| The Tempest | Quick Scheduling Poll |

[Vyse]

I've got three different strategies for scheduling codenamed 'Comboturtle, Richard and I_LAG'

Important factors to consider:
- Expected entrants for Brawl is significantly larger than for Melee
- Brawl is a naturally slower game than Melee to run

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Comboturtle Strategy - AKA Rocky/SQUAT Strategy

Saturday:
Melee Doubles
Brawl Singles Bracket

Sunday:
Brawl Doubles
Melee Singles Bracket

Pros:
- Simple and effective
- Theoretically, it equally distributes events over both days

Cons:
- People tend not to show up for the doubles event of each day if they decide not to make that effort
- Assumes the same amount of people show up on both days, resulting in a rather lopsided and under utilised Sunday due to lack of numbers.

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Richard Strategy - AKA Thriller Strategy

Saturday:
Brawl Doubles
Brawl Pools
Melee Pools

Sunday:
Melee Doubles
Melee Singles Bracket
Brawl Singles Bracket

Pros:
- Both games are spaced over the two days
- Tournament ideally culminates to a Finals Sunday
- People remain refreshed, not having to deal with a doubles - pools - singles day.

Cons:
- Almost no motivation for Brawl players to come Sunday, missing out on watching the bracket
- Amount of people in attendance each day is somewhat lopsided (Again, Sunday is under utilised)
- Does not cater for Brawl's longer natural play time
__________________________________________________________

There's the first two strategies.

A recurring issue is under-utilising one day compared to the other. No matter what strategy I've employed over the last few years, I've found with two day events that the second day tends to finish quicker.

There's a few different things I'm catering for here. This includes the players that aren't a part of the competitive scene and just decide to sign up and see how they go, as well as the issues relating to maximising time.

__________________________________________________________

I_LAG Strategy - AKA Experimental Strategy

Saturday:
Brawl Pools
Brawl Singles Bracket
Crew Battle/Start Brawl Doubles

Sunday:
Brawl Doubles
Melee Doubles (Staggered start during Brawl Doubles)
Melee Pools
Melee Bracket

Pros:
- Both games are spaced over the two days keeping in mind significant expected numbers for Brawl
- Saturday emphasises Brawl Singles, keeping hype/interest centered on just this event
- Players should expect the singles Bracket to finish early enough for a crew battle

Cons:
- Sunday is packed!
- Assumes Melee will be quick to play out compared to Brawl (Less people + Quicker game historically)
- Newbies may not come Sunday and miss out on Doubles

Rationale

So you're probably thinking 'This is a terrible idea' and I'm somewhat inclined to agree, especially because this setup assumes ALOT about the expected attendance.

It's a gamble because:
1. If I fall well short of 70 entrants for Brawl, then a lot of time may be wasted on Saturday and those numbers of newbies I'm expecting probably won't turn up for Sunday which means a lost opportunity.

2. If 50+ people turn up for Melee I am screwed.

3. If both of these things happen I will have reached a level of sodomy no man should be forced to endure.

But on the other hand, think of the benefits.

1. A WHOLE DAY dedicated to just Brawl Singles. At the moment I estimate roughly 5 hours for Pools and 4 hours for the bracket. Add in lunch and we're done by roughly 8:30pm

Imagine if we add even Melee doubles or Brawl Doubles to that equation. It just doesn't work -> We'd be there til 11pm finishing finals for Brawl and by that time all the hype is gone. I really think Finals should happen at around the 8:30pm mark.

2. Sunday is properly utilised.

3hr Brawl doubles
2.5hr Melee doubles (Staggered start during Brawl Doubles)
3hr Melee Pools
3hr Melee Bracket

Ideally, Sunday will also run for roughly 10 hours (Doubles events should end roughly 4 hours after they Brawl Doubles begins).

I realise that this method is easy to criticise as well. It's not my attempt to emphasise Brawl or anything dumb like that. I just want to best maximise the time we have available and not run too late on each day.

One last option is using the remaining time on Saturday to start Brawl Doubles (which I crossed out). It would be something of an anti-climax, however it may also ease the strain significantly on Sunday (every little bit counts).

EDIT: Come to think of it. The flexibility of this plan allows me to decide on the fly whether crews should be axed or not and we start Brawl doubles on Saturday as well.

So I'll leave it up to you guys while I go try to do something more important like Uni work.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

you have 2 days, get your **** together.

 

[SummonerAU]

I voted for Comboturtle but I think I_LAG would work well if you got around expected numbers from pre-registration.

 

[Vyse]

Syke can you explain to me why you like the Rocky layout better than the others? I agree that it's a good idea and does work, I just don't like the idea of having all these people waiting around for Brawl singles just because of Melee Doubles.

Assuming 2.5 Hours for Melee Doubles then a lunch break means a 2pm start for Brawl, which is kinda lame, 9 hours later we have people dead tired trying to play out a finals match with an equally dead tired crowd around it.

The choices I have are put Melee doubles after Brawl Singles (LOLOLOLOL) or start earlier. Or just assume hardly anyone will turn up for Melee doubles.

 

[Dekar289]

2pm start for brawl is fine
you just actually have to run the tournament vyse, you know, like a tournament organizer would
then it will finish on time

 

[CAOTIC]

Vyse - Run friendly stations whilst the other game is being attended to.

Rocky schedule worked consistently well since they offered solutions to your 'cons' for Comboturtle:

" People tend not to show up for the doubles event of each day if they decide not to make that effort"
I scheduled for both Don't Come and Rocky, a morning event like dodgeball to get people to wake up earlier. It actually works, especially if people are accommodated close to the venue (ideally within walking distance to venue, which Rocky/Don't Come had by being placed in the CBD).

"Assumes the same amount of people show up on both days, resulting in a rather lopsided and under utilized Sunday due to lack of numbers."
I purposed charged a flat rate for Rocky which encouraged people to play both Melee and Brawl. This boosted numbers for both games and made things both watchable throughout and turnouts consistently high. Noone could say Saturday or Sunday were more attended than the other. They were both well supported days.

Hope that helps.

 

[S.D]

Thriller worked well. I think Melee doubles should be first day, as pools take longer than the bracket and melee teams is way faster. It also promotes a stronger brawl contingent on the sunday.

 

[Vyse]

@Dekar:

I am doing the maths on a 70 person tournament, and making allowances for 20 minutes per round of the bracket. (For Brawl)

In all of my maths I'm assuming a worst case scenario Brawl Pools + Bracket where every match goes to 20-30 minutes. Believe you me when I say I'm going to be running an extremely tight schedule.

 

[CAOTIC]

Thriller was great for Melee - dragged looooong for Brawl

 

[Attila_]

saturday: brawl + melee pools and doubles
sunday: bracket for both

get the lol stuff out of the way on the saturday, and get serious on sunday. and you might even finish on time.

 

[CAOTIC]

^ Saturday is way too packed there. ^

 

[Vyse]

Vyse - Run friendly stations whilst the other game is being attended to.

The plan is to have at least 2 Smash Friendly setups on at all times for the off game and 2 N64 Setups for side events.

I guess with Melee Doubles requiring less TV's, we'll be able to convert them to Brawl as they're not needed.

Rocky schedule worked consistently well since they offered solutions to your 'cons' for Comboturtle:

" People tend not to show up for the doubles event of each day if they decide not to make that effort"
I scheduled for both Don't Come and Rocky, a morning event like dodgeball to get people to wake up earlier. It actually works, especially if people are accommodated close to the venue (ideally within walking distance to venue, which Rocky/Don't Come had by being placed in the CBD).

"Assumes the same amount of people show up on both days, resulting in a rather lopsided and under utilized Sunday due to lack of numbers."
I purposed charged a flat rate for Rocky which encouraged people to play both Melee and Brawl. This boosted numbers for both games and made things both watchable throughout and turnouts consistently high. Noone could say Saturday or Sunday were more attended than the other. They were both well supported days.

Hope that helps.

I worry about charging a flat rate.
But then, the total they'd be paying is $20 so maybe it's a good idea.

@Atilla: In an ideal world maybe

 

[luke_atyeo]

2pm start for brawl is fine
you just actually have to run the tournament vyse, you know, like a tournament organizer would
then it will finish on time

this.

as good (or not) of a to as shaya is (man dont get me started...)

his 1 flaw is that he doenst keep on top of things, you know, keeping track of matches, when tv's are free, and being the one who says, "ok that tv is free, lets just look at the bracket here, ok player x and player y go play over there"

no matter how many times I explain it to him, he doesnt listern, although he's a winner in 1 regard, since he makes me the above stated things for him.


in other words, just stay on top of it vyse and it wont take a million hours.

 

[Attila_]

^ Saturday is way too packed there. ^

pretty sure that thriller had a spare 5 hours on the saturday... brawl doubles couldve been (almost) accomplished in that time... espc if tempest decides to start a little earlier and have 2 round pool sets (as standard).

 

[toki]

imo i dont really mind *bails*
But id like to do brawl singles on the 2nd day

 

[Vyse]

Believe me when I say I'll be keeping on people's butts the whole time.

I plan on using the station manager and following a schedule refined down to 20 minute intervals of what should be happening.

My maths tells me that assuming 20 minute sets, Brawl pools with 70 people will take roughly 5 hours and that a Brawl Singles Bracket will take 4 hours. This is the maximum time it will take mind you, I expect it to run quicker since I plan to have 2 TO's for each game (Aside from myself) and their primary duty will be keeping an eye on all pools/the bracket and making sure things are happening.

 

[Attila_]

you guys dont have warios in qld, do you? sets can (and do) take up to 24 minutes. unless they're the grand finals, which can take 40 minutes PER SET. silly qld, playing brawl properly like that.

 

[Vyse]

Normally we don't time out matches.
The only match I've seen go to time out here in recent times was Jesmo Vs. J-Birds.

Planning for Worst Case Scenarios and not assuming too much just seems like common sense to me.

 

[CAOTIC]

Attila - A spare 5 hours? Out the door at 1-2am?! It had a spare 2-3 hours realistically, meaning it could have snuck in one more events - not 2.

 

[tibs7]

brawl must be played on the sunday, melee on saturday. Singles that is. That's the real schedule for eocy anyway

 

[Toby.]

For every match that goes to full time there will be plenty of scrubs getting ***** in a minute or two as well :D

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

think your expectations on attendance are a but high laddy.

 

[xXArrowXx]

you got my vote ilag =) its realistic.. ide have the option of squeezing brawl doubles into day 1 tho whateva. dont really like switching games on the day :S also might only be able to come one day

 

[Pantsmann]

if one day is under-utilized, put crews on that day.

 

[D.J Cat]

Thrill her.

I think your original plan that you told us was good, but whatever makes people happy.
I'll overanalyse later if i cbf.

 

[Vyse]

Ye of little faith Syke, history shows it's entirely possible as long as we try.

As much as I like I_LAG, Comboturtle has a history of doing well. Even though we are switching from one game to another, you're switching from Melee DOUBLES to Brawl SINGLES. They are two somewhat different mindsets anyway.

Going to leave this open for more input and opinions/flaming of me.


EDIT: Also, I'm dissappointed that nobody has figured out the joke implied by the code names yet (unless they have).

 

[Sieg]

I have no idea what Combo_turtle is.

But Richard = ****

I_LAG = Scar?

 

[Aussierob123]

history shows that the tournament on the gold coast acheived an attendance of 69 brawl players, me thinks it may have something to do with the venue being more accessible for many people which is why brawl buddies had such high attendance, however lansmash has never had that high numbers so being REALISTIC, and looking at past numbers, I can't see it trumping or even really matching brawl buddies, ESPECIALLY since (no offense antho) this national seems to have sprung up out of nowhere giving out of staters less time to prepare.

that said, I like rocky set up because it is the biggest promoter for having the most people on both days. There's no reason for any of the "noobs" as you would suggest to come on sunday if they can't even get out of pools on saturday, which would suck because they would miss out on the real hype behind the game(s).

 

[Vyse]

history shows that the tournament on the gold coast acheived an attendance of 69 brawl players, me thinks it may have something to do with the venue being more accessible for many people which is why brawl buddies had such high attendance, however lansmash has never had that high numbers so being REALISTIC, and looking at past numbers, I can't see it trumping or even really matching brawl buddies, ESPECIALLY since (no offense antho) this national seems to have sprung up out of nowhere giving out of staters less time to prepare.

That is is because no tournament in Queensland History had been advertised as hard as Queensland Brawl Buddies. SQUAT for instance had no where near the same amount of effort put into it as QBB, I organised that tournament knowing I wouldn't see the same kinds of numbers just because of lack of advertising.

The thing with QBB was that during that time I was working full time, with no real commitment to study or anything else to distract me.

This time around I am working extremely hard, hand in hand with Game Traders Browns Plains and other available avenues to work towards getting those numbers and more. I am meeting with their reps on an almost weekly basis to negotiate new avenues of support and strategies to make Tempest successful, whereas all I did for SQUAT was hand out a few posters.

Something I'd like to ask everyone is to help me instead of doubt me. Tell your friends, think of people who could possibly come and get them to come. Get them interested, link them here. There is absolutely no undefeatable reason why we couldn't hit that magical 70 player cap as long as you all help me.

This tournament didn't come out of anywhere. It's still more than two and a half months away and I've had this tournament in planning for even longer than that. (Since well before Thriller). I made the conscious decision not to announce it because I didn't want to encroach on the spotlight of Thriller, though I can see that was something of a mistake.

SQUAT with minimal organising on my part (I had a couple of chances to hand out posters) got 50 people. Advertising in stores and various other places more than 2 months ahead of time should net me more than that. In my experience, advertising in stores and other places, along as there's enough time for it to sit there and expose our tournament, has been the most effective way to do it.

For the life of me, I can't understand why people doubt the idea of 70 people coming to The Tempest.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

realistically you should base your schedule on around 50 players and have a back up schedule in the unlikely case of 70+ people.

 

[Vyse]

Okay, well 70 is still my goal, but the sign ups will indicate one way or another how tight the scheduling needs to be.

Either way you've all convinced me to settle on the Comboturtle strategy.
Sieg is close to figuring out the joke btw.

 

[SummonerAU]

Tom **** and Harry.

 

[Sieg]

Three tunnels of fail.

BUT WHICH ONE IS THE SAFE TUNNEL?

Hint: It's not Tom.

CALL ME MAJOR ZERO.

 

[emery]

Anyone looking for a Doubles partner?

 

[Vyse]

Ask in the stickied discussion thread mate. Not here.