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Social The Suburbs of Onett - Ness Social Thread

Earthbound360

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I'm going to guess.. Starbombs Smash song?

Now, to try and get things directed back to good old Ness. What's the latest thing you've incorporated into your strategy? I've started getting greedy with PKT2 more often aswell as working on spotdodging more often to get those sweet backthrow punishes.
I've been coming to the realiziation that bair is much more useful than I had originally thought. In a game where shield grabs and OoS punishes in general are really powerful, bair proves to be the hardest aerial for people to punish on block, even moreso than a fade back fair.

The pushback on shield is enormous (if you sweetspot it), the recovery upon landing is very short (second only to uair I think), and Ness lies down after landing with it. That might seem irrelevant, but you'd be surprised at how many grabs he slips under just because his hurtbox is so low to the ground. The pushback is pretty noticeable on characters that slide a lot on shield. Luigi has a really hard time punishing it because he slides really far and his grab goes right over Ness when he lies down. But even outside the obviously slippery luigi, characters like Marth and Mario also slide back a good distance, making it difficult for them to punish. These characters have to powershield the bairs to punish it, but then you can whip out the early nair to throw them off.

As of late, I've been going into my offense against very defensive players backwards (as in RARing). It also helps that bair does a ton of damage on hit too. Give it a shot against people who play very defensively.

On an unrelated note, I just took first at a local tournament, as well as 4th again at another S@X tourney :)
 

V1cegrip

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Hi Luco, Oh cool you secondary him. ya he's a lot of fun and can do a lot of surprising things. and yay gj earthbound360 with placings, does it feel good having ness be so effective this game? He was effective last game too, just held back by grab release mainly along with a few bad matchups.
 

V1cegrip

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Hi Luco, Oh cool you secondary him. ya he's a lot of fun and can do a lot of surprising things. and yay gj earthbound360 with placings, does it feel good having ness be so effective this game? He was effective last game too, just held back by grab release mainly along with a few bad matchups.
 

Earthbound360

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Hi Luco, Oh cool you secondary him. ya he's a lot of fun and can do a lot of surprising things. and yay gj earthbound360 with placings, does it feel good having ness be so effective this game? He was effective last game too, just held back by grab release mainly along with a few bad matchups.
Thanks buddy. And of course it feels good! XD
We need you back on our side though D:
If at the very least, I demand you swing by the boards every now and then and socialize with us lol.
 

Noa.

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I've been coming to the realiziation that bair is much more useful than I had originally thought. In a game where shield grabs and OoS punishes in general are really powerful, bair proves to be the hardest aerial for people to punish on block, even moreso than a fade back fair.

The pushback on shield is enormous (if you sweetspot it), the recovery upon landing is very short (second only to uair I think), and Ness lies down after landing with it. That might seem irrelevant, but you'd be surprised at how many grabs he slips under just because his hurtbox is so low to the ground. The pushback is pretty noticeable on characters that slide a lot on shield. Luigi has a really hard time punishing it because he slides really far and his grab goes right over Ness when he lies down. But even outside the obviously slippery luigi, characters like Marth and Mario also slide back a good distance, making it difficult for them to punish. These characters have to powershield the bairs to punish it, but then you can whip out the early nair to throw them off.

As of late, I've been going into my offense against very defensive players backwards (as in RARing). It also helps that bair does a ton of damage on hit too. Give it a shot against people who play very defensively.

On an unrelated note, I just took first at a local tournament, as well as 4th again at another S@X tourney :)
I completely agree with Bair. It's so useful and very safe on shield when you sweet spot it. It kills pretty early as well. I use Bair to punish people when they go for a ledge getup or ledge attack all the time. Bair and dsmash are the moves I use most often when edge guarding. <3 Bair

And congrats on winning a tournament. And then getting 4th!

Today I myself got 3rd at a 42 man tournament.
 

Luco

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I completely agree with Bair. It's so useful and very safe on shield when you sweet spot it. It kills pretty early as well. I use Bair to punish people when they go for a ledge getup or ledge attack all the time. Bair and dsmash are the moves I use most often when edge guarding. <3 Bair

And congrats on winning a tournament. And then getting 4th!

Today I myself got 3rd at a 42 man tournament.
Congrats on getting back into the consistent 'top 3' groove Noa! :p

I also LOVE Bair and when spaced right it really feels near unpunishable hahaha, it's a very good move, something I've used for a very long time in this game and in Brawl is pivoting right before a jump (which cancels the frames on the pivot, it's really cool) so my back is facing the opponent. ^_^
 

PSIBoy

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Excuse me, I have a request since the Ness boards are a rather kind bunch. I want someone to tutor my Ness. I consider myself a decent player at least, but if someone could tutor my Ness I would really appreciate it. So can someone please help me? I won't be available tonight, but the weekends work best for me and the weekdays are tougher because of school, but I might be able to play afterward depending on homework.
 

Earthbound360

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Excuse me, I have a request since the Ness boards are a rather kind bunch. I want someone to tutor my Ness. I consider myself a decent player at least, but if someone could tutor my Ness I would really appreciate it. So can someone please help me? I won't be available tonight, but the weekends work best for me and the weekdays are tougher because of school, but I might be able to play afterward depending on homework.
I wouldn't mind doing it if school and my new job weren't taking up most of my time (even if you could probably find better people here to learn from). Still, if you wanna add me and play when you see me online, I wouldn't mind.

But if I may make a suggestion, how about you record some matches and post em to the critique thread? You might learn a few things there.
 

PSIBoy

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I wouldn't mind doing it if school and my new job weren't taking up most of my time (even if you could probably find better people here to learn from). Still, if you wanna add me and play when you see me online, I wouldn't mind.

But if I may make a suggestion, how about you record some matches and post em to the critique thread? You might learn a few things there.
I don't have a YouTube account nor a capture card. I guess I could use a video camera though, and one of these days I'll get my own email and then I'll register my account. But thanks for the offer.
 

Earthbound360

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Yannow, I feel like Ness is headed for mid tier eventually. Looking back on Apex, there wasn't enough Ness presence to put him in top. NAKAT also seems to have dropped Ness for Fox. Ness also just doesn't have the matchups to justify high placement anymore. He doesn't have good matchups against the top dogs Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy, and Sonic. And I still stand by my early mentality that Ness' tricks can be figured out and he exploited for his weaknesses pretty well (eg. getting hit by PKT2 recovery and stageteching to gimp, DIing PKF, etc.).

I'm still expecting him to possibly end up in the upper mid, but I don't think his tier placement has been rising as of late. If anything, I feel like it's falling.
 
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Screk

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Tournament experince at Arcade Odyssey my Local

Match 1 was a Ness Ditto ( I don't remember his name cause it was super long ) I won 2 - 1 . I than played Kipa a pikachu main and got destroyed by him. My final match was against a guy named Johnny ( Not sure if that's his real name ) who played megaman and bodied me with a wall of projectiles. So I won only one set up I feel good about losing because it just gives me more fuel to get better and made new friends :D !
 
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NAKAT

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Guys please do not spread false rumors. I went Ness just as much as Fox if not more at Apex I just never got stream time to show it. I did not drop Ness. I main Ness, Fox, and Pikachu.

Ness is no where near falling wth....
 
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Earthbound360

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Lol, guess I oughta be a bit more careful with my sources. I heard only of your Fox at Apex from others. They implied that you pretty much only used Fox.

But still, no Ness players made it into top 8 at Apex, just a bunch of Diddy's, Sheik, Rosalina, and... a Pac Man. And I still think he struggles with too many of the top tiers (and I feel it only becomes more and more apparent as time goes on). With these guys running amok so much, it's gonna be hard on the little guy.

Cool to see FOW's Ness runner up doubles though.
 
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V1cegrip

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A lot of characters have nice options out of grab o just killing throws in general this game (like Sonic) as compared to last game. This kind of makes Ness less special in that regard, but he is still basically the best when it comes to grabs killing and having a killing grab is HUGE in this game. That attribute alone makes Ness pretty solid. Also his small frame is a nice trait to have. I'll try and participate in the Ness boards, I still like to follow the Ness mains and see how the character is doing. I May even still use him against like Lucario or someone that needs to be reliably killed. How does Ness do vs Lucario? One of Jr's weaknesses is reliable kills and that seems very important to have vs Lucario.
 
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Earthbound360

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If it's reliable kills you want, you've come to the right place ;)

Not too sure of the Lucario matchup as of now though. If I get to play a good one enough I'll get back to you on that.
 

Qoo

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does anyone else have trouble fighting samus?? predicting charge blast is hard if they mindgame well and using psi magnet too often gets punished..

inb4 fsmash for charge blast and missiles
 

Noa.

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The most important aspect of being high tier is having the capability to win a national. I don't see Ness ever falling out of that capability. Obviously it's impossible to know what the meta will be like in four or five years, but I find it difficult to imagine Ness losing that capability.

Ness's biggest strengths are his kill power, combo game, and high damage per hit relative to how fast his moves are. These advantages are so fundamental and basic. It's very unlikely that people will learn how to best handle these traits. And pk thunde juggles I think are going to get more consistent over time, and more damaging. I don't think that there is much room to develop ways to play against the pk Thunder.

And Ness does have a lot of small losses to other high and top tier characters. But so did Olimar in brawl. Olimar lost to MK, Icies, Falco, and Marth. But Olimar is still a top tier cause he's a very strong character that can win against all these bad matchups. Ness is capable of the same thing. None of his matchups are that bad. Sonic, and Diddy I expect to get better over time. A lot of it right now is that there is not much knowledge on how to correctly punish these two characters, because the windows for punishment are so strict.
 

yoshi8984

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So I had some funny things happen while playing lol (excuse the amount of clips I'mma show, not trying to advertise or anything)

1 - I didn't know Ness' Fair could spike... I knew about some of the multi-hitting ones (i.e. Fox) but not Ness'. o.o

2 - Combo Vid for Timmy confirmed? :D

3 - Making FOW proud! :D
^What I'm referring to.

I really wish I had a Wii U though so I could record replays with my capture card and not have a stupid replay limit of 64 like the 3DS. =P
 
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Noa.

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So I had some funny things happen while playing lol (excuse the amount of clips I'mma show, not trying to advertise or anything)

1 - I didn't know Ness' Fair could spike... I knew about some of the multi-hitting ones (i.e. Fox) but not Ness'. o.o

2 - Combo Vid for Timmy confirmed? :D

3 - Making FOW proud! :D
^What I'm referring to.

I really wish I had a Wii U though so I could record replays with my capture card and not have a stupid replay limit of 64 like the 3DS. =P
Those are some nice replays. I've never seen that combo that FOW did. It was pretty spectacular haha.
 

Earthbound360

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Dang those were pretty great. I've seen a GIF of that FOW combo before, but I was more impressed by that recovery he made. A reverse PKT recovery wall bounce O_o

Sadly, fair, fair, doesn't actually combo into dair. I've tested it many times, opponents can air dodge out if they see it coming. Still fun to try every now and then, but I wouldn't rely on it in tournament. If you do get it though, swag points.

Also on fair, I've noticed that it can spike in the first few hits. Ness' fair got nerfed in every way except for its knockback, which I'm at least very happy about. Those sparkles drag you WITH ness, pretty much no matter which way he's going. If he's going down, so are you. So if you cancel the last hit somehow (landing, getting hit), they just keep going down. I've gimped people trying to recover on stage with a fast falled fair, cancelled by landing right at the ledge. Give it a try sometime if the opportunity presents itself. You need to have a follow up move though, I recommend stagespike aerials.
 

Meccs

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Guys please do not spread false rumors. I went Ness just as much as Fox if not more at Apex I just never got stream time to show it. I did not drop Ness. I main Ness, Fox, and Pikachu.

Ness is no where near falling wth....
Your Ness had plenty of airtime doubles! You and FOW are inspirations. Just curious, as somebody who is trying to pickup Pikachu as a secondary (I only play Ness right now), would you say Pikachu has a good matchup against Sonic? I have an incredibly tough time against Sonic, I feel like Ness matches up horribly against him and I just can't handle him to the point where I need a secondary for him- Sonic is the only character I feel that way about. Pikachu is one of the few other characters in this game I enjoy using, so I was hoping he might cover my Sonic weakness.

And welcome back Clint! Lot's of people from Brawl are back!

I also believe Ness will be consistently high tier in this game. He is good, he can compete. Not top tier (unless the update nerfs Rosa/Sonic/Sheik/Diddy) but like Noa said, he has all the potential needed to win a major.
 
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PSIBoy

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Tested all of Ness's moves: I noticed no damage difference, but I've neglected knockback since I cannot estimate too well in that regard. In fact, all I noticed different really is that replays, photos, and Miis are now shareable, all old replays are unplayable, and possibly improved Wario AI.
 

Meccs

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Yeah whoops I'm dumb and made a topic about it before reading this, don't think there are any differences at all. I guess our best hope as far as patches go is that Ness is left untouched while Diddy/Sonic/Sheik are brought down slightly to his level.
 
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PKBeam

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maybe it'll be Sheik this time with the grab release.
eheheheh, i'd love to release her into our Usmash this time...
 
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Earthbound360

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I think that if we Ness mains find anything really dirty with Ness, we should shut up about it until patches are done ;)
 

Luco

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Ahah, I always stick to original colour Ness hahaha :D

I'll get my brother to update to 1.05, in the meantime it's good that we haven't been changed, tbh all I want atm is the top tiers getting a few small nerfs, I think Ness is probably fine as he is, he's about as powerful a character as you'd want I think ^_^
 
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