Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 the truth

[AllyKnight]

I hate brawl and i think this is just a bunch of BS. In the end all they were gonna do is split the money, as m2k said he tried his best to win, and he sucks fighting diddys, his controller broke which lowered his morale. In the end M2K lost fair and square after trying to win a tough match. MLG needs to look more into things before banning them. I think MLG should unban them. And if vVv doesnt want to take both of them back the so be it. But as a console gaming team I think, and this is my opinion, that when m2ks controller broke they should have helped replace it this way he could have tried to break it in as much as possible before the event. As a team though you want to help your players stay in shape.

Anyway i hope this gets worked out so in the end both players can compete. And this is coming from a Melee player, just because I dont like brawl doesnt mean i dont have respect for the players, and ive always liked M2K as a player for both games.

yo I hate melee, what's up?

 

[Kite91]

yo I hate melee, what's up?

Ima guess anything above your head is up

 

[AllyKnight]

ugh! you! I wanted to see if you'd get offended by just what I said, guess you didn't fail. =L

 

[Vyse]

Drop the I hate Brawl/Melee talk. **** is so 2008.

Oh yeah, it's also against the rules, so posts after this that are bashing either get infracted.

 

[Kite91]

Drop the I hate Brawl/Melee talk. **** is so 2008.

Oh yeah, it's also against the rules, so posts after this that are bashing either get infracted.

We didnt say anything it was all in good fun, I may have said i hated brawl but thats not why i came to this thread, you should read what i said first before thinking i was trying to start something

 

[AllyKnight]

Drop the I hate Brawl/Melee talk. **** is so 2008.

Oh yeah, it's also against the rules, so posts after this that are bashing either get infracted.

It was a joke.

I heard Jason made Australia cry, confirm?

 

[TheLastCacely]

hey vyse. go to pound 5. we are having an all diddy side tourney.... hopefully, that would be ****.

 

[Trillion]

Okay, I see what you're trying to say now and I can sorta agree with this.

Why didn't you just come out and say this in the first place instead of making a ridiculously vague post that sounded like you were just ragging on ADHD and accusing him of "conspiring"? "Not reporting something" and "conspiring" are two very different things.

Also, your story keeps changing and I don't like how we had to come this far and it took this much needling from me for you to just come out and say what you actually meant. Because of that, I get the feeling that that this isn't really what you originally meant, and you only came up with this argument along the way after I called you out on your first post.

But whatever, you've clarified yourself, and I don't really take issue with your stance now, so I'm gonna drop it.

Just come out and say exactly what you mean from the start and these things won't happen.

Yeah, sorry about the confusion. It's 2:35 here and I haven't gotten much sleep in the last couple days, plus I got a huge mid term tomorrow, so my thoughts are not flowing from my head to the thread as well as I am trying to get at. Friends?

The general idea is just that M2K and ADHD should stop saying so much about it right now because in they are both saying things that are actually hurting their own defense here.

I DO think however, that by not reporting that M2K was throwing the match, that ADHD was in a sense conspiring. Yes, there was no official agreement, but if he thought that something was wrong, then by not doing anything about it, he was in essence agreeing and thus conspiring.

 

[theunabletable]

M2K broke the rules. ADHD did nothing to stop it. He complied with someone who he believed was breaking the rules. He is guilty too.

How? How did he comply with M2K's breaking of the rules? M2K asked for a split. If ADHD were complying with M2K's breaking of the rules, wouldn't he have split with M2K instead of saying that he'd give him 300 (a split would've been more than 300 lol) AFTER all the matches have been played?

That sounds FAR more like a friendly gift than anything against the rules.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Guys I was just screwing around. If you looked I've already posted in this thread completely supporting M2K and everything.

My brother has known him for years and from what I hear of M2K he's nothing but a cool,nice, funny guy.

And alright Ally but there's been more tournies considered "national" than you think. Just because it doesn't hit the size of Pound/Genesis doesn't mean it isn't a national. I know it's just because we exceed your expectations in how many people turn out but still =P.

 

[tsl]

The general idea is just that M2K and ADHD should stop saying so much about it right now because in they are both saying things that are actually hurting their own defense here.

I actually agree with this. Theoretically, if M2K had not said anything and ADHD never said that he had a good idea that M2K was going to sandbag before the match started, a convincing case could be made to exonerate ADHD of any wrong ... But yeah, not possible now.

I DO think however, that by not reporting that M2K was throwing the match, that ADHD was in a sense conspiring. Yes, there was no official agreement, but if he thought that something was wrong, then by not doing anything about it, he was in essence agreeing and thus conspiring.

Yeah, but that's a total **** move. You're right, but I wouldn't do it. I don't know anyone who would. Would you? I don't think you could so easily DQ a fellow player who you're on friendly terms with. Neither of them knew this whole thing would blow up like it had. If you were in ADHD's position, I think you would have kept quiet as well.

 

[Vyse]

We didnt say anything it was all in good fun, I may have said i hated brawl but thats not why i came to this thread, you should read what i said first before thinking i was trying to start something

I did read it and if other people are dumb like me, they'll mis-interpret and get trolled.
It's just derailing the thread. I am the fun police *Sirens*

(It's also why I'm not like *INFRACT* without discussion, lol)

It was a joke.

I heard Jason made Australia cry, confirm?

He made me so sad that I came down with Glandular fever at the tournament and I had to go to the hospital because my tonsils got so swollen on the first day that I couldn't eat or drink water.

Which sucks because I missed Melee pools

hey vyse. go to pound 5. we are having an all diddy side tourney.... hopefully, that would be ****.

K, be right there

 

[Jem.]

seriously someone call lee martin's phone, hand it to m2k, and tell him that he needs to listen to the voicemail Ray Lau sent him since he's the pro player manager. it could contain whether or not he is allowed to go or not lol. I'm not sure what to think if ADHD didn't get a voicemail from Ray, but Sundance says M2K should check the phone he listed for MLG (if its his moms, call his mom) so that he can find out what it says. i imagine its important. M2K listed two phones and MLG didn't get an answer from either

 

[Trillion]

How? How did he comply with M2K's breaking of the rules? M2K asked for a split. If ADHD were complying with M2K's breaking of the rules, wouldn't he have split with M2K instead of saying that he'd give him 300 (a split would've been more than 300 lol) AFTER all the matches have been played?

That sounds FAR more like a friendly gift than anything against the rules.

The breaking of the rules had nothing to do with the money. It had everything to do with the fact that the bracket was possibly altered in such a way that there was a greater chance of Rich Brown losing.

MLG said that they broke the rules by conspiring to alter the outcome of the bracket. M2K didn't think that he'd be able to win a full set against Rich Brown after having to play ADHD. So, M2K was breaking the rule by trying to make a situation where someone could beat Rich Brown. If it didn't matter to him whether or not Rich Brown won, then he had no reason to care who it was that was going up against Rich Brown in the grand finals or who had the better shot at beating Rich Brown.

ADHD says that he believed M2K was sandbagging. If he believed that he was, then he knew that M2K was trying to alter the bracket, but he went along with it anyway making him a party to the rule breaking and guilty as well.

 

[AllyKnight]

Iron Dragon sorry lol not trying to get beef, I just hate flamers. =)

 

[Trillion]

Yeah, but that's a total **** move. You're right, but I wouldn't do it. I don't know anyone who would. Would you? I don't think you could so easily DQ a fellow player who you're on friendly terms with. Neither of them knew this whole thing would blow up like it had. If you were in ADHD's position, I think you would have kept quiet as well.

I'm not sure what I would have done in the same situation to be perfectly honest. I would like to think that between games I would have pulled M2K aside and said "look dude, I want to win, but i don't want to win because you aren't giving it your best."

 

[theunabletable]

ADHD says that he believed M2K was sandbagging. If he believed that he was, then he knew that M2K was trying to alter the bracket, but he went along with it anyway making him a party to the rule breaking and guilty as well.

So where's this rule that ADHD broke that states that you must report it when you think someone else is sandbagging?

I mean, say I go to MLG, and beat some really good player like ESAM or something, and I think he may have been sandbagging. Am I supposed to report to someone that I think he wasn't trying or else I get disqualified from future events?

That would never happen. EVER. No one would betray their community like that and get someone chucked out of the venue or banned from future events. And if that's a reason for a DQ, then I should be able to go **** up anyone good I have to play in bracket by sandbagging and getting us both DQ'd, right?

(and I responded to DMG's post that was a different argument which was in response to this same argument I just made. So I haven't missed either you nor DMG's points... just putting that out there )

And how does ADHD not reporting it even effect the bracket at all? If M2K sandbags and gives ADHD a win (regardless of what ADHD wants), then it's ADHD vs RichBrown grand finals. If M2K sandbags and ADHD reports him for it and M2K gets disqualified, then it's ADHD vs RichBrown grand finals.

Him reporting it or not didn't change the outcome of the tournament AT ALL.

 

[Kite91]

I think if me and my friend were gonna split prize money we would still do our best in the matches, its only fair. And besides prize money you are fighting for number one

 

[DMG]

Post/QUOTE]

ADHD considered giving him prize money before they actually played out the set, indicated by an answer of anything but a clear no. It would be like conspiring against your Wife: you don't have to completely follow through with your plans or agreements for there to be a problem. If you are proposed with something, and do not clearly reject it at that time, you can't turn around and believeably say "I didn't want this to happen".

M2K asking this before they even played is the real problem. If they played the set with no real mentioning of splitting or sharing money, and immediately after the set M2K asked the question, there wouldn't be a problem. But, because he asked before they even played and Wyatt didn't straight up say no to him, you have to question the validity of the results and whether their stated intentions were truthful.

 

[Trillion]

So where's this rule that ADHD broke that states that you must report it when you think someone else is sandbagging?

I mean, say I go to MLG, and beat some really good player like ESAM or something, and I think he may have been sandbagging. Am I supposed to report to someone that I think he wasn't trying or else I get disqualified from future events?

And how does ADHD not reporting it even effect the bracket at all? If M2K sandbags and gives ADHD a win (regardless of what ADHD wants), then it's ADHD vs RichBrown grand finals. If M2K sandbags and ADHD reports him for it and M2K gets disqualified, then it's ADHD vs RichBrown grand finals.

Him reporting it or not didn't change the outcome of the tournament AT ALL.

IMO, ADHD should have spoken to M2K about it between matches and told him to stop sandbagging.

If I give you some money that I stole from the bank, are you supposed to keep it? No, you are supposed to report it. You don't go along with something that someone else is doing wrong.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Iron Dragon sorry lol not trying to get beef, I just hate flamers. =)

i dont flame i just have preference, plus i chuckled at hax's post so i kinda felt obligated to do that, sorry >_>.

i actually do like brawl but like said preference

*ahem* anyways im getting too off topic here. I hope everything works out for you though M2K. I about lost it at that you wanted to retire after Dallas and go to college. It would be sad to see such a player who's made such an impact on both communities leave. But to me what's even sadder is not giving that player that one last chance to play, that last want to win, that money he wants for college. 8th place alone gets $2,000 and hasn't that alone been the average payout for 1st at MLG events in the circuit?

M2K would have to be playing beyond horrible to get 8th but even to get top 3 would be great. Maybe what he did was wrong, I personally don't see it, but MLG has their own rules in their own wacky ways of what they want to do and what they say is unfortunately final. What gets to me most in all of this is that it had to happen NOW. It had to be when it was the event that he was preparing for, wanting most. I know I'm ranting at this point and just re-hashing what I said up there, but I hope some of you get my point and that some of you see that M2K is truly sorry. He is from all I can tell, a nice person who made an honest mistake and just wants forgiveness for it. People forgot too much that pro smashers are just like you and me, they make mistakes. They aren't perfect just because you look up to them no matter how much you want them to be.

That's all I have to say really *shrug*

 

[Kite91]

Wish there was something that we could do so mlg allows them to play. Maybe a petition idk .

BRAWLERS HEAR ME....GO ON STRIKE...lol idk

 

[theunabletable]

IMO, ADHD should have spoken to M2K about it between matches and told him to stop sandbagging.

If I give you some money that I stole from the bank, are you supposed to keep it? No, you are supposed to report it. You don't go along with something that someone else is doing wrong.

You can't expect someone to betray their community over something like this.

Would you ever report a friend for sandbagging and get them DQ'd (and cause them to lose their prize money) if there was a chance that you were wrong and they were just playing badly?

Here's a more specific example than the one you gave: "I mean, say I go to MLG, and beat some really good player like ESAM or something, and I think he may have been sandbagging. Am I supposed to report to someone that I think he wasn't trying or else I get disqualified from future events?"

Would what I'm saying there be the correct thing to do? If not, then how does my example not relate? And if it does relate fine, then how is ADHD in the wrong?

Your scenario is incorrect as it's against the law to do that.

Where in MLG's rules does it state that you HAVE to report someone for sandbagging?

Show me a rule that ADHD HIMSELF broke. Whether it be a rule that indicates that you must report sandbaggers, or a rule that, given the story in the OP, ADHD broke.

M2K breaking a rule, and ADHD not reporting doesn't make ADHD guilty of ANYTHING unless there's a rule in MLG's ruleset stating that you must report people for breaking rules.

ADHD considered giving him prize money before they actually played out the set, indicated by an answer of anything but a clear no. It would be like conspiring against your Wife: you don't have to completely follow through with your plans or agreements for there to be a problem. If you are proposed with something, and do not clearly reject it at that time, you can't turn around and believeably say "I didn't want this to happen".

Wait... saying that we'll "talk about it later" is considering it before they actually play the set? Isn't that like the ONLY thing you could say and argue that you DIDN'T consider it?

Saying no right afterwards is basically an admission of consideration. To say "no" you very likely considered it. To say "I don't want to consider this/talk about this now, let's do it later" (or any variation of that statement) is like the ONLY thing you could say and be able to argue that you weren't considering it until after the set.

And it's not like he didn't follow through with his plans. He never HAD plans before the set. I don't see how you could have LESS plans before a set than to put off even talking about such plans until later.

M2K asking this before they even played is the real problem. If they played the set with no real mentioning of splitting or sharing money, and immediately after the set M2K asked the question, there wouldn't be a problem. But, because he asked before they even played and Wyatt didn't straight up say no to him, you have to question the validity of the results and whether their stated intentions were truthful.

How so? Him putting off talking about any creation of plans until AFTER the set kinda proves that he didn't want to change the results, right?

I mean, how can you attempt to think about splitting any less than "let's not talk about it now"? If he wanted to play his set BEFORE even considering any kind of money gifts, then how could you EVER blame him for screwing up the bracket?

You can't indicate a lack of consideration any less than putting off actually considering it >_>

 

[Trillion]

Wish there was something that we could do so mlg allows them to play. Maybe a petition idk .

BRAWLERS HEAR ME....GO ON STRIKE...lol idk

careful, that sounds very close to saying boycott and Pierce made up some rule where he gets to hand out infractions for saying to boycott mlg. rofl.

 

[Trillion]

You can't expect someone to betray their community over something like this.

Would you ever report a friend for sandbagging and get them DQ'd (and cause them to lose their prize money) if there was a chance that you were wrong and they were just playing badly?

As I just said, rather than get him DQ'd, he should have taken him aside between matches and told him to stop trying to throw it.

 

[Kite91]

careful, that sounds very close to saying boycott and Pierce made up some rule where he gets to hand out infractions for saying to boycott mlg. rofl.

lol o **** thanx for the warning XD

 

[theunabletable]

@magnificentmarth: How is not doing so a bannable offense? I made an edit to my last post, but I don't think you caught it in time so I'll post it here:

Where in MLG's rules does it state that you HAVE to report someone for sandbagging?

Show me a rule that ADHD HIMSELF broke. Whether it be a rule that indicates that you must report sandbaggers, or a rule that, given the story in the OP, ADHD broke.

M2K breaking a rule, and ADHD not reporting doesn't make ADHD guilty of ANYTHING unless there's a rule in MLG's ruleset stating that you must report people for breaking rules.

I could come up with a million subjective reasons for why ADHD and M2K being banned is ridiculous, but any of those subjective morality opinions don't really apply in a situation like this. We're dealing with facts, not opinion.

 

[Tagxy]

seriously someone call lee martin's phone, hand it to m2k, and tell him that he needs to listen to the voicemail Ray Lau sent him since he's the pro player manager. it could contain whether or not he is allowed to go or not lol. I'm not sure what to think if ADHD didn't get a voicemail from Ray, but Sundance says M2K should check the phone he listed for MLG (if its his moms, call his mom) so that he can find out what it says. i imagine its important. M2K listed two phones and MLG didn't get an answer from either

Make a blog on aib.

 

[•Col•]

Post/QUOTE]

ADHD considered giving him prize money before they actually played out the set, indicated by an answer of anything but a clear no. It would be like conspiring against your Wife: you don't have to completely follow through with your plans or agreements for there to be a problem. If you are proposed with something, and do not clearly reject it at that time, you can't turn around and believeably say "I didn't want this to happen".

M2K asking this before they even played is the real problem. If they played the set with no real mentioning of splitting or sharing money, and immediately after the set M2K asked the question, there wouldn't be a problem. But, because he asked before they even played and Wyatt didn't straight up say no to him, you have to question the validity of the results and whether their stated intentions were truthful.

Pretty sure he didn't give an outright "No" because saying that is kind of a ****-ish response to a friend. "We'll talk later" has always meant "Uh..... I don't really want to do that, but maybe later we can talk about it and I can still help you out."

So then later when they had more time to talk ADHD could be all like "Hey, sorry I didn't want to split with you, but here's some money anyway. We're still friends, right?"

Honestly, I didn't take that "we'll talk later" as him considering splitting, but maybe that's just me. :/ But what would you say if your friend just asked you to split and you didn't want to?

 

[Soran]

Drop the I hate Brawl/Melee talk. **** is so 2008.

what's wrong with 2008 o.O?

Great album by She. I love that one.

But anyway, I'm still surprised this topic is getting so much hits.
it is so late too. guys, quit arguing. I'm pretty sure your minds won't sway MLG ruleset.

=.= *tired of BS*

... *tired in general*

A plague to both your houses!

but guys, let's not do anything to potentially harm another. I'd hate to see somebody is gone because we are being butts. let's stop the attrocities before they are summoned!

I summon, EXODIA! the forbidden one? Exodius... or w/e his name is. Taht dude that is omega cheap. who else is tired?

and lol @ ADHD for wanting to keep his prize money then stating he doesn't play for money.
no, begging for the prize money; then stating he doesn't play for money.

Ally is maining Snake or MK now? why do I have the feeling Snake's tier placement is dropping rapidly?

 

[Trillion]

@magnificentmarth: How is not doing so a bannable offense? I made an edit to my last post, but I don't think you caught it in time so I'll post it here:

If someone does something against the rules you are obligated to report it. If I murder someone and tell you about it, then you are legally obligated to report it or else the law says that you are a party to it via conspiracy after the fact.

This is a similar situation. The rules exist to reinforce ethical game play. ADHD violated the rule by being a party to M2K's breaking of the rule. Game ethics should have dictated to him that he should have attempted to do something about it. Yes, it would really a **** move for him to try to get M2K DQ'd, but he should have told M2K not to do it because that would have meant that he was DOING THE RIGHT THING. I capitalize it because I feel that it must be stressed.

 

[Soran]

well said ^

ADHD sorta followed through with the plan.

my faith in these players is dimming like a small flame within a sealed jar.
What is the point in winning if it was a cheated to?

now I'm just talking silly out of my droopiness.

 

[theunabletable]

If someone does something against the rules you are obligated to report it. If I murder someone and tell you about it, then you are legally obligated to report it or else the law says that you are a party to it via conspiracy after the fact.

MLG rules =/= the law

This is a similar situation.

Similar, but not similar enough. If I break the law, I get arrested. If I break MLG rules, I get punished by whatever means MLG has to punish me. A law dictating that you need to report someone for breaking the law does not apply to needing to report someone for breaking MLG rules, unless it's part of MLG's ruleset.

You get what I'm saying? Breaking the law is unrelated to breaking MLG rules. MLG's law does not state that you have to report someone for breaking their law. Thus it's not an offense to not report someone.

The rules exist to reinforce ethical game play.

Too bad there's no rule in MLG's ruleset stating that it's a bannable offense to not report it when someone breaks the rules.

The law may state that you have to report someone for breaking the LAW. But the law does not state that you must report someone for breaking MLG rules. And MLG rules don't either. Combined with the fact that MLG rules are not the law.

Your example in this scenario is invalid, as a law that refers to the breaking of laws is unrelated to breaking something that's not the law.

ADHD violated the rule by being a party to M2K's breaking of the rule. Game ethics should have dictated to him that he should have attempted to do something about it. Yes, it would really a **** move for him to try to get M2K DQ'd, but he should have told M2K not to do it because that would have meant that he was DOING THE RIGHT THING. I capitalize it because I feel that it must be stressed.

If most people flipped out because someone heard M2K asking to split with ADHD, then wouldn't asking M2K to not sandbag be as good as reporting him? It's a ****ing **** move, either way.

 

[Trillion]

MLG rules =/= the law

Similar, but not similar enough. If I break the law, I get arrested. If I break MLG rules, I get punished by whatever means MLG has to punish me. A law dictating that you need to report someone for breaking the law does not apply to needing to report someone for breaking MLG rules, unless it's part of MLG's ruleset.

An analogy is just that, an analogy. The kind of punishment you receive in either case does not weaken the analogy because the form of punishment has nothing to do with whether or not the act was in violation the rules. I am saying that not reporting someone for breaking the rules or at the very least, not trying to stop them from breaking the rules meant that he WAS violating said rule.

You get what I'm saying? Breaking the law is unrelated to breaking MLG rules. MLG's law does not state that you have to report someone for breaking their law. Thus it's not an offense to not report someone.

Too bad there's no rule in MLG's ruleset stating that it's a bannable offense to not report it when someone breaks the rules.

The law may state that you have to report someone for breaking the LAW. But the law does not state that you must report someone for breaking MLG rules. And MLG rules don't either. Combined with the fact that MLG rules are not the law.

Your example in this scenario is invalid, as a law that refers to the breaking of laws is unrelated to breaking something that's not the law.

If most people flipped out because someone heard M2K asking to split with ADHD, then wouldn't asking M2K to not sandbag be as good as reporting him? It's a ****ing **** move, either way.

The point of an analogy is that it is supposed to refer to similar instance, not to one that is 100% the exact same. I'm saying that a similar ideology is present here. Breaking the law is related to breaking MLG rules because in both cases you are violating a constraint that you are under. MLG rule says, and i quote from the MLG page, "The Official MLG Rules clearly state that no players may engage in “intentional Forfeiting or conspiring to manipulate Rankings or Brackets,” with one of the possible penalties for such a violation being a competition ban."

The question here is whether or not ADHD is party to a conspiracy. If you do NOT report that someone is violating the rules to influence the bracket, than you are part of the conspiracy and are thus breaking the rules, so yes, there is a rule against not reporting a violation of this nature.

My example does apply to this scenario (which is what I think you meant to say rather than to say that it is invalid because validity is a property that applies to deductive arguments while analogies are inductive arguments which are thus never valid or invalid but rather are strong or weak).

 

[theunabletable]

The question here is whether or not ADHD is party to a conspiracy. This requires us to understand what constitutes a "conspiracy" as defined by the MLG. If you do NOT report that someone is violating the rules to influence the bracket, than you are part of the conspiracy and are thus breaking the rules, so yes, there is a rule against not reporting a violation of this nature.

Source? Like an actual link?

'cause either that's innaccurate, or I'm seeing the rules from an incorrect page :/

 

[Mew2King]

there's a difference with sandbagging and being a stupid emo idiot that mentally gave up before the set :/ (me)

I'm going to call sundance tomorrow, there might be a small glimmer of hope. I REALLY hope I can do it because MLG is literally my life.

 

[DMG]

The man himself speaks again

THIS THREAD SHALL NOT SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY HENCEFORTH

You got this M2K

 

[Mew2King]

I was out all day with Atomsk/Tyrant/MikeHaze/Lee Martin. just got back and it got several more pages of posts

 

[Trillion]

Source? Like an actual link?

'cause either that's innaccurate, or I'm seeing the rules from an incorrect page :/

That is how I am interpreting their definition of it. They don't have it spelled out entirely, which is why i edited that out, but was apparently too slow (Sonic is shamed).


http://www.mlgpro.com/content/alert...las-Event-Following-Conduct-Violations-in-D-C

This is the MLG report on the reason for banning them. It can also be found as rule 10 on the 2010 Pro Circuit Conduct Rules which apply to all MLG events.

 

[Zekeishere]

I'm going to call sundance tomorrow, there might be a small glimmer of hope. I REALLY hope I can do it because MLG is literally my life.

Wait what? Really?