Just requested a bunch of things for sticky, seems like it'll get answered, I have my hopes. I actually requested this as the match up thread that gets stickied mostly because it looks better...>.>. That and it seems like adumbrodeus isn't around much. I was thinking Kalm, could you get summaries and scores from the other threads? We definitely shouldn't let those go to waste and have to re do them.
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"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.
- Thread starter Ray_Kalm
- Start date
Blad01
Smash Lord
WTF ? This thread doesn't need to be stickied, we already have a match-up thread.
> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191143.
Ray_Kalm, i hate you.
But if this thread keeps being stickied, then you should add the links to the match-ups that we already discussed.
> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191143.
Ray_Kalm, i hate you.
But if this thread keeps being stickied, then you should add the links to the match-ups that we already discussed.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Don't hate on ray, it's all good.
It's my fault, I've had way too much to do in the last couple of weeks. Ironically, I was planning on updating today because I just got out of my last midterm for a while.
Anyway, I'd prefer what we've done so far doesn't get lost, so if you don't mind, include a link to the central thread that has all the old match-ups.
I'll get around to writing summeries pretty soon.
It's my fault, I've had way too much to do in the last couple of weeks. Ironically, I was planning on updating today because I just got out of my last midterm for a while.
Anyway, I'd prefer what we've done so far doesn't get lost, so if you don't mind, include a link to the central thread that has all the old match-ups.
I'll get around to writing summeries pretty soon.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Yeah, I'll do that, it'll be much faster to complete the full match up like that anyways.
I couldn't care less. Quit whining over a sticked thread.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Well, on topic, what are you guys thinking of this match up's ratio? I'm thinking around 65:35.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Ok, so everything' s fine.
Well, that was not completely serious ôO I couldn't hate someone that i don't really know lol ;p
Gleam
Smash Ace
I will not deny a good link, just as I will not deny any good players, be it Captain Falcon, Bowser, Snake, Meta Knight etc.
But Link's projectiles are about the least threatening thing in the game. Arrows are slow, have to be charged if you want to cover the distance too. Gale Boomerang means crap up close and bombs can be caught. Links projectiles may stall Ganondorf, but they will certainly not completely stop him.
But Link's projectiles are about the least threatening thing in the game. Arrows are slow, have to be charged if you want to cover the distance too. Gale Boomerang means crap up close and bombs can be caught. Links projectiles may stall Ganondorf, but they will certainly not completely stop him.
Teaddiction
Smash Cadet
To tell you the true, I haven´t playes with a bowser that can beat Ganondorf, like Flayl said, the Ganondorf smash are stronger than Bowser. Since Bowser is a easy target for every attack in brawl, Ganondorf can easy and without too much problem do lots of damage to Bowser, before he hits Ganondorf, the Gerudo has many options to land in Bowser big body...and donth forget the meteor or spike...Ganondorf can do it lots of times before Bowser knows whats going on..IMO Should be 50-50.
Gleam
Smash Ace
I might be pulling legs here, but I think Link might actually give us the advantage. It's like peole have said, we wreck Link up close with our stomps and Gerudos. Link has a far...far worst recovery. If ours is terrible, Link's God right awful. Accompany that with Ganondorf's good edgeguarding and the moment you put Link off the edge, he's dead.
Take Link's lag in question too, because Link isn't exactly a light whispy guy either. Most of his attacks do have lag, making it much eaiser to punish him. Which again, makes it easier to send him off the edge, and easier to KO him.
If Link, can somehow keep Ganondorf away with is projectiles, which right now has been proven to be of little affect, even with all three. Well then Link stands a good chance, but once Ganondorfs gets in range...whole new game.
60/40 at tops for Ganondorf IMO
Take Link's lag in question too, because Link isn't exactly a light whispy guy either. Most of his attacks do have lag, making it much eaiser to punish him. Which again, makes it easier to send him off the edge, and easier to KO him.
If Link, can somehow keep Ganondorf away with is projectiles, which right now has been proven to be of little affect, even with all three. Well then Link stands a good chance, but once Ganondorfs gets in range...whole new game.
60/40 at tops for Ganondorf IMO
I'm pretty sure Link's horizontal recovery is a little better than Ganondorf's, but I'd say Ganon's is better based on the fact that his two recovery moves can mess with edgeguarders/hoggers (Ganoncide, being shocked or punched into the stage, etc). I'm not saying this necessarily makes up for Ganon's bad recovery, but at least it gives people something to think about when they approach a recovering Ganon. Link's is just asking for a thunder stomp.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Kalm, I played Legan the other day and it was really fun (he's a nice Link) and there was one move that kept happening that I wasn't sure if it was guaranteed or if my DI sucked on WiFi. He would get me in a poke or neutral A lock while I was on the ground and he could keep me there for a while. I think towards the end I was DIing correctly away from it, but it's hard to say. Can you hook me up?
:034:
Smash Hero
Jab lock? It's similiar to Falco's laser lock, you stay in a certain animation where they can continously hit you until the end of the stage. Link's range makes his fairly useful... Not sure if DI works against it.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I don't think vs Link isn't that bad. I'd say close to even (55/45 Link). I've beaten Ray_Kalm's Link online with Ganon, so I honestly don't think the matchup is terrible. And Ray_Kalm is like waaaay better than me. =P
He does make you approach, but generally, most of his attacks can be punished on block unless he spaces them perfectly.
Flame Choke gets a Jab on him, which is nice. Link should always DI towards Ganon because of this from Flame Choke.
Ganon's F-tilt raaaaaapes Link at high percents unless if he does a tether save.
From what I've seen from Link, he has a lot of powerful attacks, but he has trouble scoring KOs easily, much like Ganon. A lot of Link's attacks that can kill are also useful for punishing on stage. Link packs a little less power than Ganon, but what he does have that Ganon doesn't have is projectile spam and a fast grab attack, so he can eventually work around stale moves if given time.
Ganon is both better at recovering and chasing his opponent off stage, so naturally he wins in edgeguarding. Link only has two good tactics for edgeguarding, and that's D-air at high percents, or Z-air edgehog, and neither are necessarily guaranteed to work.
Oh yeah, did I mention Ganon's recovery is better than Link's? Yeah, it's a LOT better than Link's, and Ganon's recovery is TERRIBLE. Link when he's edgeguarding, like seriously he can't go more than two feet from the stage without risking not being able to make it back. His Up-B is horrifyingly bad for recovery. The only thing Link beats Ganon at here is surviving horizontal knockback in rare circumstances due to Z-air saves, but that's it.
I dunno, basically, I think the matchup comes down to Ganon's better combos and edgeguarding over Link's stage control. *shrug*
He does make you approach, but generally, most of his attacks can be punished on block unless he spaces them perfectly.
Flame Choke gets a Jab on him, which is nice. Link should always DI towards Ganon because of this from Flame Choke.
Ganon's F-tilt raaaaaapes Link at high percents unless if he does a tether save.
From what I've seen from Link, he has a lot of powerful attacks, but he has trouble scoring KOs easily, much like Ganon. A lot of Link's attacks that can kill are also useful for punishing on stage. Link packs a little less power than Ganon, but what he does have that Ganon doesn't have is projectile spam and a fast grab attack, so he can eventually work around stale moves if given time.
Ganon is both better at recovering and chasing his opponent off stage, so naturally he wins in edgeguarding. Link only has two good tactics for edgeguarding, and that's D-air at high percents, or Z-air edgehog, and neither are necessarily guaranteed to work.
Oh yeah, did I mention Ganon's recovery is better than Link's? Yeah, it's a LOT better than Link's, and Ganon's recovery is TERRIBLE. Link when he's edgeguarding, like seriously he can't go more than two feet from the stage without risking not being able to make it back. His Up-B is horrifyingly bad for recovery. The only thing Link beats Ganon at here is surviving horizontal knockback in rare circumstances due to Z-air saves, but that's it.
I dunno, basically, I think the matchup comes down to Ganon's better combos and edgeguarding over Link's stage control. *shrug*
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I'll point out the standard I used in the DDD match-up again, since it's one of the better sets of questions I've seen to determine overall match-up advantage or disadvantage.
I'll answer these questions in a bit but certain things need to be double-checked.
1. Who has to approach?
V
2a. If ganondorf, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2b. If the opponent, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2c. If neither, do either of them have safe approaches in this match-up?
V
3. Does the approaching character(s) have approaches that are safe on prediction and/or multiple safe on block approaches that require a DIFFERENT reaction on prediction? Are any of these approaches kill moves?
4. Who has a better follow-up game?
5. Who has aerial superiority?
6. Who has a better gimp game?
7. Who gets the opponent to percents that they can reliably kill quicker overall?
8. Who has better spacing and zoning tools?
9. Can the character that doesn't have to approach safely approach?
I'll answer these questions in a bit but certain things need to be double-checked.
1. Who has to approach?
V
2a. If ganondorf, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2b. If the opponent, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2c. If neither, do either of them have safe approaches in this match-up?
V
3. Does the approaching character(s) have approaches that are safe on prediction and/or multiple safe on block approaches that require a DIFFERENT reaction on prediction? Are any of these approaches kill moves?
4. Who has a better follow-up game?
5. Who has aerial superiority?
6. Who has a better gimp game?
7. Who gets the opponent to percents that they can reliably kill quicker overall?
8. Who has better spacing and zoning tools?
9. Can the character that doesn't have to approach safely approach?
Assume that he spaces perfectly, unless you have something that restricts that spacing.
More then 7 frames, assume he does.
Jekyll
Smash Ace
Smash DI helps get out of Jab Locks....
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Not really..
Jab locks, are infinite on a character until they fall of the stage, or if it gets interrupted.. Impossible to get out of.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Okay, I gave it a 60:40, seems pretty fair to me.
In the Air: Link doesn't have much options in the air, while Ganon has plenty making it very easy to spike or gimp him.
On the stage, while further away from eachother: Link could control the stage with his projectiles, giving Ganon no breaks causing him to approach almost every second.
On the Stage, mid range: Here's where Ganon has a bit of advantage, D-Tilting and Forward smash spaces perfectly here. Link is still able to hit Ganon though, faster then Ganon could hit Link but with less KO power, his options would be; D-Smash, F-Smash, Gale Boomerang, Z-Air ( which could be quite a pain).
On the Stage, close range: Ganon could barely land a hit, grab and jab would be his only options which, is still punishable. Link could U-Smash, D-Smash, Jab/Jab Cancel, Grab..etc.
Let's get on with our next match up:
I kinda like how adumbrodeus has his questions set up, so I'll use them:
1. Who has to approach?
V
2a. If Ganondorf, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2b. If the opponent, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2c. If neither, do either of them have safe approaches in this match-up?
V
3. Does the approaching character(s) have approaches that are safe on prediction and/or multiple safe on block approaches that require a DIFFERENT reaction on prediction? Are any of these approaches kill moves?
4. Who has a better follow-up game?
5. Who has aerial superiority?
6. Who has a better gimp game?
7. Who gets the opponent to percents that they can reliably kill quicker overall?
8. Who has better spacing and zoning tools?
9. Can the character that doesn't have to approach safely approach?
In the Air: Link doesn't have much options in the air, while Ganon has plenty making it very easy to spike or gimp him.
On the stage, while further away from eachother: Link could control the stage with his projectiles, giving Ganon no breaks causing him to approach almost every second.
On the Stage, mid range: Here's where Ganon has a bit of advantage, D-Tilting and Forward smash spaces perfectly here. Link is still able to hit Ganon though, faster then Ganon could hit Link but with less KO power, his options would be; D-Smash, F-Smash, Gale Boomerang, Z-Air ( which could be quite a pain).
On the Stage, close range: Ganon could barely land a hit, grab and jab would be his only options which, is still punishable. Link could U-Smash, D-Smash, Jab/Jab Cancel, Grab..etc.
Let's get on with our next match up:
I kinda like how adumbrodeus has his questions set up, so I'll use them:
1. Who has to approach?
V
2a. If Ganondorf, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2b. If the opponent, does he have safe approaches in this match-up?
OR
2c. If neither, do either of them have safe approaches in this match-up?
V
3. Does the approaching character(s) have approaches that are safe on prediction and/or multiple safe on block approaches that require a DIFFERENT reaction on prediction? Are any of these approaches kill moves?
4. Who has a better follow-up game?
5. Who has aerial superiority?
6. Who has a better gimp game?
7. Who gets the opponent to percents that they can reliably kill quicker overall?
8. Who has better spacing and zoning tools?
9. Can the character that doesn't have to approach safely approach?
Jekyll
Smash Ace
Not really...
Any attack that has hitstun(read "any attack PERIOD") can be smash DI'd. That includes a jab.
I know this example is from Melee, but if you look at one of SuperDoodleMan's old vids, there's a clip of Luigi smash DI'ing Falco's laser from off the side of the screen all the way back to the stage.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
I'd like to see this vid. Link?
Gleam
Smash Ace
Mario Match
The only reason Ganondorf would have to approach is due to Mario's fireballs, which are one of the easiest projectiles to get around. This means that it is relatively easy for Ganondorf to get up to Mario, which is where IMO, beats Mario.
Ganondorf has better reach, KO, (A better UP B recover, yes this is true) and better priority. He's got a D-tilt on Flame Choke guaranteed too. In the air. The same thing goes for aerials. More lag obviously, or in this case, less auto cancels I should say. But still, more reach, KO power, priority etc.
But...Mario has a much better edgeguarding game. Cape and FLUUD is murder. Cape stops everything, Flame chokes, Dark Dive, Uairs, everything. As a suggestion, if you get knocked off the stage, think your next move. Basically, you do not want to get off the edge.
If Ganondorf can stay on the ground, or in most cases, on the stage vicinity at most, I would give it between 55-45 to 60-40 Ganondorf advantage. I feel he has enough going for him at this point to warrant at least a small advantage. However, off stage with that cape and FLUUD, 55-45 60-40 advantage to Mario.
The only reason Ganondorf would have to approach is due to Mario's fireballs, which are one of the easiest projectiles to get around. This means that it is relatively easy for Ganondorf to get up to Mario, which is where IMO, beats Mario.
Ganondorf has better reach, KO, (A better UP B recover, yes this is true) and better priority. He's got a D-tilt on Flame Choke guaranteed too. In the air. The same thing goes for aerials. More lag obviously, or in this case, less auto cancels I should say. But still, more reach, KO power, priority etc.
But...Mario has a much better edgeguarding game. Cape and FLUUD is murder. Cape stops everything, Flame chokes, Dark Dive, Uairs, everything. As a suggestion, if you get knocked off the stage, think your next move. Basically, you do not want to get off the edge.
If Ganondorf can stay on the ground, or in most cases, on the stage vicinity at most, I would give it between 55-45 to 60-40 Ganondorf advantage. I feel he has enough going for him at this point to warrant at least a small advantage. However, off stage with that cape and FLUUD, 55-45 60-40 advantage to Mario.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Just a side note: Mario can Utilt combo Ganon at low percentages.
FLUDD can also be used to stop/hinder Ganon's approach.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but does FLUDD induce FIHL on Ganon's Stomp, DA or Wizkick?
FLUDD can also be used to stop/hinder Ganon's approach.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but does FLUDD induce FIHL on Ganon's Stomp, DA or Wizkick?
Gleam
Smash Ace
Can you explain a little more on the Utilt Combo. I assume you mean a constant barrage of Utilt. But, after a bit of testing Ganondorf can actually Perfect Shield the next Utilt.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I've played this matchup on both ends, and I'll say it's fairly close.
Mario has the advantage though, mainly because of his combos and his pretty easy time edgeguarding Ganondorf. Not to mention he has a spammable projectile. It's not the best one out there, but it's enough to be annoying.
As for combos, Mario's U-tilt will combo Ganon until like 35% or so, and he can still follow up with U-airs and other aerials. Mario also has D-throw -> U-airs -> Regrab if you don't jump away after the U-air. Against a good Mario, you can expect to take about 60% pretty early in the match if they get in your range. So basically, you don't want to get grabbed at low percents. What I've found works for Mario in this matchup is if he reads an approach, he can pivot grab through almost everything Ganon does. Just my observation playing as Mario. Of course, the typical shieldgrab works fine too. Mario can do two aerials in a SH keep in mind, so watch out for that.
Mario has N-air, Cape, and FLUDD on Ganondorf's recovery. N-air hits at a horizontal angle and has a long lasting hitbox, so it can interfere with recoveries from below effectively. Cape ***** your recovery moves if it hits you, and it also makes Mario REALLY GOOD at ledgestalling to hog the ledge. FLUDD stops Ganon's momentum, either destroying one of your recovery moves, or making you easy bait for a Cape.
Mario's Fireball means it's not always easy to get Flame Choke combos on him. If you're close enough though, if you read a Fireball, you can go for a Dash attack and plow right through it.
That's pretty much the bad part of the matchup. You have more range and KO power than he does, and that also gives Mario some significant problems.
Mario is also a character who suffers from RCO lag keep in mind (although I think he can do an aerial to reduce the landing lag he incurs). Mario is also able to punish a lot of things with his Up-B out of shield, so watch out for that too.
It's 6/4 in favor of Mario, but Ganon has better tools on the ground and can outspace Mario in the air, so it's not really that bad of a matchup.
Mario has the advantage though, mainly because of his combos and his pretty easy time edgeguarding Ganondorf. Not to mention he has a spammable projectile. It's not the best one out there, but it's enough to be annoying.
As for combos, Mario's U-tilt will combo Ganon until like 35% or so, and he can still follow up with U-airs and other aerials. Mario also has D-throw -> U-airs -> Regrab if you don't jump away after the U-air. Against a good Mario, you can expect to take about 60% pretty early in the match if they get in your range. So basically, you don't want to get grabbed at low percents. What I've found works for Mario in this matchup is if he reads an approach, he can pivot grab through almost everything Ganon does. Just my observation playing as Mario. Of course, the typical shieldgrab works fine too. Mario can do two aerials in a SH keep in mind, so watch out for that.
Mario has N-air, Cape, and FLUDD on Ganondorf's recovery. N-air hits at a horizontal angle and has a long lasting hitbox, so it can interfere with recoveries from below effectively. Cape ***** your recovery moves if it hits you, and it also makes Mario REALLY GOOD at ledgestalling to hog the ledge. FLUDD stops Ganon's momentum, either destroying one of your recovery moves, or making you easy bait for a Cape.
Mario's Fireball means it's not always easy to get Flame Choke combos on him. If you're close enough though, if you read a Fireball, you can go for a Dash attack and plow right through it.
That's pretty much the bad part of the matchup. You have more range and KO power than he does, and that also gives Mario some significant problems.
Mario is also a character who suffers from RCO lag keep in mind (although I think he can do an aerial to reduce the landing lag he incurs). Mario is also able to punish a lot of things with his Up-B out of shield, so watch out for that too.
It's 6/4 in favor of Mario, but Ganon has better tools on the ground and can outspace Mario in the air, so it's not really that bad of a matchup.
Gleam
Smash Ace
I'm pretty certain, unless I've done something wrong that you can perfect shield the next Utilt. I've constantly been able to just hold the shield button and perfect shield the attack. I'm guessing I've done something wrong with Mario, or else I need to just press Up A like crazy.
EDIT-However, I am beginning to notice something. It seems at a certain position, if Ganondorf is right on top of Mario, he's easier to Utilt constantly. But when he's further away, for some reason its easier to Perfect Shield. Might just be me, but...eh?
EDIT-However, I am beginning to notice something. It seems at a certain position, if Ganondorf is right on top of Mario, he's easier to Utilt constantly. But when he's further away, for some reason its easier to Perfect Shield. Might just be me, but...eh?
Matt07
Smash Master
A2ZOMG got it pretty much on the dot. I'd also like to add that due to Mario's recovery being predictable, Ganon's shouldn't have too hard of a time hitting us with D-air. Also Mario has really bad range compared to you, so we like to use Fireballs to help us with our low range, and help approach, although they can be easily powershielded. Also watch out for FLUUD Induced Hit Lag, if you use your aerials too much we might use FLUUD to lag you, and you may get punished. All in all I think I'd give this match up 55:45 in Mario's favour?
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
I find A2ZOMG to be accurate, and I agree with him on every count.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
A2 pretty much got it. Even tho my post is pretty crude useless, but Upair binds are just so much fun on the old man winter ^o^
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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^What they said.
60:40 Mario's favor, but I'm honestly leaning on 65:35 since if Mario throws Ganon off, chances are he ain't coming back.
60:40 Mario's favor, but I'm honestly leaning on 65:35 since if Mario throws Ganon off, chances are he ain't coming back.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Sorry Kalm, you need to restart all match-up discussions now that Ganon can fly. 
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
Gimping Ganon's recovery with a fireball is too fun ^^
Mario_ 101
Smash Ace
ganon's recovery is fun to gimp with f air too kanzaki. XD
And Mario's recovery is fun to gimp with u-air, d-air, b-air, and f-air...
Something that I think we could include in match up summaries, is use moar DA, or save the DA. It seems kinda minuscule, but I think it's important. It has a lot of priority, so it can be really, really useful in Ganon's overall game. It can cut through SHs and aerials like butter, as well as projectiles and grounded moves.
On the other hand, when coupled with Gerudo (or not), it can be a very reliable kill move on characters who would otherwise be hard to KO.
Any thoughts
?
Something that I think we could include in match up summaries, is use moar DA, or save the DA. It seems kinda minuscule, but I think it's important. It has a lot of priority, so it can be really, really useful in Ganon's overall game. It can cut through SHs and aerials like butter, as well as projectiles and grounded moves.
On the other hand, when coupled with Gerudo (or not), it can be a very reliable kill move on characters who would otherwise be hard to KO.
Any thoughts
?
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Well, Mario isn't an incredibly hard character to KO, and those fireballs can be very annoying, so I suggest just using it at will. FLUDD does reduce it's effectiveness somewhat though...
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Ganon being able to fly might affect his game a bit, but it won't be a dramatic change.Sorry Kalm, you need to restart all match-up discussions now that Ganon can fly.
Do you mean that I should include "Gerudo to DA" or "Weather you should be saving DA or not in the current match-up", in the match-up summary?And Mario's recovery is fun to gimp with u-air, d-air, b-air, and f-air...
Something that I think we could include in match up summaries, is use moar DA, or save the DA. It seems kinda minuscule, but I think it's important. It has a lot of priority, so it can be really, really useful in Ganon's overall game. It can cut through SHs and aerials like butter, as well as projectiles and grounded moves.
On the other hand, when coupled with Gerudo (or not), it can be a very reliable kill move on characters who would otherwise be hard to KO.
Any thoughts
Anyway, I don't really have a clue about this match-up, since I never fought any 'good' Mario.
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
Ganon gimping Mario? Funny :]
Only thing I really fear is the down air, and if I'm recovering from above, a few fireballs lets me return safe :[
Ganon has to fear almost all of Mario's aerials and specials.
Only thing I really fear is the down air, and if I'm recovering from above, a few fireballs lets me return safe :[
Ganon has to fear almost all of Mario's aerials and specials.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Not really. Looks to me you haven't played any Ganon's worth declaring good.
Gleam
Smash Ace
There was a Lucas match up not to long ago here in which a designated 55:45 to 60:40 advantage Lucas was given. Now that was then and this is now, so there might be a difference now.
With two projectiles, it pretty certain that Ganondorf has to approach lucas. I don't see Lucas' Up B problematic as far as approaching goes, but PK fire yes. Luckily however unlike Ness, Lucas' PK fire doesn't have the momentum build up of damage. Usmash can be surprising and can keep Ganondorf from trying to do aerials above Lucas foolishly. Longer grab range (obviously) quicker attacks and less lag.
For Ganon, we have our basic set up. Ganondorf's longer reach, KO power and priority takes place. Ganon has a guaranteed Dtilt on Lucas as well. Luca's recovery is piss poor easy to gimp, even easier to gimp than Ganondorf's recovery. When comparing ground vs air, I kind of feel Ganondorf has the advantage on the ground, but with Lucas, the air is in his domain. I also find it kind of easy to connect hits on Lucas and get him off the edge. Then again, I'm sure that goes the same for the Lucas players.
With two projectiles, it pretty certain that Ganondorf has to approach lucas. I don't see Lucas' Up B problematic as far as approaching goes, but PK fire yes. Luckily however unlike Ness, Lucas' PK fire doesn't have the momentum build up of damage. Usmash can be surprising and can keep Ganondorf from trying to do aerials above Lucas foolishly. Longer grab range (obviously) quicker attacks and less lag.
For Ganon, we have our basic set up. Ganondorf's longer reach, KO power and priority takes place. Ganon has a guaranteed Dtilt on Lucas as well. Luca's recovery is piss poor easy to gimp, even easier to gimp than Ganondorf's recovery. When comparing ground vs air, I kind of feel Ganondorf has the advantage on the ground, but with Lucas, the air is in his domain. I also find it kind of easy to connect hits on Lucas and get him off the edge. Then again, I'm sure that goes the same for the Lucas players.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
I remember the Ganon Matchup quite well.
Swoops made a very nice summary of this matchup, which I will post here:
However, that was than, and this is now, and I know you guys are currently working on perfecting the flying Ganon. Honestly, I find the above summary accurate, but it's a question of whether or not the Flying Ganon makes a big enough difference to change the ratio.
Swoops made a very nice summary of this matchup, which I will post here:
However, that was than, and this is now, and I know you guys are currently working on perfecting the flying Ganon. Honestly, I find the above summary accurate, but it's a question of whether or not the Flying Ganon makes a big enough difference to change the ratio.