, and I think it could be Shadow

Yeah, good point. One thing to add to the Shadow discussion, what music do you want to arrive with him? How many tracks do you think we'd get?

 

[ivanlerma]

Yeah, good point. One thing to add to the Shadow discussion, what music do you want to arrive with him? How many tracks do you think we'd get?

OH, can i list mine!?

 

[Aboyd]

OH, can i list mine!?

Yes