The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*

[infomon]

Yeah I think the grab box on her grab is weird, like it's not out the whole time.

 

[Tenki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWnKEYy9GZU

There, 1:28.

Tell me why!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209326
number 3

its just the forward momentum of the special

It's not even that.

Sonic just double jumped out of his special... lol.

So... I did a Side Taunt and ZSS's grab went right through it.

Kinda like in this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1XMOLixxjA

It's more epic than we thought. ^_^

FAIL.​

 

[~TBS~]

what in THE WORLD IS THIS? FAIL? but yeah. ZSS's whip really went through me while playing a friend then i fsmashed her and side taunt. and @ tenki, i knew it wasnt a spinshot with momentum. if you really look close enough, you can see that he just double jumped and dashed...

 

[da K.I.D.]

point is, even if its not spinshot, if you jump while in a spin special you have more forward momentum

 

[~TBS~]

thanks for clearing that up. I thought he just dashed. so side b> jump> moar forward momentum. so even if he did dash, according to what KID said, he got a little momentum, but dashed, so it would be hard to spot it, right?

 

[infomon]

Are you still talking about the vid that Kalm linked (Kojin's combo vid)?

It was down-B (ASC) toward the wall of Yoshi's Island, and a double-jump out of it. But the interesting part is that he's still in flames from the PK fire, because he used ASC during a time when you'd normally be in hitstun, which is why it looks really cool

 

[Jim Morrison]

So, first hit of U-air has set knockback (truth). This can be useful especially useful on certain characters. Do a grounded spring which they will land on. They will fly up with you. Imagine Anti-thingy combo, but started with first hit of U-air. This doesn't work on heavy/big characters, like Bowser or Crapton Flacon. This works extremely on Mario and characters like him. He immedeatly gets on the spring after the hit up. You and Mario go up synchronized. U-air from the spring doesn't work on him, N-air, D-air and B-air do though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

wait a minute...

So, first hit of U-air has set knockback (truth). This can be useful especially useful on certain characters. Do a grounded spring which they will land on. They will fly up with you. Imagine Anti-thingy combo, but started with first hit of U-air. This doesn't work on heavy/big characters, like Bowser or Crapton Flacon. This works extremely on Mario and characters like him. He immedeatly gets on the spring after the hit up. You and Mario go up synchronized. U-air from the spring doesn't work on him, N-air, D-air and B-air do though.

HOLY FACKING SHIZ THIS IS EFFING GOLD!!!!

THIS IS AMAZING.

YOU SIR ARE A GENIUS.

 

[Tenki]

I don't think it's set knockback.

It's close, but not really :3

 

[da K.I.D.]

it might be based on what part of the hitbox you hit with.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, Tenki, this is set. It has the same knockback at 999% as 0%. KID stfu =.=

 

[Tenki]

No, Tenki, this is set. It has the same knockback at 999% as 0%.

hax.

well, if you really tested 999 and 0 and I can't confirm it for myself atm,

okay.

 

[Jim Morrison]

One problem. If you approach with it from the side, it doesn´t knock them up, but a bit diagonal

 

[Browny]

remember that glitch (i think kojin did it) on yoshis island where he hyphen smashed at the very edge of yoshis island, and it instantly changed into a nair as he flew off the stage?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Op1iF4rvqzQ
me losing my second stock in the Delfino match (i was at 20% when it happened) i think the delfino one is the second match. i cant view it @ work so cant give exact time. Ive forgotten whether we found out what caused it, so im gonna ask again lol. only this time theres no sloped edges to help explain it

 

[Camalange]

I believe we decided that there was some kind of "shield push" where the opponent puts up like a frame perfect shield and somehow "pushes" Sonic's hyphen smash. Thus causing him to go offstage in the Usmash ball animation.

I'll watch your video though to see if it looks like the same scenario.

EDIT: Yup, the shield knocked Sonic offstage. But in this case though, it looked like he was knocked out of the Usmash animation too. The last case of it we saw Sonic just fly right of the stage >_<

 

[da K.I.D.]

i almost stopped watching when I saw ganon up tilt 3 times in one stock without dying.

 

[Browny]

wtf is your point. how am i supposed to KO ganon every time he uptilts when hes doing it at low %'s? id think a grab + pummel + throw is the most damaging punishing option sonics has.

seriously wtf

 

[da K.I.D.]

he was high enough to kill with a charged smash.

dont get mad at me...
you let him get away with it twice without punishment, he also had you shook when it came to gimping him...

 

[Browny]

I was already 1 set down before those matches were recorded (since he knocked me out of winners finals) I wasnt about to push my luck trying to gimp him when he can ganoncide me lol, it wasnt worth the risk.

 

[da K.I.D.]

spring gimping is always worth the risk, because there is no risk. and even if he comes back, he has 4 more damage, which can be crucial

 

[ShadowLink84]

Dj i laughed when you lt him get away with that utilt on BF. you were in a perfect situation and you continued charging the down B.

Eh don't worry aout it too much, we do things when we feel pressured.
Like the great Mike Tyson said.
"everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouf"

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

I was messing with ASC the other day and while working on different timings for jumping off the opponent, I noticed that you could foot stool the opponent out of it.

So I was wondering if you could set up a jab lock with this, like the side b one? Except with ASC instead of spin dash. I won't be able to do any testing until later and I'm still getting reacustomed to Brawl's physics again, so if this isn't already known any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[da K.I.D.]

theres no reason not to be able to do it, either with a spring down air or just an instant down air.

gonna try to do it when i play tomarrow

 

[~TBS~]

i still am skeptical about dair. isn't the lag too much to to the lock, KID?

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

That's what I figured KID. But I won't be able to see for myself until later. But I think this would be a slightly easier way to do it then with spindash imo.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I believe we decided that there was some kind of "shield push" where the opponent puts up like a frame perfect shield and somehow "pushes" Sonic's hyphen smash. Thus causing him to go offstage in the Usmash ball animation.

I'll watch your video though to see if it looks like the same scenario.

EDIT: Yup, the shield knocked Sonic offstage. But in this case though, it looked like he was knocked out of the Usmash animation too. The last case of it we saw Sonic just fly right of the stage >_<

The older one happened on FD if I remember correctly (which I do). We never figured out what that was and never managed to recreate it. It looked somewhat worthless but if it was a smash cancel then it might be anything but worthless. Still, we'll never know until one of you d-bags with a wii tests this and figures out what's going on.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Ok after a little testing, yes you can jablock with ASC with the spring. I didn't test it without it yet. But what makes this set up better than side b (besides that I think ASC's easier to use to set it up) is that this jab lock can be done even with your opponent in the air! I don't have anyone to hit the jump button for me so I did the airial one in training mode. Stale moves should make it work Better, not worse, anyway.

You can't footstool with an ASC without your second jump and I don't know how high up this will work because I don't know the length of the helpless animation from a footstool jump. I also think the fall speed of characters could come into play the higher up you are,at least if the spring is used.

I need some other people with better recources (and people to play offline XD) to check this out. This could be kinda awsome.

Spoiler

maybe...

 

[Tenki]

the side-B >jablock setup works with ASC too. The thing is, it's a little 'tougher' to start it out of ASC because of ASC's knockback (it makes them go into that sliding hitstun phase like Dedede's D-throw if their % is too high)

Also, the spring only acts as a 'jab' up til 20-30% (I forgot ? lol haven't tried in forever)

The main things to make sure the jablock setup works is:
- Your opponent can't airdodge or attack before he lands
- Your spring hits them to the side + your D-air lands near them without actually hitting.
- Your opponent is sent into the 'bounce' state (low knockback moves on grounded opponents only)

Whether you use side-B or ASC doesn't really matter. You just have to make sure that your footstool isn't too high and that your spring doesn't hit too early so that you either hit the D-air or take too long to be able to jab.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

I don't think you're getting what I said. :/

The thing about ASC's jablock is that your opponent can be in the Air and still be caught in the jab lock. Side B's jablock can only be done on the Ground as far as I know.(is that untrue? Can you jablock with side B in the air as well?)

I'll need to do it some more but I'm sure if I hit the jump button Immediatly after the ASC's initial hit,the opponent went straight down..

Also I realize this will only work near the beggining of a match/stock. But I'll take a free big junk of damage dealing whenever I can get it.

 

[Tenki]

Side B jablock can oly be done on the ground as far as I know.(is that untrue? Can you jablock with side B in the air as well?)

Yes.

:l

it's just preferrable to do side-B ground jablock setups because it pops you up near your opponent's head instead of having to aim an ASC towards their head. In the air, I bet it'd be easier to do ASC.

But if you do a midair jablock setup then you'd have to worry about when your spring hits your opponent and alot of weird stuff liek if they DI to the side and dodge the spring.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

They can DI while in the "footstooled" helpless falling state?

 

[Tenki]

of course they can o_O;

Try it on a Wario and you'll see it.

though, if you aim an ASC perfectly on a grounded person's head, you'll catch them with a footstool as soon as it hits, and it'll ground them right there.

The problem is the spring would hit and they'd be able to recover because they spend more time on the ground while you try to get to autocancel height.

the jablock setup needs to have this perfect timing and spacing between opponent falling, spring hitting, and D-airing so you don't interrupt it while being able to jab as soon as you land.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Thx for the help Tenki. (:

*goes back into hiding,never to be heard of again until the next lame idea* XD

 

[Kinetik07]

I need someone to test this out for me(don't have access to brawl atm):

-Stand at the left edge on FD and face left.
-jump and hold left.
-when you reach ground level, do a spinshot leftwards.
-If you aren't off screen by now, hold left until you are.

At this point you should be off screen and at about ground level without a double jump. Now try recovering by holding right and spring jumping before you die at the bottom of the screen.

You should have died at the bottom even with the spring.

Now, do the same thing again, except instead of holding right as soon as you reach off screen, spring jump first then hold right. Your position should be spring jump's height above ground and tumbling towards the edge.

You should have made it to the edge or past it.

My point? Spring jumping early cancels the leftward momentum produced by spinshot and allows you to recover without a double jump.

The downside is that you have no choice but to hold right and are vulnerable to enemy attacks. Your only options are Fair and airdoge. If you attack or dodge when you're tumbling down to the edge you'll miss it and die, unless you make it past the edge. No defense in Uair and bair because you're falling down and towards the stage. Can't use Nair because you're holding right and can't do Dair unless you wanna die.

This is more of a last resort if you find yourself off screen, at or below ground level, and without a second jump or a way of ensuring your recovery if you plan to assault the enemy off screen with a homing attack or something. Try it.

EDIT: oh and I'm sorry if this is already known, it is kinda common sense. I've just seen too many people die by trying to recover with the spring jump as the last step when they could have made it by spring jumping early.

 

[Jim Morrison]

If you mean doing turnaround spring to get more momentum, yea it's useful.

 

[Tenki]

o_O;

To an extent. From a spring alone, you'll cover the most horizontal distance if you're level or higher than the platform that you're trying to reach.

If you DO have a double jump, side-B>double jump > spring will always always always get you back.

 

[Kinetik07]

Perfect example right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-uObaAY0C0
at 2:42 fox bairs sonic off screen and sonic is left with no double jump. If he spring jumped as soon as he gained control, he would have made it back. Not saying that he wouldn't have been kicked back out by fox most likely, but it gives him a second chance.

 

[Tenki]

Yeah. That was a bad choice on his part. I don't think he realized he didn't have a double jump until it was too late lol.

though I doubt he would have made it. If he F-aired as soon as he got sent off the level, then maybe he might have been able to spring back ;3

 

[Kinetik07]

I think he would have at least made it to the edge, if not pretty close to it. Either way, it would have been much closer than waiting till later to use the spring.

My point proven, looks like you already knew about it. I was wondering if you guys use it after a long off stage attack that uses your second jump like me. Because when I found out about it, killing people became easier when I became more comfortable going far offstage instead of waiting for them to come back and attempt an edgeguard.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you are in that sitch, I just want it to be known that you can back air as a way to defend yourself on your way back to the stage, since sonics whole body and the disjoint of his foot have a hit box for the back air

you can see it in accelerromania JBs last vid at 6:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL6HKOwO2eA


p.s.1:45 in that vid proves my point before about being able to cancel spinshots on stationary platforms